---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/02/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:15 AM - Lightning gear leg shimmy (LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA) 2. 02:58 AM - Re: Fastest customer completion (IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM) 3. 04:19 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (GARY PENNINGTON) 4. 04:54 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 5. 05:35 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley) 6. 06:22 AM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (flylightning) 7. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: flap usage (N1BZRich@aol.com) 8. 07:07 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (EAFerguson@AOL.COM) 9. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: flap usage (flylightning) 10. 09:40 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Mark Stauffer) 11. 10:01 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley) 12. 10:23 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (flylightning) 13. 10:28 AM - Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (Dick Cleavinger) 14. 10:34 AM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley) 15. 02:13 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Brian Whittingham) 16. 02:28 PM - Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (selwyn) 17. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy (Mark Stauffer) 18. 04:03 PM - elevator trim tab (Tex Mantell) 19. 06:54 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS) 20. 08:28 PM - Re: Engine idle speed set too low (Jim Langley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:36 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning gear leg shimmy From: "LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA" To those experiencing landing gear shimmy - here in Australia I have experimented with our first demonstrator aircraft and through trial and error have found that by taking the wheel alignment to a tow out setting instead of the suggested tow in setting, the problem is eliminated. I have used the same tow out as was suggested for the tow in. Over a 12 month period we have monitored the tyres and there is no evidence of any excess wear. Due to the success of this trial, we have used the same settings on several other aircraft that are flying with the same positive result. These results we obtained regardless of weight loading of the said aircraft. Dennis Borchardt Lightning Aircraft Australia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217294#217294 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:49 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastest customer completion Hey Earl: I think we are pretty close, my start date was in mid April, and the airplane first fly date was Aug 20 th. I will have to go back and check the records to get the exact days. Lynn Nelsen N13LN Kit # 60 In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:41:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, EAFerguson@aol.com writes: In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: On a side note I believe that Gary has the record for quickest customer built (meaning no Builders Assistance Program) Lightning. Gary's kit departed WI on August 4th so he received it about a week later. His first flight was yesterday for a total build time of just over 3 1/2 months! Wow! That is the quickest individual build time that I know of. I'm claiming the longest Lightning factory builder assist time at SYI. Esquals with missing parts and Buz's redesign while building don't count. My kit arrived and we started the build early April and first flight was mid August. I'm also the only builder who had the fuselage redesigned and the new design refitted to my Lightning after the paint shop. That's a claim I'm pretty sure nobody can top. Can I claim another World Record? Even with the fuselage replacement, 4 1/2 months is incredibly fast. Now who has the fastest builder assist time? Earl Ferguson ____________________________________ Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com .. (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:19 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Good morning Earl Thanks for the recommendations. The idle seems to be different on the ground than when on final. Maybe I'm pulling harder on the cable when in flight. Not sure. Nick advised me to install a barrel stop on the throttle cable to avoid pulling too hard and bending the idle stop on the carb. I think it is a good idea, though I just haven't had time to do it. Have a great day Earl Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: EAFerguson@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lightning-list@matronics.com writes: After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. Gary, You're not the only one who has had this happen, so perhaps it's worth some discussion here. I've cranked up my idle a number of times, but it still tends to happen. I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having the engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction when this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. The springy gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Buz says) and I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be able to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if necessary. Hence my SOP to restart. Incidentally, if you let someone else have a landing, I suggest that you brief them on this possibility. Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say. Earl Ferguson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Life should be easier. So olcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:33 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness I do stand corrected by Buz....and others. My major point is that stuff happens when you fly experimental airplanes. Of course one should do everything to minimize stupidity, but it happens. Much has changed since my first flight in a real Lightning. There is no reason to fly one without some instruction, since Shelbyville as well as other builders can give some right or left seat time. And Nick can afford to keep good tires on the plane. There is a perfectly good manual for both building and operations. While problems with instrumentation are typical during early flights; by now the parameters are better known. We know that doing some banking while feeding fuel from a low tank can lead to unporting....and engine sputter. I know to double check the springs on the rudder adjust, to double check the fuel caps and build the console with more leg room. We also know how to adjust the prop to cut down on vibration. First flights are a lot less exciting now at Green Landings. Besides, Ryan does them! And finally, I am not a great pilot. But I am working at it. Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:35:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Doug, I have argued with myself as to whether I should throw in my $.02 on the above flight you mentioned, but then decided what the heck, Doug is thick skinned and obviously the Good Lord was watching after him. Also, maybe someone else can learn from your experience and not make the same decisions (heck, I will go ahead and call it like I see it - not make the same mistakes). As an EAA flight advisor, I offer the following comments because I like you and that is my job - whether asked or not. #1 above - based on the weather you picked the wrong day for a first flight. #2 - also sounds like you did not pick the best airport to be doing a first flight. #3 - don't make a first flight until you understand the systems and know what they are telling you. #4 - you needed to have had more cockpit time to identify that kind of thing before any attempt to fly. #5 - not exactly sure what you mean, but sounds like you were too fast, and maybe on too short a runway. Yes, these are experimental aircraft, but good training and discipline before each flight will greatly improve the odds of a successful flight - whether that is a first flight or your thousandth. And thank the Lord, He was watching after you that day. Had something happened, the airplane would have probably gotten at least part of the rap, and that would be bad for the entire Lightning community. Again, I write this not to step on any toes, but in hopes that it will cause others to spend more time preparing for their first flights. So, my good friend Doug, I am sorry, but at least your were man enough to write what you did, and I am betting at least part of your reason for doing so was also to educate others. Thank you for that. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:04 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Gary: i think part of the reason that idle is different in the air is because of the effect of the air wanting to windmill your prop when your aircraft moving. Keeps the engine idling. I have had the same experience twiice now with my engine quitting when I was over the numbers, or in the second case, just past. I was doing touch and goes and cleaned the airplane up, then restarted the engine. It is a nice thing that the 3300 starts so easily. We are looking at a resolution to the engine quitting problem as well. Jim! On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:18 AM, GARY PENNINGTON wrote: > Good morning Earl > > Thanks for the recommendations. > > The idle seems to be different on the ground than when on final. Maybe I'm > pulling harder on the cable when in flight. Not sure. Nick advised me to > install a barrel stop on the throttle cable to avoid pulling too hard and > bending the idle stop on the carb. I think it is a good idea, though I just > haven't had time to do it. > > Have a great day Earl > > Gary Pennington > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:20 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Doug, Yes I can keep better tires on her.thanks! More orders and I can put even better ones on. Nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:54 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness I do stand corrected by Buz....and others. My major point is that stuff happens when you fly experimental airplanes. Of course one should do everything to minimize stupidity, but it happens. Much has changed since my first flight in a real Lightning. There is no reason to fly one without some instruction, since Shelbyville as well as other builders can give some right or left seat time. And Nick can afford to keep good tires on the plane. There is a perfectly good manual for both building and operations. While problems with instrumentation are typical during early flights; by now the parameters are better known. We know that doing some banking while feeding fuel from a low tank can lead to unporting....and engine sputter. I know to double check the springs on the rudder adjust, to double check the fuel caps and build the console with more leg room. We also know how to adjust the prop to cut down on vibration. First flights are a lot less exciting now at Green Landings. Besides, Ryan does them! And finally, I am not a great pilot. But I am working at it. Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:35:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Doug, I have argued with myself as to whether I should throw in my $.02 on the above flight you mentioned, but then decided what the heck, Doug is thick skinned and obviously the Good Lord was watching after him. Also, maybe someone else can learn from your experience and not make the same decisions (heck, I will go ahead and call it like I see it - not make the same mistakes). As an EAA flight advisor, I offer the following comments because I like you and that is my job - whether asked or not. #1 above - based on the weather you picked the wrong day for a first flight. #2 - also sounds like you did not pick the best airport to be doing a first flight. #3 - don't make a first flight until you understand the systems and know what they are telling you. #4 - you needed to have had more cockpit time to identify that kind of thing before any attempt to fly. #5 - not exactly sure what you mean, but sounds like you were too fast, and maybe on too short a runway. Yes, these are experimental aircraft, but good training and discipline before each flight will greatly improve the odds of a successful flight - whether that is a first flight or your thousandth. And thank the Lord, He was watching after you that day. Had something happened, the airplane would have probably gotten at least part of the rap, and that would be bad for the entire Lightning community. Again, I write this not to step on any toes, but in hopes that it will cause others to spend more time preparing for their first flights. So, my good friend Doug, I am sorry, but at least your were man enough to write what you did, and I am betting at least part of your reason for doing so was also to educate others. Thank you for that. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:47 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: flap usage Steve, Apparently you have not had the opportunity to fly a Lightning yet based on your stated concerns. There is no problem with any of the situations or concerns you mention. On the Lightning, when you lower flaps, the aircraft pitch angle decreases so there is no visibility problem when using flaps - visibility over the nose is better. For a normal Lighting landing you use 30 degrees of flaps, not the full 40 degrees. That last 10 degrees is all drag and generally reserved for when you might need a really steep approach. Also, the Lightning flap motor is relatively fast, so there is no lengthy time on down wind if you chose to put the full 30 degrees down before turning base. And finally, if you have a relatively close in pattern, you will not be adding power on base of final. I find that I am pretty much at idle power for the entire time from when I roll off the "perch" on downwind to touch down. (Of course, a "mile wide" down wind and base, and a mile long final is a totally different animal.) Finally, there is no prohibition to the technique of putting some flaps down on down wind, some on base or some on final. Just do what works best for you. Remember, flexibility is the key to air power. Blue Skies, Buz **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:15 AM PST US From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and the n set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don=99t m ove the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of t he cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? Thanks. Earl **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. m00000002) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:58 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: flap usage To the unknown and unsigned, No you would not have to enter the pattern at 80, if you have flown the Lightning or read a little more on it ( since this is where I would assume you are getting your information and not actual interaction) that the full flap speed is 90 and you can even put down 10 @ 100 if desired. Most GA aircraft I have flown IE Cessna, piper, fly patterns at 90 or below anyways so the likely hood of backing any one up is slim..and remember if your behind someone they have the right away and you must make space so don't know what the problem is here. That in turn would mean you would have slowed to 100 in the pattern before your first 10 and than 90 on the perch before the descent. Any technique is fine as long as that is what you are used to, weather you like all the flaps at your key position ( I would assume you know what that is) and a nice power off glide all the way around using your distance and timing to adjust instead of power and flaps and PFM. Draggin it in as you would state is most likely not an issue with better than a 18 to 1 glide clean and 15 to 1 dirty, the Lightning has a better glide than most GA aircraft clean, again a more intimate knowledge of the aircraft might be in order. As for the final indication of a redesign for asymmetric flap conditions you know of course that this is highly unlikely. The design does not lend it self to this kind of failure, as does one with cables to operate the flaps( Cessna) or a thru type torque rod with a center split and connection (piper) but a solid one piece torque tube and direct connection to a drive rod buried so deep In the flap that it would be easier to get your real name out than the drive rod ( we know it is not steve). If you wish to dive deeper into the design with out knowing of her and only seeing her from a picture or possible glance across the ramp be my guest , but rest assured I have taken her home and my friend that is the intimate knowledge you will never have. Nick Otterback _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AVN100@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:12 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: flap usage This persistent and unsafe reluctance to add flaps in a GA traffic pattern turn stems from anecdotal/isolated incidents, hysterical old wives' tales of unintended snap rolls followed by wing-shucking death spirals, and necessarily ham-fisted military "burner or drag chute" extreme operation. Instead of the previously-recommended dragging a light aircraft around with power to carry full flaps applied on downwind through base and enough of final to see and be seen, the incremental application of flaps throughout an approach both reflects and achieves smoothness and planning in the critical areas of field of vision, speed, trim, and descent angle adjustments. First notch (rather than full) on downwind coincidentally reduces the likelihood of exceeding multiple Vfe/fo limits when they vary with degree of extension. Most convincingly, the total time spent during the turns downwind to base and base to final in a reasonably close-in pattern is far more than the time straight and level on base. To prohibit flap movement during those long banked periods is to impose haste and rigidity in their usage and to reduce options for fine tuning power and descent angle adjustments for newly observed wind, traffic, obstacles, etc. Footnote: wouldn't dumping full flaps mid downwind in a Lightning mean you have slowed to below 75 while clean, meaning you entered downwind at 80 or so, meaning traffic is backing up and S-turning behind you at most airports? Finally, certified production GA aircraft are required and flight-tested to be fully controllable in an asymmetric flap condition encountered either wings level or while turning. If the Lightning is subject to but incapable of safely handling this happenstance with an average pilot at the controls, it (or at least the E/SLSA prototype) urgently needs to be redesigned. _____ Life tin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:47 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Hi Earl and others! Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words. This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EAFerguson@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don=99t move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? Thanks. Earl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:47 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept. Cool... On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer wrote: > Hi Earl and others! > > Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw > (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is > better than me trying to type a 1000 words. > > This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for > us. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of * > EAFerguson@AOL.COM > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM > *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: > > What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the > throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then > set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the > throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of > the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that > should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. > > Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? > > Thanks. > > Earl > > > ------------------------------ > Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the > NEW AOL.com. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:06 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Jim, I think Linda did just that .it is like a 1/8" collar . nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept. Cool... On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer wrote: Hi Earl and others! Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words. This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EAFerguson@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? Thanks. Earl _____ Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:02 AM PST US From: "Dick Cleavinger" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning gear leg shimmy The gear legs in my lightning were set to 1deg toe out in June of this year. The speed at which shimmy occurs changed from about 40mph to about 20mph. I have balanced the wheels with not much change. I am now making the wooden stiffeners used by the RV folks and hope to have them installed in a couple of weeks. An old hand RV builder told me last week that they set the gear legs straight, ie no toein or toeout and have seen no wander or other problems. I plan to try that if the gear leg stiffiners have'ent solved the problem. .. Dick Cleavinger, n213rc Lightning #42 n213rc@gmail.com On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:15 AM, LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA < lightningaustralia@bigpond.com> wrote: > lightningaustralia@bigpond.com> > > To those experiencing landing gear shimmy - here in Australia I have > experimented with our first demonstrator aircraft and through trial and > error have found that by taking the wheel alignment to a tow out setting > instead of the suggested tow in setting, the problem is eliminated. I have > used the same tow out as was suggested for the tow in. Over a 12 month > period we have monitored the tyres and there is no evidence of any excess > wear. Due to the success of this trial, we have used the same settings on > several other aircraft that are flying with the same positive result. These > results we obtained regardless of weight loading of the said aircraft. > Dennis Borchardt > Lightning Aircraft Australia > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217294#217294 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the cabl e and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available space, yo u may be able to use two, (for redundancy) http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK189&P=ML Jim! On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning wrote: > Jim, > > > I think Linda did just that =85it is like a 1/8" collar . > > > nick > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Langley > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM > *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low > > > You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that i s > typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept. > > > Cool... > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer > wrote: > > Hi Earl and others! > > > Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw > (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is > better than me trying to type a 1000 words. > > > This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for > us. > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of * > EAFerguson@AOL.COM > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM > *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: > > What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between th e > throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and t hen > set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move th e > throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath o f > the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that > should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. > > Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? > > > Thanks. > > > Earl > > > ------------------------------ > > Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the > NEW AOL.com. > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:53 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Keep in mind that this doesn't just happen with the Lightning or an experim ental aircraft. I've had this happen with a Cessna several times and you c an do it in a Piper as well. Just depends on how strong armed you are with them. Brian W. From: EAFerguson@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Dec 2008 21:22:53 -0500Subject: Ligh tning-List: Engine idle speed set too lowTo: lightning-list@matronics.com In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:57:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C lightnin g-list@matronics.com writes: After turning final=2C I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it t urned out=2C the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the thresh old and lots of runway ahead=2C so=2C I just set it down and rolled out. Th e transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. Gary=2C You're not the only one who has had this happen=2C so perhaps it's worth some discussion here. I've cranked up my idle a number of times=2C but it still tends to happen. I've also learned to watch the rpm on final so it doesn't happen. Having t he engine quit as you cross the R/W threshold is disconcerting. My reaction when this happened was/is to add a little throttle and hit the starter. Th e springy gear legs on a lightning are prone to bounce (in spite of what Bu z says) and I don't want to have the beginning of a bounce-oscillation and not be able to add power to stabilize the airplane or to go around if neces sary. Hence my SOP to restart. Incidentally=2C if you let someone else have a landing=2C I suggest that yo u brief them on this possibility. Let's see what the rest of the crowd has to say. Earl Ferguson Life should be easier. So olcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try th e NEW AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Suspicious message? There=92s an alert for that. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broa d2_122008 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:33 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy From: "selwyn" Has anyone measured the effect of loading on fore and aft wheel alignment? What I am thinking of is measuring the more or less empty aircraft, filling it with fuel, adding two large lads, rolling it along in a straight line for a bit to let things settle and then measuring it again. This would be useful information to put into thinking about effects of alignment, especially as we have this difference in observed effects. -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217399#217399 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:56 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy Selwyn, Here in Shelbyville we load up the plane to around 1250 lbs using sand bags on the wings and then roll it fore and aft a few times (2'-3'). At that point we set the toe on the gear. Currently we're setting the toe to 1 degree out. We've never measured the difference in toe between empty and loaded. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning gear leg shimmy Has anyone measured the effect of loading on fore and aft wheel alignment? What I am thinking of is measuring the more or less empty aircraft, filling it with fuel, adding two large lads, rolling it along in a straight line for a bit to let things settle and then measuring it again. This would be useful information to put into thinking about effects of alignment, especially as we have this difference in observed effects. -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217399#217399 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:21 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Lightning-List: elevator trim tab I have noticed now that a few people have cut the elevator out for a trim tab. How many square inches did you make the tab? If you have flown with it yet, and is it the size you consider right? Is it enough trim and can you override it if its in a full up configuration? I have mine at 46 square inches and have not flown. Tex ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:37 PM PST US From: "JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Jim, That is about the same thing installed on my plane; I had several instances of the engine quitting on short final or right after landing before I installed this. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the cable and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available space, you may be able to use two, (for redundancy) http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK189&P=ML Jim! On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning wrote: Jim, I think Linda did just that =85it is like a 1/8" collar . nick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept. Cool... On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer wrote: Hi Earl and others! Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words. This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EAFerguson@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? Thanks. Earl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 11/27/2008 7:53 PM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:28 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Yep, it was a little unnerving the first time it happened, but the 3300 starts so quickly, it got used to it. I'm going to use your wheel collar idea. Jim! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low Jim, That is about the same thing installed on my plane; I had several instances of the engine quitting on short final or right after landing before I installed this. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low To everyone, here is what we are talking about. Just slip it over the cable and tighten the collar as mark described. Depending on available space, you may be able to use two, (for redundancy) http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p? &I=LXK189&P=ML Jim! On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, flylightning wrote: Jim, I think Linda did just that .it is like a 1/8" collar . nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low You know, I was thinking about using something like a wheel collar that is typically used to hold wheels on RC airplane axles. Same concept. Cool... On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Mark Stauffer wrote: Hi Earl and others! Attached is a picture of our idle stop set screw. It's the same set screw (AKA swivel stop) that we use in the throttle arm. Hopefully a picture is better than me trying to type a 1000 words. This is not the only way to skin this cat but rather what works well for us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EAFerguson@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine idle speed set too low In a message dated 12/1/2008 9:51:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark.stauffer1@gmail.com writes: What we do now is add this additional swivel stop to the cable between the throttle arm and the end of the cable sheath. We warm up the engine and then set the throttle to a good idle speed. Turn off the engine (don't move the throttle!) and then slide the second swivel stop up against the sheath of the cable and tighten it down. This provides a good mechanical stop that should prevent you from bending the idle stop tab. Mark, would you post some instructions and maybe a pix of this fix? Thanks. Earl _____ Life should be easier. So shcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ 270.9.11/1816 - Release Date: 11/27/2008 7:53 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.