Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: 2 pictures for you (James, Clive R)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re:Rough landings (GARY PENNINGTON)
3. 05:08 AM - Re: turbulant landing (GARY PENNINGTON)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: Re:Rough landings (EAFerguson@aol.com)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Brian Proett)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Bob Haas)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: newsletter survey (jhausch)
8. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: newsletter survey (Bill O'Brien)
9. 09:24 AM - Re: newsletter survey (bhassel)
10. 09:47 AM - Re: newsletter survey (jhausch)
11. 10:28 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Colin J. Kennedy)
12. 12:54 PM - Re: turbulant landing (Brian Whittingham)
13. 01:08 PM - FW: newsletter survey (Bob Haas)
14. 02:32 PM - Re: newsletter survey (Brian Whittingham)
15. 03:41 PM - Re: Fastening wheel pants to brackets? (Jim Langley)
16. 03:42 PM - Re: 2 pictures for you (Jim Langley)
17. 03:45 PM - Re: 2 pictures for you (Jim Langley)
18. 06:28 PM - Re: newsletter survey (N1BZRich@aol.com)
19. 07:01 PM - Re: newsletter survey (N1BZRich@aol.com)
20. 08:03 PM - EAB S-LSA E-LSA (rv6n@optonline.net)
21. 08:27 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (N1BZRich@aol.com)
22. 09:28 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (rv6n@optonline.net)
23. 10:08 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (N1BZRich@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | 2 pictures for you |
Jim, these look very neat. Where do you get the spats(pants) and
fairings from? Vans or do Arion make them now?
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
and Jan Disher
Sent: 11 January 2009 06:47
Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you
Jim, I found a couple of pictures.
Pete D
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5745.JPG
IMG_5682.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
Message 2
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Subject: | Re:Rough landings |
Good morning Earl
Thanks for the tips. Yesterdays turbulence was probably the most bone
jarring I have ever flown through. The weather was very deceiving....no
wind, no clouds and clear blue skies.
Have a great day.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: EAFerguson@aol.com<mailto:EAFerguson@aol.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Rough landings
In a message dated 1/10/2009 3:07:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pennington@q.com<mailto:pennington@q.com> writes:
Later, after thinking about the flight , I remembered that under
similar atmospheric conditions in my other planes, I would typically use
only 10 degrees of flaps and slightly higher approach speeds which
allowed a better descent and landing. So, let me ask the
experts...."What scenario would you have used under these
circumstances"?
This will surely generate some useful postings. Here's my take for Buz
and anybody else with strong opinions to comment upon.
I've had several landings where rough air was a factor. One of note at
New Orleans Lakefront airport where I was on the ground rolling out and
a gust picked me up about 10'. Added lots of power and went around.
Jaburu engine responded with no hesitation, for which I was grateful.
Second attempt was almost as rough, but we stayed on the ground. Logged
two landings!
In cases like this approach I carry some power on final. That almost
requires full flaps or you will float forever. Cut power when stable
just above the runway. Hit the flaps up button immediately after touch
down to kill lift. Always use long runways, (well try to).
The important point to make here is that the Lightning is a very light
aircraft, and it responds more to gusts than heavier types. The gear
legs are springy too, and it will bounce. In rough air expect the worst
and be prepared to go around as Gary correctly did.
The recent discussion on engines quitting on final is also important.
A porpoise with the prop stopped would be a disaster. SO put Mark's
extra collar on the throttle cable (I admit I haven't done that yet, but
I will).
My hint on rough air takeoffs: Hold it on the ground until 3-5 mph
above normal liftoff speed, then pull up to quickly put 10'+ between you
and the runway.
OK guys, the firing range is open.
Earl Ferguson
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
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Subject: | Re: turbulant landing |
Good morning Buz
Thanks for your response.
When I lifted off, winds were North at five, clear blue skies. While
aloft, I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and upright to
notice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I experienced the
extremely turbulent updrafts, I was abeam the numbers. That is also the
time I begin to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my descent. I'm
thinking that with the updrafts and flaps deployed, the lift was just
too great to allow a descent. Hence, on my third attempt with no flaps,
no power and pushing the nose over, I was able to descend. Mother Nature
is a powerful force and she is still in charge. I was at Marana Regional
Airport.
Have a great day.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com<mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary,
What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway, variable
heading, gust factor, etc. Which airport in Tucson were you using?
Hey, overall you did a good job. You knew to go around when things
didn't look good and you finally got it down safely. Who cares what it
looked like it nothing got bent.
Buz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines<http://news.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002>.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Lightning-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re:Rough landings |
In a message dated 1/10/2009 10:38:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
Hey World Record Earl,
Good to hear from you. I pretty much agree with all you mentioned except
for one part - I do not agree that "springy gear legs" cause an airplane to
bounce back in the air on landings. Here are my thoughts on bounced landings:
Bounced landings result from one of the following three things:
1 - the pilot does not arrest the descent by flaring properly and the
airplane impacts hard and then rebounds - has to do with the improper flare and
not the springy gear legs.
2 - the pilot attempts to touch down at too great an airspeed, while the
wing is still developing excess lift and the aircraft skips back into the
air - again, not the result of springy gear legs.
3 - the pilot relaxes elevator back pressure at the point of touchdown,
reducing the wing's angle of attack from a previously stalled condition to
one that will generate enough lift to put the airplane momentarily back into
the air.
I knew that was coming! Choice #1 on Buz's list is exactly correct. However,
in rough air it's difficult to execute correctly when you are bouncing up
and down.
