---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/13/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:46 AM - Re: Turbine? (Jim Langley) 2. 05:00 AM - Re: Turbine? (MCPC) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Turbine? (flylightning) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: Turbine? (flylightning) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Newsletter Survey (flylightning) 6. 12:20 PM - turbine (AVN100@aol.com) 7. 05:29 PM - leg fairings (Tex Mantell) 8. 07:03 PM - Re: leg fairings (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 9. 08:11 PM - Re: leg fairings (Jim Langley) 10. 11:06 PM - Off Topic - Gorgeous flight! (Benjamin Smith) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:16 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Turbine? Good points Buz, I also wondered about the cost and size. The high RPM does not bother me so much as Turbines typically have a longer lifespan between overhauls than internal combustion engines, but then I looked at the fuel consumption, and thought that I really didn't want to just fly for and hour and a half. But I could fly really high! Grin. From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:37 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Turbine? Jim, I have looked at turbines in the past, but never really got serious based on their very high expense to buy. But their relatively low weight (I could not find this one's weight) and simplicity always looked good. But several things also concern me - relatively high fuel consumption (this one is about 14.5 gallons per hour at 100 HP). Also, it is hard to even think about an engine that turns about 59,000 rpm. That prop governor must be really something to get the prop down to 3300 or less. I bet the prop is also very expensive - would probably have to be a full feathering one that would probably cost way more than a Jab engine by itself. I also wonder about that 90 degree shaft and exhaust set up. Would that be easy to get under a cowling? Oh one other thing, the way the light sport rule is currently written it has to be in internal combustion engine. That needs to change - or the future electric Sonex will have a problem. Buz _____ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:19 AM PST US From: "MCPC" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Turbine? I have a better solution which is already previously wrote. Diesel engine: http://www.ppdgemini.com/_PDF/Product_Range_B&W_6-08.pdf , http://www.ppdgemini.com/_PDF/Weight_Comparison_6-08_B&W.pdf Roman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Langley" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:43 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Turbine? > Good points Buz, I also wondered about the cost and size. The high RPM does > not bother me so much as Turbines typically have a longer lifespan between > overhauls than internal combustion engines, but then I looked at the fuel > consumption, and thought that I really didn't want to just fly for and hour > and a half. > > > But I could fly really high! Grin. > > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > N1BZRich@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:37 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Turbine? > > > Jim, > > I have looked at turbines in the past, but never really got serious > based on their very high expense to buy. But their relatively low weight (I > could not find this one's weight) and simplicity always looked good. But > several things also concern me - relatively high fuel consumption (this one > is about 14.5 gallons per hour at 100 HP). Also, it is hard to even think > about an engine that turns about 59,000 rpm. That prop governor must be > really something to get the prop down to 3300 or less. I bet the prop is > also very expensive - would probably have to be a full feathering one that > would probably cost way more than a Jab engine by itself. I also wonder > about that 90 degree shaft and exhaust set up. Would that be easy to get > under a cowling? Oh one other thing, the way the light sport rule is > currently written it has to be in internal combustion engine. That needs to > change - or the future electric Sonex will have a problem. > > Buz > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:23 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Turbine? Well, I will believe it when they actually start offering the jabiru in the sport cruiser as they said they would 2 years ago. It may take much more time to figure out a turbine. nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Turbine? Just was reading about these guys. Interesting that SportAircraft Works is saying that they are going to be putting these in their SportCruiser? I can't believe it. http://www.n2turbines.com/index.htm Jim! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:24 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Turbine? Also no in flight or constant speed props in LSA nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Turbine? Jim, I have looked at turbines in the past, but never really got serious based on their very high expense to buy. But their relatively low weight (I could not find this one's weight) and simplicity always looked good. But several things also concern me - relatively high fuel consumption (this one is about 14.5 gallons per hour at 100 HP). Also, it is hard to even think about an engine that turns about 59,000 rpm. That prop governor must be really something to get the prop down to 3300 or less. I bet the prop is also very expensive - would probably have to be a full feathering one that would probably cost way more than a Jab engine by itself. I also wonder about that 90 degree shaft and exhaust set up. Would that be easy to get under a cowling? Oh one other thing, the way the light sport rule is currently written it has to be in internal combustion engine. That needs to change - or the future electric Sonex will have a problem. Buz _____ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:42 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Newsletter Survey You are welcome to check out www.flylightning.net/Owners.htm and take a look at the build manual. Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Yee Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Newsletter Survey Hello Lightning List, Regarding the newsletter, I think it is important in that it is the main source of information for the Lightning since the factory website is not updated regularly and does not provide any build information to anyone who has not purchased a kit already. The Lightning initially caught my eye from an advertisement in the EAA Sport Aviation. Since then, my primary sources of information on it has been Jim's jimslightning.com site, flylightning.net, and greenlandings.com. I followed Jim's build log all last year. I would like to see the newsletter continue to be enhanced and perhaps follow the model of the Van's RVator newsletter. I find articles on builder tips and trip logs interesting to read. It is also interesting to hear about what new things might be coming out of the factory. I find the Matronics list awkward to use. I receive the emails in digest form so I get one big email a day. It is hard to read the emails because they become so long whenever people reply to an email thread a lot. I would prefer starting up a google group, a vBulletin site, or a site such as http://www.eaa119.org (which I maintain) that consists of content management software called Drupal and the MySQL database. The nice thing about a site run by Drupal is that members can add content themselves without them having to know anything about HTML and this content can be moderated. It features a calendar, stories, and blogs. I would even offer to set up, host, and help administer the site for free (or perhaps a discount on a kit in the future). Regards, Richard Yee ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:08 PM PST US From: AVN100@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: turbine First, Ref Richard Yee's complaint about the awkward forum format. Couldn't agree with you more. Mattronics is a charming, one guy operation and personal anachronism. The clunky steam engine of on line forums. Yahoo hosts the easiest and most flexible user group forums which generate no spam but the Arion guys have some kinda personal beef against them and refuse to support any Yahoo Lightning group. Now Ref Jim Langley being skeptical of a turboprop Sport Cruiser. Couldn't agree with you more. And with good reason not just personal preference as above. First is airframe quality. Simplest insight? Compare Vne of _Lightning@208mph_ (mailto:Lightning@208mph) with Vne of _SC@160mph_ (mailto:SC@160mph) suggesting Lightning is 25% stronger if properly assembled. Second is company track record. Manufacturer CZAW is notorious for deceptive marketing and false delivery promises on the SC. Last year it was and possibly still is under bankruptcy pressure. These turboprop sport cruiser guys were/are their US arm (Sport Aircraft Works aka WetAero aka N2Turbines) . Danny took hundreds of deposits on the Mermaid Sport Amphibian, then flip flopped for four years doing his own backyard R&D on Rotax vs Jabiru power. In all this time after all the show appearances with pretty Czech girls and endless promises, he has delivered exactly one Mermaid while promising "four more are 85% complete" and in his marketing having the balls to diss likely delivery dates of competing SLSA amphibs. With creation of WetAero, Mermaid price increased from $75,000 to $175,000 loaded. While claiming it will now be US made, their website price list adds $4225 for customs clearance and shipping. You pays your money - you takes your chances. IMHO they are and always have been, like Jim Bede, charming and well-intentioned folks but ludicrously overextended and unreliable. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:54 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Lightning-List: leg fairings Has anyone got directions for the leg fairings? Tex ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:35 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: leg fairings In a message dated 1/13/2009 8:30:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wb2ssj@frontiernet.net writes: Has anyone got directions for the leg fairings? Tex The wider end goes at the top. ;-) Buz **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:53 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: leg fairings First rule is to create a template out of cardboard. You want to use the wide part at the top. Cut on the small side. I went through two cardboard templates before I got the cardboard cutout right. Then I wrapped the cardboard around the fairing and transferred the cutout with a black marker. I cut larger and trimmed it down to fit with a dremmel. I guess my RC days come into play here, but mine fits like a glove. Put some rubber edging around the top of the fairing so it doesn't scratch the paint. Use the hinge method described by Arion. I thought I would be able to secure the fairing with Velcro, but the Velcro is not strong enough to hold the ends together. Now I am going to have to go back and repaint them unless I come up with something else. Use the hinge. From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Lightning-List: leg fairings Has anyone got directions for the leg fairings? Tex ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:35 PM PST US From: Benjamin Smith Subject: Lightning-List: Off Topic - Gorgeous flight! The other day I took two of my sons out for a 1.5 hour flight in a rental plane just for some sight-seeing. It was late in the day, smoke/haze on the ground, otherwise a beautiful day. We took off, and after climbing 500 ft, busted through the haze into gorgeously clean, cool air. Visibility was unlimited, snow-capped mountains 200 miles away were crystal clear. A thin, wispy blanket of smoke and fog below made the distant mountains stand out that much more, off in the distance. Traffic was light, so ATC was very quiet. We joked, looked at the local college, flew over some lakes, a local air force base, and some mountains while we watched the sun set off our left wing. We made a big, slow, 10 mile loop back towards home over a nearby town and checked out the sights against an intense orange, red, and purple sunset in sharp relief against a jagged, inky black mountain silhouette. As we headed home, night fell, and the moon split the horizon and our right wing. We got a gorgeous picture of the sharp, full moon reflected below by water in irrigated fields, and above by the wing bottom. I'll never forget that moon - it looked like the wing would hit it if I turned the yoke just a little too much. We floated in low over a gorgeous blanket of city lights at just 1,200 AGL as we entered a gradual, straight-in final at our local airport. The air was as smooth as glass. I landed a bit long, touchdown was a gentle bump with just a mild chirp of the tires. "Exit taxiway echo, taxi to parking, monitor ground". Man I love flying! -- "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." Leonardo da Vinci -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.