Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:34 AM - FW: Aircraft ID - Help us out here richard, what is it? (James, Clive R)
2. 11:34 AM - Re: turbulant landing (James, Clive R)
3. 04:50 PM - Re: turbulant landing (GARY PENNINGTON)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Aircraft ID - Help us out here richard, what is it? |
There you go! Bit late though I see someone got there first, CJ
________________________________
From: Philip Snowden [mailto:phil_snowden@hotmail.com]
Sent: 13 January 2009 14:26
Subject: FW: Lightning-List: Aircraft ID - Help us out here richard,
what is it?
________________________________
From: Richard.Peck@marshallaerospace.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Aircraft ID - Help us out here richard,
what is it?
It is a Beech 1900D. It is about a 15 seat commuter aircraft. Seating
is 1 - 1 so at least you get an aisle and window seat.
Richard
________________________________
From: Philip Snowden [mailto:phil_snowden@hotmail.com]
Sent: 13 January 2009 08:20
Subject: FW: Lightning-List: Aircraft ID - Help us out here richard,
what is it?
Help us out here richard, what is it?
Phil
________________________________
Subject: FW: Lightning-List: Aircraft ID
From: clive.james@uk.bp.com
You know what this is?
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Patterson
Sent: 12 January 2009 08:31
Subject: Lightning-List: Aircraft ID
My brother-in-law (a San Diego lad) took this picture in Malawi
yesterday. It is the aircraft the company is considering as their new
corporate ride. My reference books are out of date so were no use to me
in identifying it for him. Any ideas????
Cheers from Perth Australia
Wayne P
(Kit #65)
________________________________
Are you a PC? Upload your PC story and show the world Click Here!
Marshall of Cambridge Aerospace Ltd
Registered Office: Airport House, The Airport, Cambridge, CB5 8RX,
England
Registered in England. Number 245740
This e-mail is in confidence and may also be privileged. You should not
copy or disclose its contents to any other person. If you are not the
intended recipient please delete this e-mail immediately. This message
has been checked for viruses by MessageLabs.
________________________________
Are you a PC? Upload your PC story and show the world Click Here!
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | turbulant landing |
Gary, sounds like an exciting ride!
My only thought, not knowing the topography was would there have been
somewhere else to go that wouldn't have been so turbulent?. I've just
been surfing Google Earth and maps and it seems to be a fairly hilly
area so that probably wasn't an option for you.
I've only once been caught as you describe. Returning from France to my
home field in the East of England we'd been flying for two hours and
knew there was a storm front moving SE towards our destination. I was
monitoring the ATIS at my local municipal (west of destination) and
there was a steady 8 knots blowing all the while we moved up from the
Channel towards home. When we were 30 miles out it started to get a
little bumpy and then the ATIS swiftly changed to 20 gusting 40 or
somesuch. We turned back to the last airfield we'd flown over to sit it
out only to find I could get anywhere near the ground in enough control
to land.
Only solution was to move further away from the weather and out run it.
15 miles further east is was still a little windy but the gusting was
much reduced and we managed it OK despite a hefty crosswind.
The wife had asked after two approaches to the gusty runway, what do we
do now? I confidently said 'we've enough fuel to get back to France' to
put her at ease and make me feel better, hoping that we could get away
from the front far enough to some smooth air. I was lucky as it was the
case. Also a point to add is the biggest hill in Norfolk UK is 280 feet!
We ate our lunch and flew home 2 hours later in a still air.
As was said before, a slap from Mother nature isn't so pleasant! Another
I learned about flying from that.....
Thanks for sharing yours.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: 12 January 2009 13:57
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Good morning Brian
Thank you for responding. I am headed out to the airport this morning to
practice various scenarios and will try your recommendations.
Thanks again and have a great day.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Whittingham <mailto:dashvii@hotmail.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary,
In the situation that you described I would normally use no
flaps. It's really important if you have gusty conditions. I would
then add speed to compensate for my lack of flaps, and add half the gust
factor more. (if you have 15 Gusting 25, then add 10 knots of airspeed)
I hear what some have said about floating and such and now you're adding
airspeed. The flaps out on a really gusty day are going to make things
ten times harder though. If you practice and plan your no flap landings
the Lightning will do it just fine. Even with the extra speed you could
very easily get down and stopped on a 4,000 foot long runway without
upping the pucker factor too much.
A few stories that I will pass on about interesting landings:
Flying out of Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach was always an
interesting thing. With about 2,500 training flights a day it was one
of the busiest airports in the world. It reminds me of flying out of
Atlanta with 20 people on extended final flying parallel approaches into
the parallel runways. We often had controllers squeeze us in between
aircraft on final and shuffle us around based on how far the other
aircraft were in front of us. One particular time I turned final in a
Cessna 172S and we had a turbo Seneca twin in front. He was trying to
speed up the Seneca that was barely in the air. He asked me to give him
best forward speed. I went right to 129 knots forward speed and to my
amazement our ground speed was 165 knots! The controller thanked me and
asked me to slow when I closed up that gap, but also wanted to know what
kind of Cessna 172 would do a 190 MPH! I know what you're thinking, why
was he landing with a tailwind, but if you live on the coast in Florida
you know that the winds 20 miles out, such as where final started can be
completely different than the coast where you typically get a sea
breeze.