I'm planning to witness the drop test, but it will be a max gross and you
won't bounce at that loading. It is more likely to happen with one person up and
light fuel load at the end of a flight . Buz, of course weighs way more than
I do.
OK Buz, it's your turn!
Earl
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
Message 5
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Subject: | newsletter survey |
Hello Lightning Discussion Group -
My name is Brian Proett. I have exchanged email with a couple of you to ask
a few stupid questions. I am currently living in Norway as a geologist with
ExxonMobil. I have always been interested in aviation. I did my PPL
training while I was going to college in 73. I am from the DC area. I flew
off and on until 1980 when I bought my first house in California which took
every spare cent to service the debt. I did not pick it back up until 2003.
With a cruel twist of fate, about the same time I found out that I have a
congenital heart valve defect that will soon need replacement. Currently I
can no longer pass the medical until I have the surgery, after which I
should be able to pass the medical again. So here in Norway I have no
access to a LSA therefore have no access to flying.
With that intro, I am currently satisfying my interest in aviation with the
web and doing some passive research. Lightning is my favorite and I plan of
taking on the challenge of a build when I retire in about 18 mo. I will be
returning to Houston after this assignment. I am hoping that Arion
Aircraft will weather the economic storm and will still be flourishing when
I am ready.
I caught the performance discussion a few weeks ago. I am not interested in
a RG but like everyone else I am interested in performance. One direct
comparison that I found about performance increase with a retract was with
the Glasair SII - They quote a 10 knot increase with a RG vs FG (238 mph
vs 228 mph) or about 4%. Marginal in my opinion.
More questions:
1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the
emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the
difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov?
Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA.
I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and
I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for
experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future
directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will
there be two aircraft.
2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best
possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that
might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build
this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts.
3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping
up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person
but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW).
Comments on the newsletter. It is through the news letter and Jim's build
site that I became interested in the Lightning and the newsletter remains my
best source of info. The newsletter is Lightnings best advertisement. I
just became a member of the online discussion group only after reading the
newsletters. As I am not a lightning builder/owner, therefore, have very
little to contribute. What I am looking for in future newsletters is as
much information as possible for a future build in say late 2010 or early
2011. I am interested in performance and problems and solutions that others
have encountered to make my build as problem free as possible. I also
enjoy the experiences that other owners share. I look forward to becoming
part of the community once I return back to the states.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sttwig
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Hello all,
I don't know about all of you, but I really appreciate the Lightning
Newsletters. Besides the Matronics list and emailing Arion it is the only
contact I have with the Lightning community. I'm urging all of you to take
a couple of minutes and complete the survey that Buz sent out with his
announcement of the last newsletter. Buz as editor and the contributors put
in a lot of time and effort to make it a worthwhile publication. No
response to his survey could be construed to mean that it is not useful.
I'm sure that everyone finds something of value to them in every issue, so
let Buz know. I have pasted a copy of the survey here for your convenience.
Send your response directly to him at n1bzrich@aol.com
- Please make suggestions for future lead articles.
____________________________________________.
- Note: One of my favorites was Dick Clevenger's "travel log".
- Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead
article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders
and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk
Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other
section should be included?
____________________________________________________________________________
_.
- What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable?
__________________________________________.
- It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing?
______________________________ .
- What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts
________________________________.
- Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future?
________________________________.
- Almost any subject or topic is OK, but Lightning related would probably be
best, but not mandantory.
- Other thoughts and suggestions
_________________________________________________________.
- Remember, I want any feedback, good or bad, and any inputs for future
issues. That is the only way this newsletter is going to keep being
published and be useful to the group. Remember the newsletter should be
helpful and enjoyable to current, future, and potential builders and flyers.
I need your help to meet that goal.
Steve Sundquist
Kit #48
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223791#223791
Message 6
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Subject: | newsletter survey |
Yes Buzz, you are right, I did lean more to the Site but some
times I tend to group all the good information together.
I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experiences
with the Lightning pro and con. There is
a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information from
the manufacturer through the dealers to
the builders. We all gain from such input, good or bad.
I for one would like to see better access to the instrument
panel on the Lightning. I has been redesigned and it is better
now, how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for
easier access. This sort of comment from a builder
In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type
of article which gets my attention are the first
flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other than
superior operator skills.
Please keep the news letter going, some pilots read and heed.
Thanks for the venue, Bob Haas N380 BH.
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Hey Bob (and all)
Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters?
What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can improve
them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many people
really read the newsletter, but even with Steve's recent prodding to return
the survey, only a total of five have done so to this point. Not too
impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too
successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out with
the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the effort
that goes into each issue, I am really beginning to wonder if it is really
worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey.
Buz
_____
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines
<http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002> .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
Survey Response:
- Of the 11 issues that have been published so far, my favorite lead article or
type of lead article so far has been
I can't think of just one. All of the newsletters have been great.
- Please make suggestions for future lead articles.
Building the lightning at home (not build center)
A "serial" article going through a build slowly over multiple issues
- Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead article,
News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders and flyers,
Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk Works info,
Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other section should
be included?
See final comments at end.
- What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable?
See final comments at end.
- It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing?
Yes
- What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts
Unsure what this is. It is not sticking out in my mind.
- Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future?
Sure, I suppose when I start my build. . .
- Other thoughts and suggestions :
I think that Buz's work on this newsletter is outstanding. I think the lightning
website is "serviceable, but not exceptional. I think the builder sites out
there (like Jim's Lightning) are interesting reads and tremendous resources
to other builders. I think this Matronics forum is clunky.
