Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Lightning gear leg shimmy (LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA)
2. 02:58 AM - Re: Fastest customer completion (IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM)
3. 04:19 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (GARY PENNINGTON)
4. 04:54 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
5. 05:35 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley)
6. 06:22 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (flylightning)
7. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: flap usage (N1BZRich@aol.com)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (EAFerguson@AOL.COM)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: flap usage (flylightning)
10. 09:40 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Mark Stauffer)
11. 10:01 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (flylightning)
13. 10:28 AM - Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (Dick Cleavinger)
14. 10:34 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley)
15. 02:13 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Brian Whittingham)
16. 02:28 PM - Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (selwyn)
17. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (Mark Stauffer)
18. 04:03 PM - elevator trim tab (Tex Mantell)
19. 06:54 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS)
20. 08:28 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley)
Message 1
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Subject: | Lightning gear leg shimmy |
To those experiencing landing gear shimmy - here in Australia I have experimented
with our first demonstrator aircraft and through trial and error have found
that by taking the wheel alignment to a tow out setting instead of the suggested
tow in setting, the problem is eliminated. I have used the same tow out
as was suggested for the tow in. Over a 12 month period we have monitored the
tyres and there is no evidence of any excess wear. Due to the success of this
trial, we have used the same settings on several other aircraft that are flying
with the same positive result. These results we obtained regardless of weight
loading of the said aircraft.
Dennis Borchardt
Lightning Aircraft Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217294#217294
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Subject: | Re: Fastest customer completion |
Hey Earl: I think we are pretty close, my start date was in mid April, and
the airplane first fly date was Aug 20 th. I will have to go back and check the
records to get the exact days.
Lynn Nelsen
N13LN Kit # 60
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:41:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
EAFerguson@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark@flylightning.net writes:
On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer
built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit
departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first
flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow!
That is the quickest individual build time that I know of.
I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI.
Esquals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit
arrived and we started the build early April and first flight was mid August.
I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design
refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure
nobody can top. Can I claim another World Record?
Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast.
Now who has the fastest builder assist time?
Earl Ferguson
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
Good morning Earl
Thanks for the recommendations.
The idle seems to be different on the ground than when on final. Maybe
I'm pulling harder on the cable when in flight. Not sure. Nick advised
me to install a barrel stop on the throttle cable to avoid pulling too
hard and bending the idle stop on the carb. I think it is a good idea,
though I just haven't had time to do it.
Have a great day Earl
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: EAFerguson@aol.com<mailto:EAFerguson@aol.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
writes:
After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As
it
turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a
certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was
over
the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and
rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life
saving. Thanks guys.
Gary, You're not the only one who has had this happen, so perhaps it's
worth some discussion here.
I've cranked up my idle a number of times, but it still tends to
happen. I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't
happen. Having the engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is
disconcerting. My reaction when this happened was/is to add a little
throttle and hit the starter. The springy gear legs on a lightning are
prone to bounce (in spite of what Buz says) and I don't want to have the
beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be able to add power to
stabilize the airplane or to go around if necessary. Hence my SOP to
restart.
Incidentally, if you let someone else have a landing, I suggest that
you brief them on this possibility.
Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say.
Earl Ferguson
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Subject: | Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness |
I do stand corrected by Buz....and others.
My major point is that stuff happens when you fly experimental airplanes.
Of course one should do everything to minimize stupidity, but it happens.
Much has changed since my first flight in a real Lightning. There is no
reason to fly one without some instruction, since Shelbyville as well as other
builders can give some right or left seat time. And Nick can afford to keep
good tires on the plane. There is a perfectly good manual for both building
and operations. While problems with instrumentation are typical during
early flights; by now the parameters are better known. We know that doing some
banking while feeding fuel from a low tank can lead to unporting....and engine
sputter. I know to double check the springs on the rudder adjust, to
double check the fuel caps and build the console with more leg room. We also
know how to adjust the prop to cut down on vibration.
First flights are a lot less exciting now at Green Landings. Besides, Ryan
does them!
And finally, I am not a great pilot. But I am working at it.
