---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/11/09: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Re: 2 pictures for you (James, Clive R) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re:Rough landings (GARY PENNINGTON) 3. 05:08 AM - Re: turbulant landing (GARY PENNINGTON) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: Re:Rough landings (EAFerguson@aol.com) 5. 07:23 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Brian Proett) 6. 07:34 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Bob Haas) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: newsletter survey (jhausch) 8. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: newsletter survey (Bill O'Brien) 9. 09:24 AM - Re: newsletter survey (bhassel) 10. 09:47 AM - Re: newsletter survey (jhausch) 11. 10:28 AM - Re: newsletter survey (Colin J. Kennedy) 12. 12:54 PM - Re: turbulant landing (Brian Whittingham) 13. 01:08 PM - FW: newsletter survey (Bob Haas) 14. 02:32 PM - Re: newsletter survey (Brian Whittingham) 15. 03:41 PM - Re: Fastening wheel pants to brackets? (Jim Langley) 16. 03:42 PM - Re: 2 pictures for you (Jim Langley) 17. 03:45 PM - Re: 2 pictures for you (Jim Langley) 18. 06:28 PM - Re: newsletter survey (N1BZRich@aol.com) 19. 07:01 PM - Re: newsletter survey (N1BZRich@aol.com) 20. 08:03 PM - EAB S-LSA E-LSA (rv6n@optonline.net) 21. 08:27 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (N1BZRich@aol.com) 22. 09:28 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (rv6n@optonline.net) 23. 10:08 PM - Re: EAB S-LSA E-LSA (N1BZRich@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you From: "James, Clive R" Jim, these look very neat. Where do you get the spats(pants) and fairings from? Vans or do Arion make them now? Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and Jan Disher Sent: 11 January 2009 06:47 Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Jim, I found a couple of pictures. Pete D You have been sent 2 pictures. IMG_5745.JPG IMG_5682.JPG These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google. Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:43 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re:Rough landings Good morning Earl Thanks for the tips. Yesterdays turbulence was probably the most bone jarring I have ever flown through. The weather was very deceiving....no wind, no clouds and clear blue skies. Have a great day. Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: EAFerguson@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Rough landings In a message dated 1/10/2009 3:07:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: Later, after thinking about the flight , I remembered that under similar atmospheric conditions in my other planes, I would typically use only 10 degrees of flaps and slightly higher approach speeds which allowed a better descent and landing. So, let me ask the experts...."What scenario would you have used under these circumstances"? This will surely generate some useful postings. Here's my take for Buz and anybody else with strong opinions to comment upon. I've had several landings where rough air was a factor. One of note at New Orleans Lakefront airport where I was on the ground rolling out and a gust picked me up about 10'. Added lots of power and went around. Jaburu engine responded with no hesitation, for which I was grateful. Second attempt was almost as rough, but we stayed on the ground. Logged two landings! In cases like this approach I carry some power on final. That almost requires full flaps or you will float forever. Cut power when stable just above the runway. Hit the flaps up button immediately after touch down to kill lift. Always use long runways, (well try to). The important point to make here is that the Lightning is a very light aircraft, and it responds more to gusts than heavier types. The gear legs are springy too, and it will bounce. In rough air expect the worst and be prepared to go around as Gary correctly did. The recent discussion on engines quitting on final is also important. A porpoise with the prop stopped would be a disaster. SO put Mark's extra collar on the throttle cable (I admit I haven't done that yet, but I will). My hint on rough air takeoffs: Hold it on the ground until 3-5 mph above normal liftoff speed, then pull up to quickly put 10'+ between you and the runway. OK guys, the firing range is open. Earl Ferguson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:21 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: turbulant landing Good morning Buz Thanks for your response. When I lifted off, winds were North at five, clear blue skies. While aloft, I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and upright to notice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I experienced the extremely turbulent updrafts, I was abeam the numbers. That is also the time I begin to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my descent. I'm thinking that with the updrafts and flaps deployed, the lift was just too great to allow a descent. Hence, on my third attempt with no flaps, no power and pushing the nose over, I was able to descend. Mother Nature is a powerful force and she is still in charge. I was at Marana Regional Airport. Have a great day. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing Gary, What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway, variable heading, gust factor, etc. Which airport in Tucson were you using? Hey, overall you did a good job. You knew to go around when things didn't look good and you finally got it down safely. Who cares what it looked like it nothing got bent. Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:32 AM PST US From: EAFerguson@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re:Rough landings In a message dated 1/10/2009 10:38:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: Hey World Record Earl, Good to hear from you. I pretty much agree with all you mentioned except for one part - I do not agree that "springy gear legs" cause an airplane to bounce back in the air on landings. Here are my thoughts on bounced landings: Bounced landings result from one of the following three things: 1 - the pilot does not arrest the descent by flaring properly and the airplane impacts hard and then rebounds - has to do with the improper flare and not the springy gear legs. 2 - the pilot attempts to touch down at too great an airspeed, while the wing is still developing excess lift and the aircraft skips back into the air - again, not the result of springy gear legs. 3 - the pilot relaxes elevator back pressure at the point of touchdown, reducing the wing's angle of attack from a previously stalled condition to one that will generate enough lift to put the airplane momentarily back into the air. I knew that was coming! Choice #1 on Buz's list is exactly correct. However, in rough air it's difficult to execute correctly when you are bouncing up and down. I'm planning to witness the drop test, but it will be a max gross and you won't bounce at that loading. It is more likely to happen with one person up and light fuel load at the end of a flight . Buz, of course weighs way more than I do. OK Buz, it's your turn! Earl **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:28 AM PST US From: "Brian Proett" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hello Lightning Discussion Group - My name is Brian Proett. I have exchanged email with a couple of you