---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/01/08: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:10 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (GARY PENNINGTON) 2. 06:21 AM - Fastest customer completion (Mark Stauffer) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (WILLIAM O FISHER) 4. 07:10 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Rick Bowen) 5. 09:10 AM - From the factory...comments on the news letter. (flylightning) 6. 10:08 AM - Re: From the factory...comments on the news letter. (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 7. 01:30 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 8. 01:47 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (flylightning) 9. 01:57 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 10. 02:17 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (n5pb@AOL.COM) 11. 02:18 PM - spoken in haste (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 12. 02:35 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 13. 03:09 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (flylightning) 14. 03:23 PM - Re: Fastest customer completion (GARY PENNINGTON) 15. 03:40 PM - (GARY PENNINGTON) 16. 05:31 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Colin J. Kennedy) 17. 06:23 PM - Engine idle speed set too low (EAFerguson@AOL.COM) 18. 06:40 PM - Re: Fastest customer completion (EAFerguson@aol.com) 19. 06:50 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Mark Stauffer) 20. 06:55 PM - Re: Fastest customer completion (Mark Stauffer) 21. 07:01 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low () 22. 07:46 PM - Re: Fastest customer completion (Wayne Lenox) 23. 08:01 PM - Re: Fastest customer completion (Mark Stauffer) 24. 11:12 PM - Re: flap usage (AVN100@AOL.COM) 25. 11:27 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (selwyn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:30 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Thanks Buz and thanks to all who commented for their kind words. Have a great day. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Great job, Gary, and a good looking "jet" you have there. One thing to try on the gear leg shimmy is to lower the main gear air pressure to 25 to 28 psi and see if that helps. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:12 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Congratulations to Gary Pennington on his first flight. Gary's is the 36th Lightning to fly. On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. Gary has a beautiful plane and we wish him many happy hours flying it. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:18 AM PST US From: "WILLIAM O FISHER" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Gary: CONGRATULATIONS! ! ! On your first flight Gary, Oh, and your plane and instrument panel look great too! Bill Fisher N838BF Now located at Glendale, AZ (GEU) with about 90 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY PENNINGTON To: lightning-list Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Airworthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now, a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:21 AM PST US From: Rick Bowen Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Congrats Gary! Beautiful looking Lightning! Rick N727RB ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY PENNINGTON Sent: Sunday=2C November 30=2C 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Air worthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now=2C a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning=2C I completed another thorough inspection and the n performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS=2C EFIS and the other bla ck boxes. I'm not really computer challenged=2C but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks=2C I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety=2C I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builde rs experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So=2C I continued accelerating. At around 55=2C I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind=2C I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also =2C the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advi ce. After turning final=2C I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it t urned out=2C the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the thresh old and lots of runway ahead=2C so=2C I just set it down and rolled out. Th e transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward=2C I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning=2C I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for intereste d parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington _________________________________________________________________ Get more done=2C have more fun=2C and stay more connected with Windows Mobi le=AE. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:45 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: Lightning-List: From the factory...comments on the news letter. Buz, Great and informative as always. A few comments. First landing on the moon inverted was hard I had to consult with the guys down under as they know how to land upside down!!! Also yes the Mini inspired Lightning is well a thought but not sure what questar venture will say, had enough trouble with the guys at lancair! Any ways lots of good stuff in there, Yes bear I know the tip is to "not to believe everything you read" Mark and Mike keep me well reminded of that, as you may have picked up is the RTFM and WTFM conversations, I let the imagination think about what that means but usually starts with " we don't build it that way any more" and ends with after a few words, "fine I will update the manual" just good banter. Another great installment as usual and well worth the read. Please everyone, Dealers, builders, pilots, keep the articles coming as with out them we would not have this to look forward to every month. Nick Otterback ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:03 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: From the factory...comments on the news letter. Hey Buz: I repeat