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:35:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes:
Doug,
I have argued with myself as to whether I should throw in my $.02 on the
above flight you mentioned, but then decided what the heck, Doug is thick
skinned and obviously the Good Lord was watching after him. Also, maybe
someone else can learn from your experience and not make the same decisions (heck,
I will go ahead and call it like I see it - not make the same mistakes).
As an EAA flight advisor, I offer the following comments because I like you
and that is my job - whether asked or not.
#1 above - based on the weather you picked the wrong day for a first flight.
#2 - also sounds like you did not pick the best airport to be doing a first
flight.
#3 - don't make a first flight until you understand the systems and know
what they are telling you.
#4 - you needed to have had more cockpit time to identify that kind of thing
before any attempt to fly.
#5 - not exactly sure what you mean, but sounds like you were too fast, and
maybe on too short a runway.
Yes, these are experimental aircraft, but good training and discipline
before each flight will greatly improve the odds of a successful flight - whether
that is a first flight or your thousandth. And thank the Lord, He was
watching after you that day. Had something happened, the airplane would have
probably gotten at least part of the rap, and that would be bad for the entire
Lightning community. Again, I write this not to step on any toes, but in hopes
that it will cause others to spend more time preparing for their first
flights. So, my good friend Doug, I am sorry, but at least your were man enough
to
write what you did, and I am betting at least part of your reason for doing
so was also to educate others. Thank you for that.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
Gary:
i think part of the reason that idle is different in the air is because of
the effect of the air wanting to windmill your prop when your aircraft
moving.
Keeps the engine idling. I have had the same experience twiice now with my
engine quitting when I was over the numbers, or in the second case, just
past. I was doing touch and goes and cleaned the airplane up, then
restarted the engine. It is a nice thing that the 3300 starts so easily.
We are looking at a resolution to the engine quitting problem as well.
Jim!
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:18 AM, GARY PENNINGTON <pennington@q.com> wrote:
> Good morning Earl
>
> Thanks for the recommendations.
>
> The idle seems to be different on the ground than when on final. Maybe I'm
> pulling harder on the cable when in flight. Not sure. Nick advised me to
> install a barrel stop on the throttle cable to avoid pulling too hard and
> bending the idle stop on the carb. I think it is a good idea, though I just
> haven't had time to do it.
>
> Have a great day Earl
>
> Gary Pennington
>
>
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Subject: | N 34 YZ Airworthiness |
Doug,
Yes I can keep better tires on her.thanks! More orders and I can put even
better ones on.
Nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness
I do stand corrected by Buz....and others.
My major point is that stuff happens when you fly experimental airplanes.
Of course one should do everything to minimize stupidity, but it happens.
Much has changed since my first flight in a real Lightning. There is no
reason to fly one without some instruction, since Shelbyville as well as
other builders can give some right or left seat time. And Nick can afford
to keep good tires on the plane. There is a perfectly good manual for both
building and operations. While problems with instrumentation are typical
during early flights; by now the parameters are better known. We know that
doing some banking while feeding fuel from a low tank can lead to
unporting....and engine sputter. I know to double check the springs on the
rudder adjust, to double check the fuel caps and build the console with
more leg room. We also know how to adjust the prop to cut down on
vibration.
First flights are a lot less exciting now at Green Landings. Besides, Ryan
does them!
And finally, I am not a great pilot. But I am working at it.
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:35:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes:
Doug,
I have argued with myself as to whether I should throw in my $.02 on the
above flight you mentioned, but then decided what the heck, Doug is thick
skinned and obviously the Good Lord was watching after him. Also, maybe
someone else can learn from your experience and not make the same decisions
(heck, I will go ahead and call it like I see it - not make the same
mistakes).
As an EAA flight advisor, I offer the following comments because I like you
and that is my job - whether asked or not.
#1 above - based on the weather you picked the wrong day for a first flight.
#2 - also sounds like you did not pick the best airport to be doing a first
flight.
#3 - don't make a first flight until you understand the systems and know
what they are telling you.
#4 - you needed to have had more cockpit time to identify that kind of thing
before any attempt to fly.