to ask a few stupid questions. I am currently living in Norway as a geologist with ExxonMobil. I have always been interested in aviation. I did my PPL training while I was going to college in 73. I am from the DC area. I flew off and on until 1980 when I bought my first house in California which took every spare cent to service the debt. I did not pick it back up until 2003. With a cruel twist of fate, about the same time I found out that I have a congenital heart valve defect that will soon need replacement. Currently I can no longer pass the medical until I have the surgery, after which I should be able to pass the medical again. So here in Norway I have no access to a LSA therefore have no access to flying. With that intro, I am currently satisfying my interest in aviation with the web and doing some passive research. Lightning is my favorite and I plan of taking on the challenge of a build when I retire in about 18 mo. I will be returning to Houston after this assignment. I am hoping that Arion Aircraft will weather the economic storm and will still be flourishing when I am ready. I caught the performance discussion a few weeks ago. I am not interested in a RG but like everyone else I am interested in performance. One direct comparison that I found about performance increase with a retract was with the Glasair SII - They quote a 10 knot increase with a RG vs FG (238 mph vs 228 mph) or about 4%. Marginal in my opinion. More questions: 1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov? Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA. I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will there be two aircraft. 2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts. 3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW). Comments on the newsletter. It is through the news letter and Jim's build site that I became interested in the Lightning and the newsletter remains my best source of info. The newsletter is Lightnings best advertisement. I just became a member of the online discussion group only after reading the newsletters. As I am not a lightning builder/owner, therefore, have very little to contribute. What I am looking for in future newsletters is as much information as possible for a future build in say late 2010 or early 2011. I am interested in performance and problems and solutions that others have encountered to make my build as problem free as possible. I also enjoy the experiences that other owners share. I look forward to becoming part of the community once I return back to the states. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sttwig Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hello all, I don't know about all of you, but I really appreciate the Lightning Newsletters. Besides the Matronics list and emailing Arion it is the only contact I have with the Lightning community. I'm urging all of you to take a couple of minutes and complete the survey that Buz sent out with his announcement of the last newsletter. Buz as editor and the contributors put in a lot of time and effort to make it a worthwhile publication. No response to his survey could be construed to mean that it is not useful. I'm sure that everyone finds something of value to them in every issue, so let Buz know. I have pasted a copy of the survey here for your convenience. Send your response directly to him at n1bzrich@aol.com - Please make suggestions for future lead articles. ____________________________________________. - Note: One of my favorites was Dick Clevenger's "travel log". - Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other section should be included? ____________________________________________________________________________ _. - What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable? __________________________________________. - It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing? ______________________________ . - What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts ________________________________. - Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future? ________________________________. - Almost any subject or topic is OK, but Lightning related would probably be best, but not mandantory. - Other thoughts and suggestions _________________________________________________________. - Remember, I want any feedback, good or bad, and any inputs for future issues. That is the only way this newsletter is going to keep being published and be useful to the group. Remember the newsletter should be helpful and enjoyable to current, future, and potential builders and flyers. I need your help to meet that goal. Steve Sundquist Kit #48 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223791#223791 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:14 AM PST US From: "Bob Haas" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Yes Buzz, you are right, I did lean more to the Site but some times I tend to group all the good information together. I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experiences with the Lightning pro and con. There is a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information from the manufacturer through the dealers to the builders. We all gain from such input, good or bad. I for one would like to see better access to the instrument panel on the Lightning. I has been redesigned and it is better now, how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for easier access. This sort of comment from a builder In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type of article which gets my attention are the first flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other than superior operator skills. Please keep the news letter going, some pilots read and heed. Thanks for the venue, Bob Haas N380 BH. _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hey Bob (and all) Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters? What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can improve them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many people really read the newsletter, but even with Steve's recent prodding to return the survey, only a total of five have done so to this point. Not too impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out with the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the effort that goes into each issue, I am really beginning to wonder if it is really worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey. Buz _____ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:08 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey From: "jhausch" Survey Response: - Of the 11 issues that have been published so far, my favorite lead article or type of lead article so far has been I can't think of just one. All of the newsletters have been great. - Please make suggestions for future lead articles. Building the lightning at home (not build center) A "serial" article going through a build slowly over multiple issues - Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other section should be included? See final comments at end. - What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable? See final comments at end. - It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing? Yes - What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts Unsure what this is. It is not sticking out in my mind. - Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future? Sure, I suppose when I start my build. . . - Other