I think, in today's information-intense world, a newsletter is not the best medium.
To me, VAF (the website and its forums), is among the gold standard in the
Exp AC world for information dissemination, entertainment, and community.
Doug Reeve's runs the primary site, there are many contributors, he links to the
mfr for their news releases, and he even promotes newsletters and owner websites
as he learns of them. There is also a group of folks who lend assistance
with forum moderation.
I don't know how to make it happen, but I'd like to see that sort of format grow
up around the Lightning community. I see Buz's newsletter morphing into the
main webpage center content. All of the work he does shooting for a monthly
deadline would instead be released as-completed.
I'd like to see a forum based on the v-bulletin platform (used by VAF, AOPA, PBP,
POA). Good subtopic organization and moderation would make it into a great
resource for the long term. (I'd be willing to volunteer for moderation duties)
I know it is easy for me to make these suggestions since I am not volunteering
to pull it all together. I just wanted to share with the group how I felt about
these things and where I'd like to see it go.
However, setting all of my "constructive comments" aside, What we have is much
much much better than "nothing" and the newsletter is great. I read it in its
entirety every time it comes out.
Respectfully Submitted,
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224048#224048
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
Have been scribbling notes on how to suggest doing something in the Van's
Air Force format. Jim Hausch beat me to it, and did it well. Please, Buz
and folks at Airon, go to vansairforce.com and see a site that is highly
informative and equally entertaining. Not to mention flexiblee, useable,
legible, inviting, and lots of other things that Matronics is certainly not.
Personally, I'm a writer, but electronically challenged, so I'm not likely
to be of any help, other than cheerleading.
Since I plan to build my Lighning at home, I am also very interested in
seeing/reading the adventures of others paving that particular road.
Meanwhile, good work, Buzz. I'll try to contribute when I have something to
say.
Bill O'Brien
ai't started yet, but will
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhausch" <jhausch@charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey
>
> Survey Response:
>
> - Of the 11 issues that have been published so far, my favorite lead
> article or type of lead article so far has been
>
> I can't think of just one. All of the newsletters have been great.
>
> - Please make suggestions for future lead articles.
>
> Building the lightning at home (not build center)
>
> A "serial" article going through a build slowly over multiple issues
>
>
> - Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections:
> Lead article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from
> builders and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical
> Tips, Skunk Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions -
> What other section should be included?
>
> See final comments at end.
>
> - What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable?
>
> See final comments at end.
>
> - It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing?
>
> Yes
>
> - What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts
>
> Unsure what this is. It is not sticking out in my mind.
>
> - Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future?
>
> Sure, I suppose when I start my build. . .
>
>
> - Other thoughts and suggestions :
>
> I think that Buz's work on this newsletter is outstanding. I think the
> lightning website is "serviceable, but not exceptional. I think the
> builder sites out there (like Jim's Lightning) are interesting reads and
> tremendous resources to other builders. I think this Matronics forum is
> clunky.
>
> I think, in today's information-intense world, a newsletter is not the
> best medium. To me, VAF (the website and its forums), is among the gold
> standard in the Exp AC world for information dissemination, entertainment,
> and community. Doug Reeve's runs the primary site, there are many
> contributors, he links to the mfr for their news releases, and he even
> promotes newsletters and owner websites as he learns of them. There is
> also a group of folks who lend assistance with forum moderation.
>
> I don't know how to make it happen, but I'd like to see that sort of
> format grow up around the Lightning community. I see Buz's newsletter
> morphing into the main webpage center content. All of the work he does
> shooting for a monthly deadline would instead be released as-completed.
>
> I'd like to see a forum based on the v-bulletin platform (used by VAF,
> AOPA, PBP, POA). Good subtopic organization and moderation would make it
> into a great resource for the long term. (I'd be willing to volunteer for
> moderation duties)
>
> I know it is easy for me to make these suggestions since I am not
> volunteering to pull it all together. I just wanted to share with the
> group how I felt about these things and where I'd like to see it go.
>
> However, setting all of my "constructive comments" aside, What we have is
> much much much better than "nothing" and the newsletter is great. I read
> it in its entirety every time it comes out.
>
> Respectfully Submitted,
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224048#224048
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
One of the things that makes a site like Doug Reeves (Vansairforce.net) work is
the large number of users. With over 6,000 RV's flying it's pretty easy to get
pictures, travel logs, discussion and dialog on a large number of topics.
This keeps the site fresh and users returning. You just can't pull off the same
level of intensity and interest unless you have a lot of interested parties
and input.
True the factory web site is weak. If you're used to other manufacturer's web
sites it is even difficult to get around. The best thing about the site is the
pictures of the Lightning. Again Van's is one of the leader's in information
presented and I really consider them behind the power curve in many ways. There
are many ways to spice up the web site but that requires money, time and
resources that may not be appropriate at point.
For the number of Lightning aircraft (in work and finished) the newsletter is great
and appropriate. Having a forum would be better than the 'List' but that
requires dollars to maintain, software to buy, etc.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224059#224059
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
bhassel,
I agree the lightning community is nowhere near the size of VAF. I also would
not expect one to "throw the switch" on my suggestions and we'd miraculously have
an equal offering.
However, I wonder if someone with web skills like Jim Langley could create a format/template
where someone with the enthusiasm of Buz could post content? - Thereby
laying the groundwork for a site which could also (immediately or eventually)
hold a v-bulletin based forum.
Before we go too long with these musings, here would be some good data to know:
1) How many members/subscribers are on this Matronics lightning list (not all of
Matronics, but just this particular list)?