what Nick said (another great installment) Terrific job, keep up the great work Lynn Nelsen In a message dated 12/1/2008 12:13:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, info@flylightning.net writes: Buz, Great and informative as always. A few comments. First landing on the moon inverted was hard I had to consult with the guys down under as they know ho w to land upside down!!! Also yes the Mini inspired Lightning is well a thought but not sure what questar venture will say, had enough trouble with the guys at lancair! Any ways lots of good stuff in there, Yes bear I know the tip is to =9Cnot to believe everything you read=9D Mark and Mike keep me well reminded of that, as you may have picked up is the RTFM and WTFM conversations, I let the imagination th ink about what that means but usually starts with =9C we don=99t b uild it that way any more=9D and ends with after a few words, =9Cfine I will up date the manual=9D just good banter. Another great installment as usual and well worth the read. Please everyone , Dealers, builders, pilots, keep the articles coming as with out them we would not have this to look forward to every month. Nick Otterback (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. m00000002) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:53 PM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good Job GARY!!! I have to smile at your first flight challenges! My first flight in a Lightning was complete with 1) takeoff into low level scud layer that seemed higher when viewed from the ground, 2) engine quiting on a climbout after simulated approach to an air strip I did not want to land at...because there was no place to go if the engine quit 3) EIS numbers that meant nothing to me 4) banging my right leg with full control travel 5) a landing complete with the hope that it would touch down sometime...since I was out of control movements. When you read the first flight stuff in magazines, they always seem to have no problems. In the real world, that isnt the case. Actually my second and third flights had some dumb stuff happen too, from having a gas cap try to escape, having the rudder peddles go the the floor on takeoff because the adjuster spring was too flimsy, having the engine shut down on final because the idle was set too low and more confusion over the EIS. We had vibration too, but that was of a more minor issue. There is a reason they call it "experimental" Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 11/30/2008 7:12:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:18 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Doug, I can think of a few comments but none worth sharing. Nick Otterback _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good Job GARY!!! I have to smile at your first flight challenges! My first flight in a Lightning was complete with 1) takeoff into low level scud layer that seemed higher when viewed from the ground, 2) engine quiting on a climbout after simulated approach to an air strip I did not want to land at...because there was no place to go if the engine quit 3) EIS numbers that meant nothing to me 4) banging my right leg with full control travel 5) a landing complete with the hope that it would touch down sometime...since I was out of control movements. When you read the first flight stuff in magazines, they always seem to have no problems. In the real world, that isnt the case. Actually my second and third flights had some dumb stuff happen too, from having a gas cap try to escape, having the rudder peddles go the the floor on takeoff because the adjuster spring was too flimsy, having the engine shut down on final because the idle was set too low and more confusion over the EIS. We had vibration too, but that was of a more minor issue. There is a reason they call it "experimental" Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 11/30/2008 7:12:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:31 PM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Well, Nick, much of it was your fault. If you had a decent tire on the hybrid, then you could have done a better job checking me out!!! It was a little humiliating getting towed in by the lawn mower after that skin blew out on landing!!! I just assumed that if I could land that twitchy bitch I could land anything!!! How were we to know anything, there was no manual back then!! doug In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:48:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, info@flylightning.net writes: Doug, I can think of a few comments but none worth sharing. Nick Otterback ____________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good Job GARY!!! I have to smile at your first flight challenges! My first flight in a Lightning was complete with 1) takeoff into low level scud layer that seemed higher when viewed from the ground, 2) engine quiting on a climbout after simulated approach to an air strip I did not want to land at...because there was no place to go if the engine quit 3) EIS numbers that meant nothing to me 4) banging my right leg with full control travel 5) a landing complete with the hope that it would touch down sometime...since I was out of control movements. When you read the first flight stuff in magazines, they always seem to have no problems. In the real world, that isnt the case. Actually my second and third flights had some dumb stuff happen too, from having a gas cap try to escape, having the rudder peddles go the the floor on takeoff because the adjuster spring was too flimsy, having the engine shut down on final because the idle was set too low and more confusion over the EIS. We had vibration too, but that was of a more minor issue. There is a reason they call it "experimental" Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 11/30/2008 7:12:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness From: n5pb@AOL.COM Gary, Congratulations on yor first flight!? You have a very nice aircraft! I hope you have lots of fun flying her. Bear Bryant -----Original Message----- From: GARY PENNINGTON Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 9:09 am Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Thanks Buz and thanks to all who commented for their kind words. Have a great day. ? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Great job, Gary, and a good looking "jet" you have there.? One thing to try on the gear leg shimmy is to lower the main gear air pressure to 25 to 28 psi and see if that helps.? Blue Skies, Buz Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:17 PM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: spoken in haste My apologies to all for calling the Hybrid ( Lightning wing, Esqual fuselage, 80 hp Jab engine) a twitchy bitch. It was a rather remarkable plane, which went a long way toward convincing the Green Landings Crew to order a Lightning. I meant to say it was "pitch sensitive" particularly when loaded with Nick and a lard-butt passenger. Did I say lard-butt? I meant gravitationally challenged. doug ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:08 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:31:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kayberg@AOL.COM writes: 1) takeoff into low level scud layer that seemed higher when viewed from the ground, 2) engine quiting on a climbout after simulated approach to an air strip I did not want to land at...because there was no place to go if the engine quit 3) EIS numbers that meant nothing to me 4) banging my right leg with full control travel 5) a landing complete with the hope that it would touch down sometime...since I was out of control movements. Doug, I have argued with myself as to whether I should throw in my $.02 on the above flight you mentioned, but then decided what the heck, Doug is thick skinned and obviously the Good Lord was watching after him. Also, maybe someone else can learn from your experience and not make the same decisions (heck, I will go ahead and call it like I see it - not make the same mistakes). As an EAA flight advisor, I offer the following comments because I like you and that is my job - whether asked or not. #1 above - based on the weather you picked the wrong day for a first flight. #2 - also sounds like you did not pick the best airport to be doing a first flight. #3 - don't make a first flight until you understand the systems and know what they are telling you. #4 - you needed to have had more cockpit time to identify that kind of thing before any attempt to fly. #5 - not exactly sure what you mean, but sounds like you were too fast, and maybe on too short a runway. Yes, these are experimental aircraft, but good training and discipline before each flight will greatly improve the odds of a successful flight - whether that is a first flight or your thousandth. And thank the Lord, He was watching after you that day. Had something happened, the airplane would have probably gotten at least part of the rap, and that would be bad for the entire Lightning community. Again, I write this not to step on any toes, but in hopes that it will cause others to spend more time preparing for their first flights. So, my good friend Doug, I am sorry, but at least your were man enough to write what you did, and I am betting at least part of your reason for doing so was also to educate others. Thank you for that. Blue Skies, Buz **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:41 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Doug, It was an F250 details .details. Nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Well, Nick, much of it was your fault. If you had a decent tire on the hybrid, then you could have done a better job checking me out!!! It was a little humiliating getting towed in by the lawn mower after that skin blew out on landing!!! I just assumed that if I could land that twitchy bitch I could land anything!!! How were we to know anything, there was no manual back then!! doug In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:48:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, info@flylightning.net writes: Doug, I can think of a few comments but none worth sharing. Nick Otterback _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good Job GARY!!! I have to smile at your first flight challenges! My first flight in a Lightning was complete with 1) takeoff into low level scud layer that seemed higher when viewed from the ground, 2) engine quiting on a climbout after simulated approach to an air strip I did not want to land at...because there was no place to go if the engine quit 3) EIS numbers that meant nothing to me 4) banging my right leg with full control travel 5) a landing complete with the hope that it would touch down sometime...since I was out of control movements. When you read the first flight stuff in magazines, they always seem to have no problems. In the real world, that isnt the case. Actually my second and third flights had some dumb stuff happen too, from having a gas cap try to escape, having the rudder peddles go the the floor on takeoff because the adjuster spring was too flimsy, having the engine shut down on final because the idle was set too low and more confusion over the EIS. We had vibration too, but that was of a more minor issue. There is a reason they call it "experimental" Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 11/30/2008 7:12:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:48 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Thank you Mark I spent most of the day adjusting things and flew her again this afternoon. She is getting better and I am getting more brave. Have a great day. Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Stauffer To: Lightning-List Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Congratulations to Gary Pennington on his first flight. Gary's is the 36th Lightning to fly. On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. Gary has a beautiful plane and we wish him many happy hours flying it. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:51 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Lightning-List: Hello to everyone I would like to thank you again for your responses and kind comments. I am very pleased that my Lightning flys! Just a note to Buz....thanks for your tip on lowering the air pressure in my tires to minimize shimmy. I dropped the pressure to 30 psi and it helped a lot. Thanks again to everyone. Happy holidays. Gary Pennington ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:44 PM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Congratulations Gary! Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Airworthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now, a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:29 PM PST US From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lightning-list@matronics.com writes: After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. Gary, You're not the only one who has had this happen, so perhaps it's worth some discussion here. I've cranked up my idle a number of times, but it still tends to happen. I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having the engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction when this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. The springy gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Buz says) and I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be able to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if necessary. Hence my SOP to restart. Incidentally, if you let someone else have a landing, I suggest that you brief them on this possibility. Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say. Earl Ferguson **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:35 PM PST US From: EAFerguson@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI. Esquals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit arrived and we started the build early April and first flight was mid August. I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure nobody can top. Can I claim another World Record? Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast. Now who has the fastest builder assist time? Earl Ferguson **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:47 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low To the group, I don't know if this will solve the problem but I thought I'd throw it out there because it's helped us here in Shelbyville. What we've started doing here at the shop is add a second cable swivel stop to the throttle cable. What happens is with the throttle extension installed (standard with the kit) the longer moment arm makes it much easier to pull back on the throttle and bend the idle stop tab to a point that you can pull the throttle back to a point where the engine quits. We've had this happen many times, especially with transition training when pilots (myself included) pull too hard back on the throttle trying to reduce RPM. What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Hope this helps! Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lightning-list@matronics.com writes: After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. Gary, You're not the only one who has had this happen, so perhaps it's worth some discussion here. I've cranked up my idle a number of times, but it still tends to happen. I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having the engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction when this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. The springy gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Buz says) and I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be able to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if necessary. Hence my SOP to restart. Incidentally, if you let someone else have a landing, I suggest that you brief them on this possibility. Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say. Earl Ferguson _____ Life should be easier. So olcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:25 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion I believe that goes to Wayne Lenox with around 54 days. Wayne, is this correct?? Tom, Greg, Ryan... do you guys have one quicker than that?? (Not asked in a challenging manner.. just curious! We haven't heard any other build times) Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI. Esquals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit arrived and we started the build early April and first flight was mid August. I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure nobody can top. Can I claim another World Record? Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast. Now who has the fastest builder assist time? Earl Ferguson _____ Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Hi guys, I don't often join into these discussions but this topic is close to home for me. I have had this problem on a more or less chronic basis along with another fellow who flies TDT for me. I have tried adjusting the idle up and back down again with no luck at correcting the problem. With the help of some technically skilled engineers we have localized the problem to the throttle connection on the bing carb. It's pretty basic with no substance when back pressure is applied. I was told I would have to learn to fly the plane with this minor design issue. As I am one of those pilots that tends to keep back pressure on the throttle during touch down I of course keep shutting the engine down. I decided to bite the bullet and have a go at changing the carb to the far less complicated and far more robust Aero Vee. I have solved this problem as well as picked up some serious horse power by way of an increase in static RPM. The CHT's and EGT's immediately fell into line and they are easily managed. The added advantage of cockpit fuel management with mixture control is a bonus. I am in the early stages of documenting this and some other mods and will get it to Buz for the newsletter when I am comfortable with the results. One of those down under fellas, Ron Ritchie TDT On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:22:53 EST, EAFerguson@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > lightning-list@matronics.com writes: > > After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it > turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a > certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over > the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and > rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life > saving. Thanks guys. > > Gary, You're not the only one who has had this happen, so perhaps it's > worth > some discussion here. > > I've cranked up my idle a number of times, but it still tends to happen. > I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having > the > engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction > when > this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. The > springy > gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Buz says) > and > I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be > able > to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if necessary. Hence > my > SOP to restart. > > Incidentally, if you let someone else have a landing, I suggest that you > brief them on this possibility. > Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say. > > Earl Ferguson > > > > > > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:05 PM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Mark Started May 12th and N123WL flue June 27th. I think that makes 46 days. All possible with help form Mark, Nick & Mike. However I did stay on three more weeks to fly off the 40 hrs. and finish everything. Wayne -- "Mark Stauffer" wrote: I believe that goes to Wayne Lenox with around 54 days. Wayne, is this c orrect?? Tom, Greg, Ryan=85.. do you guys have one quicker than that?? (Not asked in a challenging manner=85. just curious! We haven=92t heard any other build times) Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning- list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@fl ylightning.net writes: On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His firs t flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! W ow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI. E squals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit arrived and we started the build early April and first flight wa s mid August. I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure nobody can top. Can I claim another World Recor d? Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast. Now who has the fastest builder assist time? Earl Ferguson Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigato ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== === ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2USkuThnuowEwJJOehTeUM VAmKoJdLiAGvgfHdlwyiU31bd/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:27 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion I stand corrected. 46 days it is. I don't know where I got the 54 days from. (I was only off by a week and a day!!) It was a great build and a good time with Wayne and Nell. Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Lenox Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Mark Started May 12th and N123WL flue June 27th. I think that makes 46 days. All possible with help form Mark, Nick & Mike. However I did stay on three more weeks to fly off the 40 hrs. and finish everything. Wayne -- "Mark Stauffer" wrote: I believe that goes to Wayne Lenox with around 54 days. Wayne, is this correct?? Tom, Greg, Ryan... do you guys have one quicker than that?? (Not asked in a challenging manner.. just curious! We haven't heard any other build times) Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI. Esquals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit arrived and we started the build early April and first flight was mid August. I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure nobody can top. Can I claim another World Record? Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast. Now who has the fastest builder assist time? Earl Ferguson _____ Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com =================================== www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List =================================== tronics.com =================================== ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:41 PM PST US From: AVN100@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: flap usage This persistent and unsafe reluctance to add flaps in a GA traffic pattern turn stems from anecdotal/isolated incidents, hysterical old wives' tales of unintended snap rolls followed by wing-shucking death spirals, and necessarily ham-fisted military "burner or drag chute" extreme operation. Instead of the previously-recommended dragging a light aircraft around with power to carry full flaps applied on downwind through base and enough of final to see and be seen, the incremental application of flaps throughout an approach both reflects and achieves smoothness and planning in the critical areas of field of vision, speed, trim, and descent angle adjustments. First notch (rather than full) on downwind coincidentally reduces the likelihood of exceeding multiple Vfe/fo limits when they vary with degree of extension. Most convincingly, the total time spent during the turns downwind to base and base to final in a reasonably close-in pattern is far more than the time straight and level on base. To prohibit flap movement during those long banked periods is to impose haste and rigidity in their usage and to reduce options for fine tuning power and descent angle adjustments for newly observed wind, traffic, obstacles, etc. Footnote: wouldn't dumping full flaps mid downwind in a Lightning mean you have slowed to below 75 while clean, meaning you entered downwind at 80 or so, meaning traffic is backing up and S-turning behind you at most airports? Finally, certified production GA aircraft are required and flight-tested to be fully controllable in an asymmetric flap condition encountered either wings level or while turning. If the Lightning is subject to but incapable of safely handling this happenstance with an average pilot at the controls, it (or at least the E/SLSA prototype) urgently needs to be redesigned. **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:53 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness From: "selwyn" That's some lawnmower! info(at)flylightning.net wrote: > Doug, > > It was an F250 details details > > Nick > > :) -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217288#217288 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.