thoughts and suggestions : I think that Buz's work on this newsletter is outstanding. I think the lightning website is "serviceable, but not exceptional. I think the builder sites out there (like Jim's Lightning) are interesting reads and tremendous resources to other builders. I think this Matronics forum is clunky. I think, in today's information-intense world, a newsletter is not the best medium. To me, VAF (the website and its forums), is among the gold standard in the Exp AC world for information dissemination, entertainment, and community. Doug Reeve's runs the primary site, there are many contributors, he links to the mfr for their news releases, and he even promotes newsletters and owner websites as he learns of them. There is also a group of folks who lend assistance with forum moderation. I don't know how to make it happen, but I'd like to see that sort of format grow up around the Lightning community. I see Buz's newsletter morphing into the main webpage center content. All of the work he does shooting for a monthly deadline would instead be released as-completed. I'd like to see a forum based on the v-bulletin platform (used by VAF, AOPA, PBP, POA). Good subtopic organization and moderation would make it into a great resource for the long term. (I'd be willing to volunteer for moderation duties) I know it is easy for me to make these suggestions since I am not volunteering to pull it all together. I just wanted to share with the group how I felt about these things and where I'd like to see it go. However, setting all of my "constructive comments" aside, What we have is much much much better than "nothing" and the newsletter is great. I read it in its entirety every time it comes out. Respectfully Submitted, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224048#224048 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:37 AM PST US From: "Bill O'Brien" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey Have been scribbling notes on how to suggest doing something in the Van's Air Force format. Jim Hausch beat me to it, and did it well. Please, Buz and folks at Airon, go to vansairforce.com and see a site that is highly informative and equally entertaining. Not to mention flexiblee, useable, legible, inviting, and lots of other things that Matronics is certainly not. Personally, I'm a writer, but electronically challenged, so I'm not likely to be of any help, other than cheerleading. Since I plan to build my Lighning at home, I am also very interested in seeing/reading the adventures of others paving that particular road. Meanwhile, good work, Buzz. I'll try to contribute when I have something to say. Bill O'Brien ai't started yet, but will ----- Original Message ----- From: "jhausch" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey > > Survey Response: > > - Of the 11 issues that have been published so far, my favorite lead > article or type of lead article so far has been > > I can't think of just one. All of the newsletters have been great. > > - Please make suggestions for future lead articles. > > Building the lightning at home (not build center) > > A "serial" article going through a build slowly over multiple issues > > > - Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: > Lead article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from > builders and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical > Tips, Skunk Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - > What other section should be included? > > See final comments at end. > > - What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable? > > See final comments at end. > > - It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing? > > Yes > > - What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts > > Unsure what this is. It is not sticking out in my mind. > > - Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future? > > Sure, I suppose when I start my build. . . > > > - Other thoughts and suggestions : > > I think that Buz's work on this newsletter is outstanding. I think the > lightning website is "serviceable, but not exceptional. I think the > builder sites out there (like Jim's Lightning) are interesting reads and > tremendous resources to other builders. I think this Matronics forum is > clunky. > > I think, in today's information-intense world, a newsletter is not the > best medium. To me, VAF (the website and its forums), is among the gold > standard in the Exp AC world for information dissemination, entertainment, > and community. Doug Reeve's runs the primary site, there are many > contributors, he links to the mfr for their news releases, and he even > promotes newsletters and owner websites as he learns of them. There is > also a group of folks who lend assistance with forum moderation. > > I don't know how to make it happen, but I'd like to see that sort of > format grow up around the Lightning community. I see Buz's newsletter > morphing into the main webpage center content. All of the work he does > shooting for a monthly deadline would instead be released as-completed. > > I'd like to see a forum based on the v-bulletin platform (used by VAF, > AOPA, PBP, POA). Good subtopic organization and moderation would make it > into a great resource for the long term. (I'd be willing to volunteer for > moderation duties) > > I know it is easy for me to make these suggestions since I am not > volunteering to pull it all together. I just wanted to share with the > group how I felt about these things and where I'd like to see it go. > > However, setting all of my "constructive comments" aside, What we have is > much much much better than "nothing" and the newsletter is great. I read > it in its entirety every time it comes out. > > Respectfully Submitted, > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224048#224048 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:03 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey From: "bhassel" One of the things that makes a site like Doug Reeves (Vansairforce.net) work is the large number of users. With over 6,000 RV's flying it's pretty easy to get pictures, travel logs, discussion and dialog on a large number of topics. This keeps the site fresh and users returning. You just can't pull off the same level of intensity and interest unless you have a lot of interested parties and input. True the factory web site is weak. If you're used to other manufacturer's web sites it is even difficult to get around. The best thing about the site is the pictures of the Lightning. Again Van's is one of the leader's in information presented and I really consider them behind the power curve in many ways. There are many ways to spice up the web site but that requires money, time and resources that may not be appropriate at point. For the number of Lightning aircraft (in work and finished) the newsletter is great and appropriate. Having a forum would be better than the 'List' but that requires dollars to maintain, software to buy, etc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224059#224059 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:04 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: newsletter survey From: "jhausch" bhassel, I agree the lightning community is nowhere near the size of VAF. I also would not expect one to "throw the switch" on my suggestions and we'd miraculously have an equal offering. However, I wonder if someone with web skills like Jim Langley could create a format/template where someone with the enthusiasm of Buz could post content? - Thereby laying the groundwork for a site which could also (immediately or eventually) hold a v-bulletin based forum. Before we go too long with these musings, here would be some good data to know: 1) How many members/subscribers are on this Matronics lightning list (not all of Matronics, but just this particular list)? 