2) To one familiar with both, who prefers this Matronics format to V-bulletin?
3) Who would prefer seeing Buz's efforts directed towards web content rather than
monthly newsletter?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224063#224063
Message 11
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Subject: | newsletter survey |
Brian,
There is a flight school just outside Stavanger with a Jabiru SP250. You
might qualify to fly that and begin to get ahead of the game, although it's
very different from the Lightning, it could keep you current and familiar
with the Jabitiru engine.
If you are interested, I will try to get a contact for you.
Colin K.
OK
Lightning # 52 under construction.
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Proett
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Hello Lightning Discussion Group -
My name is Brian Proett. I have exchanged email with a couple of you to ask
a few stupid questions. I am currently living in Norway as a geologist with
ExxonMobil. I have always been interested in aviation. I did my PPL
training while I was going to college in 73. I am from the DC area. I flew
off and on until 1980 when I bought my first house in California which took
every spare cent to service the debt. I did not pick it back up until 2003.
With a cruel twist of fate, about the same time I found out that I have a
congenital heart valve defect that will soon need replacement. Currently I
can no longer pass the medical until I have the surgery, after which I
should be able to pass the medical again. So here in Norway I have no
access to a LSA therefore have no access to flying.
With that intro, I am currently satisfying my interest in aviation with the
web and doing some passive research. Lightning is my favorite and I plan of
taking on the challenge of a build when I retire in about 18 mo. I will be
returning to Houston after this assignment. I am hoping that Arion
Aircraft will weather the economic storm and will still be flourishing when
I am ready.
I caught the performance discussion a few weeks ago. I am not interested in
a RG but like everyone else I am interested in performance. One direct
comparison that I found about performance increase with a retract was with
the Glasair SII - They quote a 10 knot increase with a RG vs FG (238 mph
vs 228 mph) or about 4%. Marginal in my opinion.
More questions:
1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the
emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the
difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov?
Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA.
I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and
I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for
experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future
directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will
there be two aircraft.
2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best
possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that
might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build
this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts.
3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping
up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person
but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW).
Comments on the newsletter. It is through the news letter and Jim's build
site that I became interested in the Lightning and the newsletter remains my
best source of info. The newsletter is Lightnings best advertisement. I
just became a member of the online discussion group only after reading the
newsletters. As I am not a lightning builder/owner, therefore, have very
little to contribute. What I am looking for in future newsletters is as
much information as possible for a future build in say late 2010 or early
2011. I am interested in performance and problems and solutions that others
have encountered to make my build as problem free as possible. I also
enjoy the experiences that other owners share. I look forward to becoming
part of the community once I return back to the states.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sttwig
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Hello all,
I don't know about all of you, but I really appreciate the Lightning
Newsletters. Besides the Matronics list and emailing Arion it is the only
contact I have with the Lightning community. I'm urging all of you to take
a couple of minutes and complete the survey that Buz sent out with his
announcement of the last newsletter. Buz as editor and the contributors put
in a lot of time and effort to make it a worthwhile publication. No
response to his survey could be construed to mean that it is not useful. I'm
sure that everyone finds something of value to them in every issue, so let
Buz know. I have pasted a copy of the survey here for your convenience.
Send your response directly to him at n1bzrich@aol.com
- Please make suggestions for future lead articles.
____________________________________________.
- Note: One of my favorites was Dick Clevenger's "travel log".
- Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead
article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders
and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk
Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other
section should be included?
____________________________________________________________________________
_.
- What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable?
__________________________________________.
- It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing?
______________________________ .
- What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts
________________________________.
- Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future?
________________________________.
- Almost any subject or topic is OK, but Lightning related would probably be
best, but not mandantory.
- Other thoughts and suggestions
_________________________________________________________.
- Remember, I want any feedback, good or bad, and any inputs for future
issues. That is the only way this newsletter is going to keep being
published and be useful to the group. Remember the newsletter should be
helpful and enjoyable to current, future, and potential builders and flyers.
I need your help to meet that goal.
Steve Sundquist
Kit #48
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223791#223791
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Subject: | turbulant landing |
Gary=2C
In the situation that you described I would normally use no flaps. It's
really important if you have gusty conditions. I would then add speed to
compensate for my lack of flaps=2C and add half the gust factor more. (if
you have 15 Gusting 25=2C then add 10 knots of airspeed) I hear what some
have said about floating and such and now you're adding airspeed. The flap
s out on a really gusty day are going to make things ten times harder thoug
h. If you practice and plan your no flap landings the Lightning will do it
just fine. Even with the extra speed you could very easily get down and s
topped on a 4=2C000 foot long runway without upping the pucker factor too m
uch.
A few stories that I will pass on about interesting landings:
Flying out of Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach was always an interesting thing
. With about 2=2C500 training flights a day it was one of the busiest airp
orts in the world. It reminds me of flying out of Atlanta with 20 people o
n extended final flying parallel approaches into the parallel runways. We
often had controllers squeeze us in between aircraft on final and shuffle u
s around based on how far the other aircraft were in front of us. One part
icular time I turned final in a Cessna 172S and we had a turbo Seneca twin
in front. He was trying to speed up the Seneca that was barely in the air.
He asked me to give him best forward speed. I went right to 129 knots fo
rward speed and to my amazement our ground speed was 165 knots! The contro
ller thanked me and asked me to slow when I closed up that gap=2C but also
wanted to know what kind of Cessna 172 would do a 190 MPH! I know what you
're thinking=2C why was he landing with a tailwind=2C but if you live on th
e coast in Florida you know that the winds 20 miles out=2C such as where fi
nal started can be completely different than the coast where you typically
get a sea breeze.