Another time I was in a Cessna and the guy in front of us was
lingering in the air. We were on instrument approach and had been on a
long night flight. We were completely visual at this point and shooting
the approach for practice. Well, the controller came on and asked if we
could go visual and start a climb same heading and he'd bring us back
around to the FAF. I started my climb and intentionally tried to
maintain the least ground speed as possible. We got about 2,000 feet
down the runway and were at 1,500 feet when the controller said, "if you
can get it down you're cleared to land." I told him we could if he
could grant us a long landing, which he did. (10.5k long runway) I
chopped the power to idle, slowed the aircraft down, and put it in a
severe side slip until just before landing. We made the midfield
taxiway easily.
My worst time trying to get a plane on the ground was probably
again, in a Cessna, when I was a Jr. in High School. It can be
extremely windy, and gusty in the plains part of Arkansas where I grew
up. This happens even more during winter as far as frequency, although
we have recorded 100+ MPH straight line winds on multiple occassions
ahead of a storm front. I took off, just fine, flew around a while, and
coming back in for landing I noticed that I was hauling on downwind and
it was bumpy. Turning final I was going up and down. I went around and
tried again. This time, no flaps, forward speed up a little. We had
winds gusting from 25-45 which was causing some great discomfort on the
part of the pilot. The winds weren't straight aligned with the runway
either. I got it down fine, but that was a very uncomfortable
experience for a young pilot.
My final story is one with a Lightning. I had been flying for
several hours and saw a storm coming. I wanted to get as much time as
possible in that day so I stayed up. I looked again in about 10 minutes
and it was coming a lot faster than I thought. I headed towards the
airport as this gust front was approaching. I entered downwind and
listened to the ASOS. This was a gust front approaching and it was
starting to get really rough aand the sky was turning black. I turned
final and I could tell that the winds were switching on me, but I could
also see lightning and start to see rain. I wanted to get down on this
go if at all possible. I landed with about a 20 knot tailwind and got
back to the hangar just as it started to pour.
I believe that if you had your engine stop and then didn't stick
the landing then you can be fine. If you want to know how, go out and
get your tailwheel endorsement. Brian W.
________________________________
From: pennington@q.com
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:07:29 -0700
Good morning Buz
Thanks for your response.
When I lifted off, winds were North at five, clear blue skies.
While aloft, I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and
upright to notice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I
experienced the extremely turbulent updrafts, I was abeam the numbers.
That is also the time I begin to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my
descent. I'm thinking that with the updrafts and flaps deployed, the
lift was just too great to allow a descent. Hence, on my third attempt
with no flaps, no power and pushing the nose over, I was able to
descend. Mother Nature is a powerful force and she is still in charge. I
was at Marana Regional Airport.
Have a great day.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary,
What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway,
variable heading, gust factor, etc. Which airport in Tucson were you
using? Hey, overall you did a good job. You knew to go around when
things didn't look good and you finally got it down safely. Who cares
what it looked like it nothing got bent.
Buz
________________________________
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines <http://news.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002> .
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
<http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200
9>
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: turbulant landing |
Hello Clive
It was good to hear from you and thanks for sharing with me. I hope your
day is great.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: James, Clive R<mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:31 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
<clive.james@uk.bp.com<mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>>
Gary, sounds like an exciting ride!
My only thought, not knowing the topography was would there have been
somewhere else to go that wouldn't have been so turbulent?. I've just
been surfing Google Earth and maps and it seems to be a fairly hilly
area so that probably wasn't an option for you.
I've only once been caught as you describe. Returning from France to
my
home field in the East of England we'd been flying for two hours and
knew there was a storm front moving SE towards our destination. I was
monitoring the ATIS at my local municipal (west of destination) and
there was a steady 8 knots blowing all the while we moved up from the
Channel towards home. When we were 30 miles out it started to get a
little bumpy and then the ATIS swiftly changed to 20 gusting 40 or
somesuch. We turned back to the last airfield we'd flown over to sit
it
out only to find I could get anywhere near the ground in enough
control
to land.
Only solution was to move further away from the weather and out run
it.
15 miles further east is was still a little windy but the gusting was
much reduced and we managed it OK despite a hefty crosswind.
The wife had asked after two approaches to the gusty runway, what do
we
do now? I confidently said 'we've enough fuel to get back to France'
to
put her at ease and make me feel better, hoping that we could get away
from the front far enough to some smooth air. I was lucky as it was
the
case. Also a point to add is the biggest hill in Norfolk UK is 280
feet!