2) To one familiar with both, who prefers this Matronics format to V-bulletin? 3) Who would prefer seeing Buz's efforts directed towards web content rather than monthly newsletter? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224063#224063 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:54 AM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Brian, There is a flight school just outside Stavanger with a Jabiru SP250. You might qualify to fly that and begin to get ahead of the game, although it's very different from the Lightning, it could keep you current and familiar with the Jabitiru engine. If you are interested, I will try to get a contact for you. Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Proett Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hello Lightning Discussion Group - My name is Brian Proett. I have exchanged email with a couple of you to ask a few stupid questions. I am currently living in Norway as a geologist with ExxonMobil. I have always been interested in aviation. I did my PPL training while I was going to college in 73. I am from the DC area. I flew off and on until 1980 when I bought my first house in California which took every spare cent to service the debt. I did not pick it back up until 2003. With a cruel twist of fate, about the same time I found out that I have a congenital heart valve defect that will soon need replacement. Currently I can no longer pass the medical until I have the surgery, after which I should be able to pass the medical again. So here in Norway I have no access to a LSA therefore have no access to flying. With that intro, I am currently satisfying my interest in aviation with the web and doing some passive research. Lightning is my favorite and I plan of taking on the challenge of a build when I retire in about 18 mo. I will be returning to Houston after this assignment. I am hoping that Arion Aircraft will weather the economic storm and will still be flourishing when I am ready. I caught the performance discussion a few weeks ago. I am not interested in a RG but like everyone else I am interested in performance. One direct comparison that I found about performance increase with a retract was with the Glasair SII - They quote a 10 knot increase with a RG vs FG (238 mph vs 228 mph) or about 4%. Marginal in my opinion. More questions: 1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov? Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA. I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will there be two aircraft. 2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts. 3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW). Comments on the newsletter. It is through the news letter and Jim's build site that I became interested in the Lightning and the newsletter remains my best source of info. The newsletter is Lightnings best advertisement. I just became a member of the online discussion group only after reading the newsletters. As I am not a lightning builder/owner, therefore, have very little to contribute. What I am looking for in future newsletters is as much information as possible for a future build in say late 2010 or early 2011. I am interested in performance and problems and solutions that others have encountered to make my build as problem free as possible. I also enjoy the experiences that other owners share. I look forward to becoming part of the community once I return back to the states. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sttwig Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hello all, I don't know about all of you, but I really appreciate the Lightning Newsletters. Besides the Matronics list and emailing Arion it is the only contact I have with the Lightning community. I'm urging all of you to take a couple of minutes and complete the survey that Buz sent out with his announcement of the last newsletter. Buz as editor and the contributors put in a lot of time and effort to make it a worthwhile publication. No response to his survey could be construed to mean that it is not useful. I'm sure that everyone finds something of value to them in every issue, so let Buz know. I have pasted a copy of the survey here for your convenience. Send your response directly to him at n1bzrich@aol.com - Please make suggestions for future lead articles. ____________________________________________. - Note: One of my favorites was Dick Clevenger's "travel log". - Currently each issue is normally divided into the following sections: Lead article, News from the factory, News from the dealers, News from builders and flyers, Feedback from readers, Up coming events, Technical Tips, Skunk Works info, Other information, and Final thoughts. Questions - What other section should be included? ____________________________________________________________________________ _. - What section is the most useful and/or enjoyable? __________________________________________. - It the "Lightning of the Month" selection and photo a good thing? ______________________________ . - What about the past "Centerfold of the Month"? Your thoughts ________________________________. - Would you be willing to submit an article or story in the future? ________________________________. - Almost any subject or topic is OK, but Lightning related would probably be best, but not mandantory. - Other thoughts and suggestions _________________________________________________________. - Remember, I want any feedback, good or bad, and any inputs for future issues. That is the only way this newsletter is going to keep being published and be useful to the group. Remember the newsletter should be helpful and enjoyable to current, future, and potential builders and flyers. I need your help to meet that goal. Steve Sundquist Kit #48 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223791#223791 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:26 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing Gary=2C In the situation that you described I would normally use no flaps. It's really important if you have gusty conditions. I would then add speed to compensate for my lack of flaps=2C and add half the gust factor more. (if you have 15 Gusting 25=2C then add 10 knots of airspeed) I hear what some have said about floating and such and now you're adding airspeed. The flap s out on a really gusty day are going to make things ten times harder thoug h. If you practice and plan your no flap landings the Lightning will do it just fine. Even with the extra speed you could very easily get down and s topped on a 4=2C000 foot long runway without upping the pucker factor too m uch. A few stories that I will pass on about interesting landings: Flying out of Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach was always an interesting thing . With about 2=2C500 training flights a day it was one of the busiest airp orts in the world. It reminds me of flying out of Atlanta with 20 people o n extended final flying parallel approaches into the parallel runways. We often had controllers squeeze us