Another time I was in a Cessna and the guy in front of us was lingering in
the air. We were on instrument approach and had been on a long night fligh
t. We were completely visual at this point and shooting the approach for p
ractice. Well=2C the controller came on and asked if we could go visual an
d start a climb same heading and he'd bring us back around to the FAF. I s
tarted my climb and intentionally tried to maintain the least ground speed
as possible. We got about 2=2C000 feet down the runway and were at 1=2C500
feet when the controller said=2C "if you can get it down you're cleared to
land." I told him we could if he could grant us a long landing=2C which h
e did. (10.5k long runway) I chopped the power to idle=2C slowed the aircr
aft down=2C and put it in a severe side slip until just before landing. We
made the midfield taxiway easily.
My worst time trying to get a plane on the ground was probably again=2C in
a Cessna=2C when I was a Jr. in High School. It can be extremely windy=2C
and gusty in the plains part of Arkansas where I grew up. This happens eve
n more during winter as far as frequency=2C although we have recorded 100+
MPH straight line winds on multiple occassions ahead of a storm front. I t
ook off=2C just fine=2C flew around a while=2C and coming back in for landi
ng I noticed that I was hauling on downwind and it was bumpy. Turning fina
l I was going up and down. I went around and tried again. This time=2C no
flaps=2C forward speed up a little. We had winds gusting from 25-45 which
was causing some great discomfort on the part of the pilot. The winds wer
en't straight aligned with the runway either. I got it down fine=2C but th
at was a very uncomfortable experience for a young pilot.
My final story is one with a Lightning. I had been flying for several hour
s and saw a storm coming. I wanted to get as much time as possible in that
day so I stayed up. I looked again in about 10 minutes and it was coming
a lot faster than I thought. I headed towards the airport as this gust fro
nt was approaching. I entered downwind and listened to the ASOS. This was
a gust front approaching and it was starting to get really rough aand the
sky was turning black. I turned final and I could tell that the winds were
switching on me=2C but I could also see lightning and start to see rain.
I wanted to get down on this go if at all possible. I landed with about a
20 knot tailwind and got back to the hangar just as it started to pour.
I believe that if you had your engine stop and then didn't stick the landin
g then you can be fine. If you want to know how=2C go out and get your tai
lwheel endorsement. Brian W.
From: pennington@q.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightnin
g-List: turbulant landingDate: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 06:07:29 -0700
Good morning Buz
Thanks for your response.
When I lifted off=2C winds were North at five=2C clear blue skies. While al
oft=2C I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and upright to not
ice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I experienced the extremely
turbulent updrafts=2C I was abeam the numbers. That is also the time I begi
n to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my descent. I'm thinking that with
the updrafts and flaps deployed=2C the lift was just too great to allow a d
escent. Hence=2C on my third attempt with no flaps=2C no power and pushing
the nose over=2C I was able to descend. Mother Nature is a powerful force a
nd she is still in charge. I was at Marana Regional Airport.
Have a great day.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Saturday=2C January 10=2C 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary=2C
What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway=2C variable heading
=2C gust factor=2C etc. Which airport in Tucson were you using? Hey=2C ov
erall you did a good job. You knew to go around when things didn't look go
od and you finally got it down safely. Who cares what it looked like it no
thing got bent.
Buz
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
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Subject: | newsletter survey |
_____
From: Bob Haas [mailto:checkpoint2@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Yes Buzz, you are right, I did lean more to the Site but some
times I tend to group all the good information together.
I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experiences
with the Lightning pro and con. There is
a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information from
the manufacturer through the dealers to
the builders. We all gain from such input, good or bad.
I for one would like to see better access to the instrument
panel on the Lightning. It has been redesigned and it is better
now, how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for
easier access. This sort of comment from a builder
In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type
of article which gets my attention are the first
flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other than
superior operator skills.
Please keep the news letter going, some pilots read and heed.
Thanks for the venue, Bob Haas N380 BH.
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey
Hey Bob (and all)
Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters?
What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can improve
them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many people
really read the newsletter, but even with Steve's recent prodding to return
the survey, only a total of five have done so to this point. Not too
impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too
successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out with
the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the effort
that goes into each issue, I am really beginning to wonder if it is really
worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey.
Buz
_____
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines
<http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002> .
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Subject: | newsletter survey |
Buz=2C
I know that I'm not a builder/owner and therefore don't really qualify a
s the target crowd here=2C but I find the newsletter invaluable. The list
is also a good way to exchange information=2C but the newsletter gives a ni
ce place to build up hype and suspense when new things are released=2C wher
eas the list is more of a real time need clarification on a build step venu
e.
I have probably two good stories in me that I would like to get out and hav
e been bad about submitting them. I'll try to get that knocked out here so
on and send to you. I too think that it would be a good idea to take a cop
y of the newsletter down to my local FBO's and drop off a copy. This could
drum up business for Arion=2C but also give us new friends and allow for m
ore people to have conversations with about the Lightning. Thanks for your
time and effort! Brian W.
From: checkpoint2@comcast.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: FW: L
ightning-List: newsletter surveyDate: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 16:07:22 -0500
From: Bob Haas [mailto:checkpoint2@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday=2C January 11
=2C 2009 10:33 AMTo: 'lightning-list@matronics.com'Subject: RE: Lightning-L
ist: newsletter survey
Yes Buzz=2C you are right=2C I did lean more to the Site but so
me times I tend to group all the good information together.