#5 - not exactly sure what you mean, but sounds like you were too fast, and
maybe on too short a runway.
Yes, these are experimental aircraft, but good training and discipline
before each flight will greatly improve the odds of a successful flight -
whether that is a first flight or your thousandth. And thank the Lord, He
was watching after you that day. Had something happened, the airplane would
have probably gotten at least part of the rap, and that would be bad for the
entire Lightning community. Again, I write this not to step on any toes,
but in hopes that it will cause others to spend more time preparing for
their first flights. So, my good friend Doug, I am sorry, but at least your
were man enough to write what you did, and I am betting at least part of
your reason for doing so was also to educate others. Thank you for that.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Steve,
Apparently you have not had the opportunity to fly a Lightning yet based
on your stated concerns. There is no problem with any of the situations or
concerns you mention. On the Lightning, when you lower flaps, the aircraft
pitch angle decreases so there is no visibility problem when using flaps -
visibility over the nose is better. For a normal Lighting landing you use 30
degrees of flaps, not the full 40 degrees. That last 10 degrees is all drag
and generally reserved for when you might need a really steep approach. Also,
the Lightning flap motor is relatively fast, so there is no lengthy time on
down wind if you chose to put the full 30 degrees down before turning base.
And finally, if you have a relatively close in pattern, you will not be adding
power on base of final. I find that I am pretty much at idle power for the
entire time from when I roll off the "perch" on downwind to touch down. (Of
course, a "mile wide" down wind and base, and a mile long final is a totally
different animal.) Finally, there is no prohibition to the technique of
putting some flaps down on down wind, some on base or some on final. Just do
what works best for you. Remember, flexibility is the key to air power.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the
throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and the
n
set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don=99t m
ove the
throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of t
he
cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should
prevent you from bending the idle stop tab.
Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
Thanks.
Earl
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Message 9
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To the unknown and unsigned,
No you would not have to enter the pattern at 80, if you have flown the
Lightning or read a little more on it ( since this is where I would assume
you are getting your information and not actual interaction) that the full
flap speed is 90 and you can even put down 10 @ 100 if desired. Most GA
aircraft I have flown IE Cessna, piper, fly patterns at 90 or below anyways
so the likely hood of backing any one up is slim..and remember if your
behind someone they have the right away and you must make space so don't
know what the problem is here. That in turn would mean you would have slowed
to 100 in the pattern before your first 10 and than 90 on the perch before
the descent. Any technique is fine as long as that is what you are used to,
weather you like all the flaps at your key position ( I would assume you
know what that is) and a nice power off glide all the way around using your
distance and timing to adjust instead of power and flaps and PFM. Draggin it
in as you would state is most likely not an issue with better than a 18 to 1
glide clean and 15 to 1 dirty, the Lightning has a better glide than most GA
aircraft clean, again a more intimate knowledge of the aircraft might be in
order. As for the final indication of a redesign for asymmetric flap
conditions you know of course that this is highly unlikely. The design does
not lend it self to this kind of failure, as does one with cables to operate
the flaps( Cessna) or a thru type torque rod with a center split and
connection (piper) but a solid one piece torque tube and direct connection
to a drive rod buried so deep In the flap that it would be easier to get
your real name out than the drive rod ( we know it is not steve). If you
wish to dive deeper into the design with out knowing of her and only seeing
her from a picture or possible glance across the ramp be my guest , but rest
assured I have taken her home and my friend that is the intimate knowledge
you will never have.
Nick Otterback
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AVN100@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:12 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: flap usage
This persistent and unsafe reluctance to add flaps in a GA traffic pattern
turn stems from anecdotal/isolated incidents, hysterical old wives' tales of
unintended snap rolls followed by wing-shucking death spirals, and
necessarily ham-fisted military "burner or drag chute" extreme operation.
Instead of the previously-recommended dragging a light aircraft around with
power to carry full flaps applied on downwind through base and enough of
final to see and be seen, the incremental application of flaps throughout an
approach both reflects and achieves smoothness and planning in the critical
areas of field of vision, speed, trim, and descent angle adjustments. First
notch (rather than full) on downwind coincidentally reduces the likelihood
of exceeding multiple Vfe/fo limits when they vary with degree of extension.