in between aircraft on final and shuffle u s around based on how far the other aircraft were in front of us. One part icular time I turned final in a Cessna 172S and we had a turbo Seneca twin in front. He was trying to speed up the Seneca that was barely in the air. He asked me to give him best forward speed. I went right to 129 knots fo rward speed and to my amazement our ground speed was 165 knots! The contro ller thanked me and asked me to slow when I closed up that gap=2C but also wanted to know what kind of Cessna 172 would do a 190 MPH! I know what you 're thinking=2C why was he landing with a tailwind=2C but if you live on th e coast in Florida you know that the winds 20 miles out=2C such as where fi nal started can be completely different than the coast where you typically get a sea breeze. Another time I was in a Cessna and the guy in front of us was lingering in the air. We were on instrument approach and had been on a long night fligh t. We were completely visual at this point and shooting the approach for p ractice. Well=2C the controller came on and asked if we could go visual an d start a climb same heading and he'd bring us back around to the FAF. I s tarted my climb and intentionally tried to maintain the least ground speed as possible. We got about 2=2C000 feet down the runway and were at 1=2C500 feet when the controller said=2C "if you can get it down you're cleared to land." I told him we could if he could grant us a long landing=2C which h e did. (10.5k long runway) I chopped the power to idle=2C slowed the aircr aft down=2C and put it in a severe side slip until just before landing. We made the midfield taxiway easily. My worst time trying to get a plane on the ground was probably again=2C in a Cessna=2C when I was a Jr. in High School. It can be extremely windy=2C and gusty in the plains part of Arkansas where I grew up. This happens eve n more during winter as far as frequency=2C although we have recorded 100+ MPH straight line winds on multiple occassions ahead of a storm front. I t ook off=2C just fine=2C flew around a while=2C and coming back in for landi ng I noticed that I was hauling on downwind and it was bumpy. Turning fina l I was going up and down. I went around and tried again. This time=2C no flaps=2C forward speed up a little. We had winds gusting from 25-45 which was causing some great discomfort on the part of the pilot. The winds wer en't straight aligned with the runway either. I got it down fine=2C but th at was a very uncomfortable experience for a young pilot. My final story is one with a Lightning. I had been flying for several hour s and saw a storm coming. I wanted to get as much time as possible in that day so I stayed up. I looked again in about 10 minutes and it was coming a lot faster than I thought. I headed towards the airport as this gust fro nt was approaching. I entered downwind and listened to the ASOS. This was a gust front approaching and it was starting to get really rough aand the sky was turning black. I turned final and I could tell that the winds were switching on me=2C but I could also see lightning and start to see rain. I wanted to get down on this go if at all possible. I landed with about a 20 knot tailwind and got back to the hangar just as it started to pour. I believe that if you had your engine stop and then didn't stick the landin g then you can be fine. If you want to know how=2C go out and get your tai lwheel endorsement. Brian W. From: pennington@q.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightnin g-List: turbulant landingDate: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 06:07:29 -0700 Good morning Buz Thanks for your response. When I lifted off=2C winds were North at five=2C clear blue skies. While al oft=2C I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and upright to not ice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I experienced the extremely turbulent updrafts=2C I was abeam the numbers. That is also the time I begi n to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my descent. I'm thinking that with the updrafts and flaps deployed=2C the lift was just too great to allow a d escent. Hence=2C on my third attempt with no flaps=2C no power and pushing the nose over=2C I was able to descend. Mother Nature is a powerful force a nd she is still in charge. I was at Marana Regional Airport. Have a great day. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Saturday=2C January 10=2C 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing Gary=2C What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway=2C variable heading =2C gust factor=2C etc. Which airport in Tucson were you using? Hey=2C ov erall you did a good job. You knew to go around when things didn't look go od and you finally got it down safely. Who cares what it looked like it no thing got bent. Buz New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:09 PM PST US From: "Bob Haas" Subject: FW: Lightning-List: newsletter survey _____ From: Bob Haas [mailto:checkpoint2@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Yes Buzz, you are right, I did lean more to the Site but some times I tend to group all the good information together. I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experiences with the Lightning pro and con. There is a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information from the manufacturer through the dealers to the builders. We all gain from such input, good or bad. I for one would like to see better access to the instrument panel on the Lightning. It has been redesigned and it is better now, how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for easier access. This sort of comment from a builder In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type of article which gets my attention are the first flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other than superior operator skills. Please keep the news letter going, some pilots read and heed. Thanks for the venue, Bob Haas N380 BH. _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hey Bob (and all) Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters? What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can improve them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many people really read the newsletter, but even with Steve's recent prodding to return the survey, only a total of five have done so to this point. Not too impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out with the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the effort that goes into each issue, I am really beginning to wonder if it is really worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey. Buz _____ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:05 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Buz=2C I know that I'm not a builder/owner and therefore don't really qualify a s the target crowd here=2C but I find the newsletter invaluable. The list is also a good way to exchange information=2C but the newsletter gives a ni ce place to build up hype and suspense when new things are released=2C wher eas the list is more of a real time need clarification on a build step venu e. I have probably two good stories in me that I would like to get out and hav e been bad about submitting them. I'll try to get that knocked out here so on and send to you. I too think that it would be a good idea to take a cop y of the newsletter down to my local FBO's and drop off a copy. This could drum up business for Arion=2C but also give us new friends and allow for m ore people to have conversations with about the Lightning. Thanks for your time and effort! Brian W. From: checkpoint2@comcast.