I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experience
s with the Lightning pro and con. There is
a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information fro
m the manufacturer through the dealers to
the builders. We all gain from such input=2C good or bad.
I for one would like to see better access to the instrument pan
el on the Lightning. It has been redesigned and it is better
now=2C how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for
easier access. This sort of comment from a builder
In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type
of article which gets my attention are the first
flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other tha
n superior operator skills.
Please keep the news letter going=2C some pilots read and heed.
Thanks for the venue=2C Bob Haas N380 BH.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.comSent: Saturday=2C Janu
ary 10=2C 2009 4:45 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightnin
g-List: newsletter survey
Hey Bob (and all)
Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters
? What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can imp
rove them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many p
eople really read the newsletter=2C but even with Steve's recent prodding t
o return the survey=2C only a total of five have done so to this point. No
t too impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too
successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out wit
h the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the eff
ort that goes into each issue=2C I am really beginning to wonder if it is r
eally worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey.
Buz
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp:
//www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0
12009
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Subject: | Fastening wheel pants to brackets? |
Thanks, that's what I am going to do too.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and
Jan Disher
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastening wheel pants to brackets?
Thats all I did Jim, anchor nuts and washer head screws 10-32
Pete D
VH-PDI
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Langley <mailto:pequeajim@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Fastening wheel pants to brackets?
How are you guys fastening the wheel pants to the inside mounting brackets?
I was using a screw and Ny Nut, but my hards are SO big that it is almost
impossible for me to get in there to hold the nut in place for the screw!
Can't I just use T-nuts and the same screws?
Jim!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Subject: | 2 pictures for you |
Thanks Pete, that's perfect!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and
Jan Disher
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:47 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you
Jim, I found a couple of pictures.
Pete D
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5745.JPG
IMG_5682.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
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Subject: | 2 pictures for you |
Thanks Clive:
I got them from this guy: http://www.fairings-etc.com/home.htm
I believe we bought the ones for the RV-9, but if you talk to Bob and tell
him you want the same ones that he sold Jim Langley for Green Landings, he
will get you the correct version. They are very simple to install.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Clive
R
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:48 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Jim, these look very neat. Where do you get the spats(pants) and
fairings from? Vans or do Arion make them now?
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
and Jan Disher
Sent: 11 January 2009 06:47
Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you
Jim, I found a couple of pictures.
Pete D
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5745.JPG
IMG_5682.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
Hi Brian,
Good to hear from you again. Hope 2009 turns out to be a good year for
you in Norway and you can find a way to get some flying time while you are
there. When you do get back to the states be sure to stop by Shelbyville for
a
demo flight. Although many have bought a Lightning before ever flying one,
that is not necessary now that a demo aircraft is available as well as many
flying Lightnings around the US. As to your questions, I will provide some of
my thoughts:
1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the
emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the
difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov?
Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA.
I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and
I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for
experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future
directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will
there be two aircraft.
Actually, there is no "change in Mission" for the Lightning, just a
temporary shift in emphasis. What has caused the recent emphasis on a Light
Sport Lightning is the current "re-write" of the FAA 51% rule. Until that final
rule is finalized, the Lightning guys have no way to know if their current
kit will meet the new Experimental Amateur Built rule (51% rule). If it does
not, they will have to re do the kit so that it will meet the new rule. By
getting an SLSA Lightning built and certified, they will be able to continue
selling ELSA Lightning kits while the 51% kit is changed. So the recent
emphasis on an ASTM certified SLSA Lightning is so they can continue to sell ELSA
Lightnings while the EAB kit is redone to meet the new rule (if it does not
meet the new rule). They are covering all the bases. Besides, a majority of
their customers want a Lightning that can be flown with a Light Sport
License. Even though the current EAB Lightning can be built to meet the light
sport
parameters (a big reason for the long wing and new tips), some potential
customers want a kit that can be bought that is more than 51% complete. The
ELSA will serve those customers.
2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best
possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that
might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build
this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts.
I don't think you have any worry at all about short cuts. In fact,
unless you have built airplanes before, I would be willing to say you will end
up
with a better overall airplane by using one of the build centers. You will
certainly save lots of time. But remember, they will help you build the
basic airplane. If you want extra equipment on the airframe or the panel, that
might add some time to the build (and extra time probably equals extra cost).
3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping
up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person
but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW).
Well, it all depends. How hard a butt do you have? I have sat in my
Esqual for over 5 hours and the Lightning seating is certainly more
comfortable. Back support is excellent. Don't know how tall you are (I am 6'2",
but
other Lightning flyers are taller). Also, remember the rudder pedals are
adjustable, even while in flight. With extra cushions and lumbar pads that the
upholstery guys can make for you, you can pretty much adjust your seat to how
ever you like it.
Hope all this helps,
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
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Subject: | Re: newsletter survey |
Brian,
After re-reading your original message I see I really didn't cover all
parts of your questions in the first section. Here goes again:
What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop,
engine gov?
Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA.
I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and
I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for
experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future
directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will
there be two aircraft.