Most convincingly, the total time spent during the turns downwind to base
and base to final in a reasonably close-in pattern is far more than the time
straight and level on base. To prohibit flap movement during those long
banked periods is to impose haste and rigidity in their usage and to reduce
options for fine tuning power and descent angle adjustments for newly
observed wind, traffic, obstacles, etc. Footnote: wouldn't dumping full
flaps mid downwind in a Lightning mean you have slowed to below 75 while
clean, meaning you entered downwind at 80 or so, meaning traffic is backing
up and S-turning behind you at most airports? Finally, certified production
GA aircraft are required and flight-tested to be fully controllable in an
asymmetric flap condition encountered either wings level or while turning.
If the Lightning is subject to but incapable of safely handling this
happenstance with an average pilot at the controls, it (or at least the
E/SLSA prototype) urgently needs to be redesigned.
_____
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Subject: | Engine idle speed set too low |
Hi Earl and others!
Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set
screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a
picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for
us.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable
between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the
engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the
engine (don=99t move the throttle!) and then slide the second
swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This
provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the
idle stop tab.
Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
Thanks.
Earl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is
typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept.
Cool...
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer <mark@flylightning.net>wrote:
> Hi Earl and others!
>
> Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw
> (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is
> better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
>
> This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for
> us.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *
> EAFerguson@AOL.COM
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
> *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
>
> In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
>
> What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the
> throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then
> set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the
> throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of
> the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that
> should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab.
>
> Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Earl
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the
> NEW AOL.com.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Engine idle speed set too low |
Jim,
I think Linda did just that .it is like a 1/8" collar .
nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is
typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept.
Cool...
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer <mark@flylightning.net>
wrote:
Hi Earl and others!
Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw
(AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is
better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the
throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then
set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the
throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of
the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that
should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab.
Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
Thanks.
Earl
_____
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com
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Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy |
The gear legs in my lightning were set to 1deg toe out in June of this
year. The speed at which shimmy occurs changed from about 40mph to about
20mph. I have balanced the wheels with not much change. I am now making
the wooden stiffeners used by the RV folks and hope to have them installed
in a couple of weeks. An old hand RV builder told me last week that they
set the gear legs straight, ie no toein or toeout and have seen no wander or
other problems. I plan to try that if the gear leg stiffiners have'ent
solved the problem.
.
Dick Cleavinger, n213rc
Lightning #42
n213rc@gmail.com
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:15 AM, LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA <
lightningaustralia@bigpond.com> wrote:
> lightningaustralia@bigpond.com>
>
> To those experiencing landing gear shimmy - here in Australia I have
> experimented with our first demonstrator aircraft and through trial and
> error have found that by taking the wheel alignment to a tow out setting
> instead of the suggested tow in setting, the problem is eliminated. I have
> used the same tow out as was suggested for the tow in. Over a 12 month
> period we have monitored the tyres and there is no evidence of any excess
> wear. Due to the success of this trial, we have used the same settings on
> several other aircraft that are flying with the same positive result. These
> results we obtained regardless of weight loading of the said aircraft.
> Dennis Borchardt
> Lightning Aircraft Australia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217294#217294
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the cabl
e
and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available space, yo
u
may be able to use two, (for redundancy)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK189&P=ML
Jim!
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning <info@flylightning.net> wrote:
> Jim,
>
>
> I think Linda did just that =85it is like a 1/8" collar .
>
>
> nick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Langley
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM
> *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
>
>
> You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that i
s
> typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept.
>
>
> Cool...
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer <mark@flylightning.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Earl and others!
>
>
> Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw
> (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is
> better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
>
>
> This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for
> us.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *
> EAFerguson@AOL.COM
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
> *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
>
> In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
>
> What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between th
e
> throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and t
hen
> set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move th
e
> throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath o
f
> the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that
> should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab.