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: FW: L ightning-List: newsletter surveyDate: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 16:07:22 -0500 From: Bob Haas [mailto:checkpoint2@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday=2C January 11 =2C 2009 10:33 AMTo: 'lightning-list@matronics.com'Subject: RE: Lightning-L ist: newsletter survey Yes Buzz=2C you are right=2C I did lean more to the Site but so me times I tend to group all the good information together. I would like to see more comments by individual owners regarding experience s with the Lightning pro and con. There is a need for the news letter if nothing else but to correlate information fro m the manufacturer through the dealers to the builders. We all gain from such input=2C good or bad. I for one would like to see better access to the instrument pan el on the Lightning. It has been redesigned and it is better now=2C how ever at the kit design stage perhaps there will be a change for easier access. This sort of comment from a builder In the news letter might generate some thought at that level. Another type of article which gets my attention are the first flight impressions from the test pilots. Problems and corrections other tha n superior operator skills. Please keep the news letter going=2C some pilots read and heed. Thanks for the venue=2C Bob Haas N380 BH. From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.comSent: Saturday=2C Janu ary 10=2C 2009 4:45 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightnin g-List: newsletter survey Hey Bob (and all) Are your comments about the Lightning web site or the Lightning newsletters ? What I am really looking for is feedback on the newsletters so I can imp rove them based on what the readers want to see. I have no idea how many p eople really read the newsletter=2C but even with Steve's recent prodding t o return the survey=2C only a total of five have done so to this point. No t too impressive. Just asking for suggestions in the past has not been too successful getting valid feedback so that is why I sent the survey out wit h the notification that the January issue was now posted. With all the eff ort that goes into each issue=2C I am really beginning to wonder if it is r eally worth the time. That was the purpose of the survey. Buz New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. http:/ /www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp: //www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0 12009 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:34 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Fastening wheel pants to brackets? Thanks, that's what I am going to do too. From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and Jan Disher Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:13 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Fastening wheel pants to brackets? Thats all I did Jim, anchor nuts and washer head screws 10-32 Pete D VH-PDI ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:06 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Fastening wheel pants to brackets? How are you guys fastening the wheel pants to the inside mounting brackets? I was using a screw and Ny Nut, but my hards are SO big that it is almost impossible for me to get in there to hold the nut in place for the screw! Can't I just use T-nuts and the same screws? Jim! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:52 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Thanks Pete, that's perfect! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and Jan Disher Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:47 AM Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Jim, I found a couple of pictures. Pete D You have been sent 2 pictures. IMG_5745.JPG IMG_5682.JPG These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google. Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:37 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Thanks Clive: I got them from this guy: http://www.fairings-etc.com/home.htm I believe we bought the ones for the RV-9, but if you talk to Bob and tell him you want the same ones that he sold Jim Langley for Green Landings, he will get you the correct version. They are very simple to install. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Clive R Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:48 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Jim, these look very neat. Where do you get the spats(pants) and fairings from? Vans or do Arion make them now? Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter and Jan Disher Sent: 11 January 2009 06:47 Subject: Lightning-List: 2 pictures for you Jim, I found a couple of pictures. Pete D You have been sent 2 pictures. IMG_5745.JPG IMG_5682.JPG These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google. Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:43 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Hi Brian, Good to hear from you again. Hope 2009 turns out to be a good year for you in Norway and you can find a way to get some flying time while you are there. When you do get back to the states be sure to stop by Shelbyville for a demo flight. Although many have bought a Lightning before ever flying one, that is not necessary now that a demo aircraft is available as well as many flying Lightnings around the US. As to your questions, I will provide some of my thoughts: 1) LSA vs. Experimental. There seems to be a drift away from the emphasis on performance to LSA with a change in "Mission". What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov? Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA. I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will there be two aircraft. Actually, there is no "change in Mission" for the Lightning, just a temporary shift in emphasis. What has caused the recent emphasis on a Light Sport Lightning is the current "re-write" of the FAA 51% rule. Until that final rule is finalized, the Lightning guys have no way to know if their current kit will meet the new Experimental Amateur Built rule (51% rule). If it does not, they will have to re do the kit so that it will meet the new rule. By getting an SLSA Lightning built and certified, they will be able to continue selling ELSA Lightning kits while the 51% kit is changed. So the recent emphasis on an ASTM certified SLSA Lightning is so they can continue to sell ELSA Lightnings while the EAB kit is redone to meet the new rule (if it does not meet the new rule). They are covering all the bases. Besides, a majority of their customers want a Lightning that can be flown with a Light Sport License. Even though the current EAB Lightning can be built to meet the light sport parameters (a big reason for the long wing and new tips), some potential customers want a kit that can be bought that is more than 51% complete. The ELSA will serve those customers. 