It kind of sounds like you (as well as many others) don't really
understand the new light sport rules. First, the current Ligntning kit is built
to
meet the current 51% rule and all of them are certified in the Experimental
Amateur Built category - EAB - not Light Sport certified. However, a person
using a light sport pilot's license can fly one IF that particular EAB
Lightning meets the light sport parameters - clean stall speed at 45 knots or
less,
gross weight no more than 1320 pounds, and max continuous rpm cruise of 120
knots. That last requirement is kind of a "good deal" because the 3300 Jabiru
engine manual list the max continuous cruise rpm of 2850 rpm (even though
the max rpm is 3300). So if you want your EAB Lightning to be able to be
flown by a light sport pilot, be sure clean stall speed is 45 knots or less, put
on the data plate that max gross weight is 1320 lbs, and put a prop on that
gives you a cruise speed of 120 knots at 2850 rpm. Also, when you finish your
40 hour flight test, be sure the first after test period entry in the
aircraft log book states that it meets light sport requirements - listing stall
speed, max gross, and max continuous cruise speed with the prop that you have
installed.
The above is how an EAB Lightning can be flown by a light sport pilot.
The longer wings help insure the stall speed is low enough, although some
regular wing Lightnings have been built at a light enough weight so that they
stall slow enough (VGs help). But we have also found that the longer wings are
actually a bit faster if you prop the airplane to go faster. But if you put
an entry into the aircraft log book indicating that a new prop (or another
change) that takes the airplane away from meeting the light sport parameters,
than that airplane can not go back to meeting light sport rules.
As to the future ELSA Lightning kits, they will have to be built to be
exactly like the ASTM certified SLSA Lightning - no builder changes allowed.
But remember, they can be more than 49% complete.
In the future, Arion plans to have both EAB Lightnings and ELSA
Lightings. Long range future may even include SLSA lightnings, but for now, just
that initial SLSA Lightning is planned so that ELSA lightning kits can be sold.
Confusing? I hope not.
Buz
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
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Buz=2C
I am glad you wrote this second message to Brian because it helped me cl
arify the confusion from your first note=2E I am new to this list and a
m currently an RV6 builder-owner-pilot wanting to sell the RV and build
a Lightning for the purpose of flying under the LSA rules due to medical
reasons=2E
My preference is to build a Lightning registered EAB that performs withi
n the LSA performance requirements=2E So if I understand this correctly
this is quite possible and therefore I am missing the reasoning for the
E-LSA version=2E Why would anyone want to do that if the Lighning -EAB
can be flown by a sport pilot or private with no medical=3F As an EAB
builder I could make changes if I felt like it as long as I was not chan
ging the performance for LSA and would qualify for a repairman certifica
te=2E As an E-LSA builder with no building options=2C a 16 hour course
would be required in order to be eligible to do the annual condition ins
pection even after spending all the time to build it=2E I am assuming t
hat the FAA previously approved the Lightning kit eligible under the 51=25
rule for EAB registration=2C did it not=3F I honestly do not know if A
rion has a =22Letter of Eligibility=22 about that=2C I am hoping they do
and that they have a check list for EAB builders=2E I am also hoping t
here is sufficient support to help guide me through this quest=2E
OK=2C I now have an answer to my big question above=2E It takes my gray
smothered head a while to think this stuff through=2E A builder would
want to build E-LSA when that builder does not want to do the majority o
f the work=2C such as by hiring commercial help=2E There is nothing wro
ng with that and that is the real reason for S-LSA and E-LSA=2E Now we
all can be happy=2E
So it is off to Sebring to start this exciting journey and do more resea
rch=2E Now if I can just find a buyer for my beautiful RV6=2E
Bob Bales
Mattituck=2C NY
RV6 N954RB
PS=3A lets not forget Matt when we don=27t want this stuff archived for
ever=2E
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From=3A N1BZRich=40aol=2Ecom
Date=3A Sunday=2C January 11=2C 2009 10=3A04 pm
Subject=3A Re=3A Lightning-List=3A newsletter survey
To=3A lightning-list=40matronics=2Ecom
=3E Brian=2C
=3E After re-reading your original message I see I really
=3E didn=27t cover all
=3E parts of your questions in the first section=2E Here goes again=3A
=3E What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e=2Eg=2E
=3E wing=2C prop=2C
=3E engine gov=3F
=3E Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been
=3E certified as a LSA=2E
=3E I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after
=3E surgery and
=3E I want the max performance that I can get=2E Alternatively=2C just
=3E go for
=3E experimental=2E I would like to here some comments about the future
=3E directions for the Lightning=2E Will future Lightnings be LSA
=3E only or will
=3E there be two aircraft=2E
=3E It kind of sounds like you (as well as many others) don=27t
=3E really
=3E understand the new light sport rules=2E First=2C the current
=3E Ligntning kit is built to
=3E meet the current 51=25 rule and all of them are certified in the
=3E Experimental
=3E Amateur Built category - EAB - not Light Sport certified=2E
=3E However=2C a person
=3E using a light sport pilot=27s license can fly one IF that
=3E particular EAB
=3E Lightning meets the light sport parameters - clean stall speed
=3E at 45 knots or less=2C
=3E gross weight no more than 1320 pounds=2C and max continuous rpm
=3E cruise of 120
=3E knots=2E That last requirement is kind of a =22good deal=22 because
=3E the 3300 Jabiru
=3E engine manual list the max continuous cruise rpm of 2850 rpm
=3E (even though
=3E the max rpm is 3300)=2E So if you want your EAB Lightning to be
=3E able to be
=3E flown by a light sport pilot=2C be sure clean stall speed is 45
=3E knots or less=2C put
=3E on the data plate that max gross weight is 1320 lbs=2C and put a
=3E prop on that
=3E gives you a cruise speed of 120 knots at 2850 rpm=2E Also=2C when