>
> Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Earl
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try
the
> NEW AOL.com.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
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> **
>
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Message 15
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Subject: | Engine idle speed set too low |
Keep in mind that this doesn't just happen with the Lightning or an experim
ental aircraft. I've had this happen with a Cessna several times and you c
an do it in a Piper as well. Just depends on how strong armed you are with
them. Brian W.
From: EAFerguson@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Dec 2008 21:22:53 -0500Subject: Ligh
tning-List: Engine idle speed set too lowTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C lightnin
g-list@matronics.com writes:
After turning final=2C I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it t
urned out=2C the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain
amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the thresh
old and lots of runway ahead=2C so=2C I just set it down and rolled out. Th
e transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys.
Gary=2C You're not the only one who has had this happen=2C so perhaps it's
worth some discussion here.
I've cranked up my idle a number of times=2C but it still tends to happen.
I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having t
he engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction
when this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. Th
e springy gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Bu
z says) and I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and
not be able to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if neces
sary. Hence my SOP to restart.
Incidentally=2C if you let someone else have a landing=2C I suggest that yo
u brief them on this possibility.
Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say.
Earl Ferguson
Life should be easier. So olcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try th
e NEW AOL.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Suspicious message? There=92s an alert for that.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broa
d2_122008
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy |
Has anyone measured the effect of loading on fore and aft wheel alignment? What
I am thinking of is measuring the more or less empty aircraft, filling it with
fuel, adding two large lads, rolling it along in a straight line for a bit
to let things settle and then measuring it again.
This would be useful information to put into thinking about effects of alignment,
especially as we have this difference in observed effects.
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217399#217399
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy |
Selwyn,
Here in Shelbyville we load up the plane to around 1250 lbs using sand bags
on the wings and then roll it fore and aft a few times (2'-3'). At that
point we set the toe on the gear. Currently we're setting the toe to 1
degree out.
We've never measured the difference in toe between empty and loaded.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:28 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy
Has anyone measured the effect of loading on fore and aft wheel alignment?
What I am thinking of is measuring the more or less empty aircraft, filling
it with fuel, adding two large lads, rolling it along in a straight line for
a bit to let things settle and then measuring it again.
This would be useful information to put into thinking about effects of
alignment, especially as we have this difference in observed effects.
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217399#217399
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Subject: | elevator trim tab |
I have noticed now that a few people have cut the elevator out for a
trim tab. How many square inches did you make the tab? If you have flown
with it yet, and is it the size you consider right? Is it enough trim
and can you override it if its in a full up configuration? I have mine
at 46 square inches and have not flown. Tex
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Engine idle speed set too low |
Jim,
That is about the same thing installed on my plane; I had several
instances of the engine quitting on short final or right after landing
before I installed this.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Langley
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the
cable and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available
space, you may be able to use two, (for redundancy)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK189&P=ML
Jim!
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning <info@flylightning.net>
wrote:
Jim,
I think Linda did just that =85it is like a 1/8" collar .
nick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Langley
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar
that is typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same
concept.
Cool...
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer
<mark@flylightning.net> wrote:
Hi Earl and others!
Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set
screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a
picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well
for us.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable
between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the
engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the
engine (don't move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop
up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a
good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop
tab.
Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this
fix?
Thanks.
Earl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
11/27/2008 7:53 PM
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Subject: | Engine idle speed set too low |
Yep, it was a little unnerving the first time it happened, but the 3300
starts so quickly, it got used to it. I'm going to use your wheel collar
idea.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH
MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
Jim,
That is about the same thing installed on my plane; I had several
instances of the engine quitting on short final or right after landing
before I installed this.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Langley <mailto:pequeajim@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the cable
and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available space, you
may be able to use two, (for redundancy)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?
<http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK189&P=ML>
&I=LXK189&P=ML
Jim!
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning <info@flylightning.net> wrote:
Jim,
I think Linda did just that .it is like a 1/8" collar .
nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is
typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept.
Cool...
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer <mark@flylightning.net>
wrote:
Hi Earl and others!
Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw
(AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is
better than me trying to type a 1000 words.
This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low
In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes:
What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the
throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then
set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the
throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of
the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that
should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab.
Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix?
Thanks.
Earl
_____
Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the
NEW AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
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