2) Will the build quality suffer with a quick build. I want the best possible build and I am a little worried about potential short cuts that might be done to keep on schedule. On the other hand, I would like to build this plane within my lifetime with the aid of experts. I don't think you have any worry at all about short cuts. In fact, unless you have built airplanes before, I would be willing to say you will end up with a better overall airplane by using one of the build centers. You will certainly save lots of time. But remember, they will help you build the basic airplane. If you want extra equipment on the airframe or the panel, that might add some time to the build (and extra time probably equals extra cost). 3) Ergonomics - Can one sit in a Lightning for 4 hours without cramping up? Does the Lightning have adequate back support? I am not a tall person but I do like to sit upright like you do in a German car (BMW or VW). Well, it all depends. How hard a butt do you have? I have sat in my Esqual for over 5 hours and the Lightning seating is certainly more comfortable. Back support is excellent. Don't know how tall you are (I am 6'2", but other Lightning flyers are taller). Also, remember the rudder pedals are adjustable, even while in flight. With extra cushions and lumbar pads that the upholstery guys can make for you, you can pretty much adjust your seat to how ever you like it. Hope all this helps, Blue Skies, Buz **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:36 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: newsletter survey Brian, After re-reading your original message I see I really didn't cover all parts of your questions in the first section. Here goes again: What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e.g. wing, prop, engine gov? Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been certified as a LSA. I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after surgery and I want the max performance that I can get. Alternatively, just go for experimental. I would like to here some comments about the future directions for the Lightning. Will future Lightnings be LSA only or will there be two aircraft. It kind of sounds like you (as well as many others) don't really understand the new light sport rules. First, the current Ligntning kit is built to meet the current 51% rule and all of them are certified in the Experimental Amateur Built category - EAB - not Light Sport certified. However, a person using a light sport pilot's license can fly one IF that particular EAB Lightning meets the light sport parameters - clean stall speed at 45 knots or less, gross weight no more than 1320 pounds, and max continuous rpm cruise of 120 knots. That last requirement is kind of a "good deal" because the 3300 Jabiru engine manual list the max continuous cruise rpm of 2850 rpm (even though the max rpm is 3300). So if you want your EAB Lightning to be able to be flown by a light sport pilot, be sure clean stall speed is 45 knots or less, put on the data plate that max gross weight is 1320 lbs, and put a prop on that gives you a cruise speed of 120 knots at 2850 rpm. Also, when you finish your 40 hour flight test, be sure the first after test period entry in the aircraft log book states that it meets light sport requirements - listing stall speed, max gross, and max continuous cruise speed with the prop that you have installed. The above is how an EAB Lightning can be flown by a light sport pilot. The longer wings help insure the stall speed is low enough, although some regular wing Lightnings have been built at a light enough weight so that they stall slow enough (VGs help). But we have also found that the longer wings are actually a bit faster if you prop the airplane to go faster. But if you put an entry into the aircraft log book indicating that a new prop (or another change) that takes the airplane away from meeting the light sport parameters, than that airplane can not go back to meeting light sport rules. As to the future ELSA Lightning kits, they will have to be built to be exactly like the ASTM certified SLSA Lightning - no builder changes allowed. But remember, they can be more than 49% complete. In the future, Arion plans to have both EAB Lightnings and ELSA Lightings. Long range future may even include SLSA lightnings, but for now, just that initial SLSA Lightning is planned so that ELSA lightning kits can be sold. Confusing? I hope not. Buz **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:56 PM PST US From: rv6n@optonline.net Subject: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA Buz=2C I am glad you wrote this second message to Brian because it helped me cl arify the confusion from your first note=2E I am new to this list and a m currently an RV6 builder-owner-pilot wanting to sell the RV and build a Lightning for the purpose of flying under the LSA rules due to medical reasons=2E My preference is to build a Lightning registered EAB that performs withi n the LSA performance requirements=2E So if I understand this correctly this is quite possible and therefore I am missing the reasoning for the E-LSA version=2E Why would anyone want to do that if the Lighning -EAB can be flown by a sport pilot or private with no medical=3F As an EAB builder I could make changes if I felt like it as long as I was not chan ging the performance for LSA and would qualify for a repairman certifica te=2E As an E-LSA builder with no building options=2C a 16 hour course would be required in order to be eligible to do the annual condition ins pection even after spending all the time to build it=2E I am assuming t hat the FAA previously approved the Lightning kit eligible under the 51=25 rule for EAB registration=2C did it not=3F I honestly do not know if A rion has a =22Letter of Eligibility=22 about that=2C I am hoping they do and that they have a check list for EAB builders=2E I am also hoping t here is sufficient support to help guide me through this quest=2E OK=2C I now have an answer to my big question above=2E It takes my gray smothered head a while to think this stuff through=2E A builder would want to build E-LSA when that builder does not want to do the majority o f the work=2C such as by hiring commercial help=2E There is nothing wro ng with that and that is the real reason for S-LSA and E-LSA=2E Now we all can be happy=2E So it is off to Sebring to start this exciting journey and do more resea rch=2E Now if I can just find a buyer for my beautiful RV6=2E Bob Bales Mattituck=2C NY RV6 N954RB PS=3A lets not forget Matt when we don=27t want this stuff archived for ever=2E Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From=3A N1BZRich=40aol=2Ecom Date=3A Sunday=2C January 11=2C 2009 10=3A04 pm Subject=3A Re=3A Lightning-List=3A newsletter survey To=3A lightning-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E Brian=2C =3E After re-reading your original message I see I really =3E didn=27t cover all =3E parts of your questions in the first section=2E Here goes again=3A =3E What is the difference between the LSA and standard build e=2Eg=2E =3E wing=2C prop=2C =3E engine gov=3F =3E Is it possible to go back to a non LSA once it has been =3E certified as a LSA=2E =3E I am very hopeful that I will be able to pass the medical after =3E surgery and =3E I want the max performance that I can get=2E Alternatively=2C just =3E go for =3E experimental=2E I would like to here some comments about the future =3E directions for the Lightning=2E Will future Lightnings be LSA =3E only or will =3E there be two aircraft=2E =3E It kind of sounds like you (as well as many others) don=27t =3E really =3E understand the new light sport rules=2E First=2C the current =3E Ligntning kit is built to =3E meet the current 51=25 rule and all of them