=3E you finish your
=3E 40 hour flight test=2C be sure the first after test period entry
=3E in the
=3E aircraft log book states that it meets light sport requirements
=3E - listing stall
=3E speed=2C max gross=2C and max continuous cruise speed with the prop
=3E that you have
=3E installed=2E
=3E The above is how an EAB Lightning can be flown by a light
=3E sport pilot=2E
=3E The longer wings help insure the stall speed is low enough=2C
=3E although some
=3E regular wing Lightnings have been built at a light enough
=3E weight so that they
=3E stall slow enough (VGs help)=2E But we have also found that the
=3E longer wings are
=3E actually a bit faster if you prop the airplane to go faster=2E
=3E But if you put
=3E an entry into the aircraft log book indicating that a new prop
=3E (or another
=3E change) that takes the airplane away from meeting the light
=3E sport parameters=2C
=3E than that airplane can not go back to meeting light sport
=3E rules=2E
=3E As to the future ELSA Lightning kits=2C they will have to be
=3E built to be
=3E exactly like the ASTM certified SLSA Lightning - no builder
=3E changes allowed=2E
=3E But remember=2C they can be more than 49=25 complete=2E
=3E In the future=2C Arion plans to have both EAB Lightnings and
=3E ELSA
=3E Lightings=2E Long range future may even include SLSA lightnings=2C
=3E but for now=2C just
=3E that initial SLSA Lightning is planned so that ELSA lightning
=3E kits can be sold=2E
=3E Confusing=3F I hope not=2E
=3E Buz
=3E **************New year=2E=2E=2Enew news=2E Be the first to know what
is
=3E making
=3E headlines=2E (http=3A//news=2Eaol=2Ecom=3Fncid=emlcntusnews0000000
2)
=3E
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA |
Hi Bob,
Good to hear from you. You might want to get in touch with Tex Mantell
from New York, or Carl and Pat Beatrice ( I hope I spelled that right from
memory) in New Hampshire. Tex is currently building a Lightning at his home
and Carl and Pat (previous RV-6 builders) will be starting their Lightning
build at SYI in February.
Now to clarify some of my previous comments: At this time the current
EAB Lightning in not on the approved list of 51% kits. The FAA never got
around to inspecting it before they put a moratorium on the inspections. When
they do look at it, we feel sure the kit will be approved because the Esqual is
on the approved list and it is slightly more complete kit that is the
Lighting. It really will depend on the people that actually inspect the current
Lightning kit. But until the new 51% rule is out, no more inspections will be
done, and the Lightning guys have no way of knowing what will be allowed
until the new rule is published. IF the current kit happens to not meet the new
rule, they will do what is required so that it will meet that rule, but that
might take some time. Certainly some time until the FAA gets around to
looking at the kit. So, instead of being totally out of business until that
happens, they are going the SLSA and thus ELSA route so they can keep selling
Lightnings. Plus, by doing so they meet the needs of those that want to fly
with a light sport license, but don't want to build an EAB.
Hope this helps,
Enjoy Sebring,
Buz
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA |
Thank you Buz,
Since the current kits are not on the Eligible list, and since there is no S-LSA
approval yet, therefore no one can build an E-LSA version, how are the current
builders proving to the DARs they built 51% of the plane so it can be registered
EAB? This is something I would need to know before commiting to build because
I would want to be able to do the same.
Bob
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA
> Hi Bob,
> Good to hear from you. You might want to get in touch with
> Tex Mantell
> from New York, or Carl and Pat Beatrice ( I hope I spelled that
> right from
> memory) in New Hampshire. Tex is currently building a
> Lightning at his home
> and Carl and Pat (previous RV-6 builders) will be starting
> their Lightning
> build at SYI in February.
> Now to clarify some of my previous comments: At this time
> the current
> EAB Lightning in not on the approved list of 51% kits. The FAA
> never got
> around to inspecting it before they put a moratorium on the
> inspections. When
> they do look at it, we feel sure the kit will be approved
> because the Esqual is
> on the approved list and it is slightly more complete kit that
> is the
> Lighting. It really will depend on the people that actually
> inspect the current
> Lightning kit. But until the new 51% rule is out, no more
> inspections will be
> done, and the Lightning guys have no way of knowing what will
> be allowed
> until the new rule is published. IF the current kit happens to
> not meet the new
> rule, they will do what is required so that it will meet that
> rule, but that
> might take some time. Certainly some time until the FAA gets
> around to
> looking at the kit. So, instead of being totally out of
> business until that
> happens, they are going the SLSA and thus ELSA route so they
> can keep selling
> Lightnings. Plus, by doing so they meet the needs of those that
> want to fly
> with a light sport license, but don't want to build an EAB.
> Hope this helps,
> Enjoy Sebring,
> Buz
> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is
> making
> headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
>
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA |
Bob, the key to proving to any DAR that you did 51% of the work is your
builders log. Take lots of photos throughout the process to show the DAR. If
the DAR has any questions he will ask you. You can also use your builders log
when you go to your local FAA office to get your Repairman's certificate. If
you use the builder's center at SYI you will have no problem at all. The
guys there have it set up so you do at least 51% with their help and the DAR
has inspected so many of their airplanes that he has lots of confidence in both
their workmanship and accuracy of all paperwork, to include your build log.
Buz
PS: Some of us have used a computer program called "Kit Log Pro" for the
builder's log. It helped me quite a bit when I built the Esqual and then when
the chapter built the 601XL. Unfortunately it was not around way back in 1977
when I finished my Pitts. :-)
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
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