are certified in the =3E Experimental =3E Amateur Built category - EAB - not Light Sport certified=2E =3E However=2C a person =3E using a light sport pilot=27s license can fly one IF that =3E particular EAB =3E Lightning meets the light sport parameters - clean stall speed =3E at 45 knots or less=2C =3E gross weight no more than 1320 pounds=2C and max continuous rpm =3E cruise of 120 =3E knots=2E That last requirement is kind of a =22good deal=22 because =3E the 3300 Jabiru =3E engine manual list the max continuous cruise rpm of 2850 rpm =3E (even though =3E the max rpm is 3300)=2E So if you want your EAB Lightning to be =3E able to be =3E flown by a light sport pilot=2C be sure clean stall speed is 45 =3E knots or less=2C put =3E on the data plate that max gross weight is 1320 lbs=2C and put a =3E prop on that =3E gives you a cruise speed of 120 knots at 2850 rpm=2E Also=2C when =3E you finish your =3E 40 hour flight test=2C be sure the first after test period entry =3E in the =3E aircraft log book states that it meets light sport requirements =3E - listing stall =3E speed=2C max gross=2C and max continuous cruise speed with the prop =3E that you have =3E installed=2E =3E The above is how an EAB Lightning can be flown by a light =3E sport pilot=2E =3E The longer wings help insure the stall speed is low enough=2C =3E although some =3E regular wing Lightnings have been built at a light enough =3E weight so that they =3E stall slow enough (VGs help)=2E But we have also found that the =3E longer wings are =3E actually a bit faster if you prop the airplane to go faster=2E =3E But if you put =3E an entry into the aircraft log book indicating that a new prop =3E (or another =3E change) that takes the airplane away from meeting the light =3E sport parameters=2C =3E than that airplane can not go back to meeting light sport =3E rules=2E =3E As to the future ELSA Lightning kits=2C they will have to be =3E built to be =3E exactly like the ASTM certified SLSA Lightning - no builder =3E changes allowed=2E =3E But remember=2C they can be more than 49=25 complete=2E =3E In the future=2C Arion plans to have both EAB Lightnings and =3E ELSA =3E Lightings=2E Long range future may even include SLSA lightnings=2C =3E but for now=2C just =3E that initial SLSA Lightning is planned so that ELSA lightning =3E kits can be sold=2E =3E Confusing=3F I hope not=2E =3E Buz =3E **************New year=2E=2E=2Enew news=2E Be the first to know what is =3E making =3E headlines=2E (http=3A//news=2Eaol=2Ecom=3Fncid=emlcntusnews0000000 2) =3E ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:36 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA Hi Bob, Good to hear from you. You might want to get in touch with Tex Mantell from New York, or Carl and Pat Beatrice ( I hope I spelled that right from memory) in New Hampshire. Tex is currently building a Lightning at his home and Carl and Pat (previous RV-6 builders) will be starting their Lightning build at SYI in February. Now to clarify some of my previous comments: At this time the current EAB Lightning in not on the approved list of 51% kits. The FAA never got around to inspecting it before they put a moratorium on the inspections. When they do look at it, we feel sure the kit will be approved because the Esqual is on the approved list and it is slightly more complete kit that is the Lighting. It really will depend on the people that actually inspect the current Lightning kit. But until the new 51% rule is out, no more inspections will be done, and the Lightning guys have no way of knowing what will be allowed until the new rule is published. IF the current kit happens to not meet the new rule, they will do what is required so that it will meet that rule, but that might take some time. Certainly some time until the FAA gets around to looking at the kit. So, instead of being totally out of business until that happens, they are going the SLSA and thus ELSA route so they can keep selling Lightnings. Plus, by doing so they meet the needs of those that want to fly with a light sport license, but don't want to build an EAB. Hope this helps, Enjoy Sebring, Buz **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:45 PM PST US From: rv6n@optonline.net Subject: Re: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA Thank you Buz, Since the current kits are not on the Eligible list, and since there is no S-LSA approval yet, therefore no one can build an E-LSA version, how are the current builders proving to the DARs they built 51% of the plane so it can be registered EAB? This is something I would need to know before commiting to build because I would want to be able to do the same. Bob do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA > Hi Bob, > Good to hear from you. You might want to get in touch with > Tex Mantell > from New York, or Carl and Pat Beatrice ( I hope I spelled that > right from > memory) in New Hampshire. Tex is currently building a > Lightning at his home > and Carl and Pat (previous RV-6 builders) will be starting > their Lightning > build at SYI in February. > Now to clarify some of my previous comments: At this time > the current > EAB Lightning in not on the approved list of 51% kits. The FAA > never got > around to inspecting it before they put a moratorium on the > inspections. When > they do look at it, we feel sure the kit will be approved > because the Esqual is > on the approved list and it is slightly more complete kit that > is the > Lighting. It really will depend on the people that actually > inspect the current > Lightning kit. But until the new 51% rule is out, no more > inspections will be > done, and the Lightning guys have no way of knowing what will > be allowed > until the new rule is published. IF the current kit happens to > not meet the new > rule, they will do what is required so that it will meet that > rule, but that > might take some time. Certainly some time until the FAA gets > around to > looking at the kit. So, instead of being totally out of > business until that > happens, they are going the SLSA and thus ELSA route so they > can keep selling > Lightnings. Plus, by doing so they meet the needs of those that > want to fly > with a light sport license, but don't want to build an EAB. > Hope this helps, > Enjoy Sebring, > Buz > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is > making > headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:53 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: EAB S-LSA E-LSA Bob, the key to proving to any DAR that you did 51% of the work is your builders log. Take lots of photos throughout the process to show the DAR. If the DAR has any questions he will ask you. You can also use your builders log when you go to your local FAA office to get your Repairman's certificate. If you use the builder's center at SYI you will have no problem at all. The guys there have it set up so you do at least 51% with their help and the DAR has inspected so many of their airplanes that he has lots of confidence in both their workmanship and accuracy of all paperwork, to include your build log. Buz PS: Some of us have used a computer program called "Kit Log Pro" for the builder's log. It helped me quite a bit when I built the Esqual and then when the chapter built the 601XL. Unfortunately it was not around way back in 1977 when I finished my Pitts. :-) **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. 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