We ate our lunch and flew home 2 hours later in a still air.
As was said before, a slap from Mother nature isn't so pleasant!
Another
I learned about flying from that.....
Thanks for sharing yours.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-lightning-list-ser
ver@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: 12 January 2009 13:57
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Good morning Brian
Thank you for responding. I am headed out to the airport this morning
to
practice various scenarios and will try your recommendations.
Thanks again and have a great day.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Whittingham
<mailto:dashvii@hotmail.com<mailto:dashvii@hotmail.com>>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary,
In the situation that you described I would normally use no
flaps. It's really important if you have gusty conditions. I would
then add speed to compensate for my lack of flaps, and add half the
gust
factor more. (if you have 15 Gusting 25, then add 10 knots of
airspeed)
I hear what some have said about floating and such and now you're
adding
airspeed. The flaps out on a really gusty day are going to make
things
ten times harder though. If you practice and plan your no flap
landings
the Lightning will do it just fine. Even with the extra speed you
could
very easily get down and stopped on a 4,000 foot long runway without
upping the pucker factor too much.
A few stories that I will pass on about interesting landings:
Flying out of Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach was always an
interesting thing. With about 2,500 training flights a day it was one
of the busiest airports in the world. It reminds me of flying out of
Atlanta with 20 people on extended final flying parallel approaches
into
the parallel runways. We often had controllers squeeze us in between
aircraft on final and shuffle us around based on how far the other
aircraft were in front of us. One particular time I turned final in a
Cessna 172S and we had a turbo Seneca twin in front. He was trying to
speed up the Seneca that was barely in the air. He asked me to give
him
best forward speed. I went right to 129 knots forward speed and to my
amazement our ground speed was 165 knots! The controller thanked me
and
asked me to slow when I closed up that gap, but also wanted to know
what
kind of Cessna 172 would do a 190 MPH! I know what you're thinking,
why
was he landing with a tailwind, but if you live on the coast in
Florida
you know that the winds 20 miles out, such as where final started can
be
completely different than the coast where you typically get a sea
breeze.
Another time I was in a Cessna and the guy in front of us was
lingering in the air. We were on instrument approach and had been on
a
long night flight. We were completely visual at this point and
shooting
the approach for practice. Well, the controller came on and asked if
we
could go visual and start a climb same heading and he'd bring us back
around to the FAF. I started my climb and intentionally tried to
maintain the least ground speed as possible. We got about 2,000 feet
down the runway and were at 1,500 feet when the controller said, "if
you
can get it down you're cleared to land." I told him we could if he
could grant us a long landing, which he did. (10.5k long runway) I
chopped the power to idle, slowed the aircraft down, and put it in a
severe side slip until just before landing. We made the midfield
taxiway easily.
My worst time trying to get a plane on the ground was probably
again, in a Cessna, when I was a Jr. in High School. It can be
extremely windy, and gusty in the plains part of Arkansas where I grew
up. This happens even more during winter as far as frequency,
although
we have recorded 100+ MPH straight line winds on multiple occassions
ahead of a storm front. I took off, just fine, flew around a while,
and
coming back in for landing I noticed that I was hauling on downwind
and
it was bumpy. Turning final I was going up and down. I went around
and
tried again. This time, no flaps, forward speed up a little. We had
winds gusting from 25-45 which was causing some great discomfort on
the
part of the pilot. The winds weren't straight aligned with the runway
either. I got it down fine, but that was a very uncomfortable
experience for a young pilot.
My final story is one with a Lightning. I had been flying for
several hours and saw a storm coming. I wanted to get as much time as
possible in that day so I stayed up. I looked again in about 10
minutes
and it was coming a lot faster than I thought. I headed towards the
airport as this gust front was approaching. I entered downwind and
listened to the ASOS. This was a gust front approaching and it was
starting to get really rough aand the sky was turning black. I turned
final and I could tell that the winds were switching on me, but I
could
also see lightning and start to see rain. I wanted to get down on
this
go if at all possible. I landed with about a 20 knot tailwind and got
back to the hangar just as it started to pour.
I believe that if you had your engine stop and then didn't stick
the landing then you can be fine. If you want to know how, go out and
get your tailwheel endorsement. Brian W.
________________________________
From: pennington@q.com<mailto:pennington@q.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:07:29 -0700
Good morning Buz
Thanks for your response.
When I lifted off, winds were North at five, clear blue skies.
While aloft, I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air and
upright to notice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment I
experienced the extremely turbulent updrafts, I was abeam the numbers.
That is also the time I begin to drop flaps and reduce throttle for my
descent. I'm thinking that with the updrafts and flaps deployed, the
lift was just too great to allow a descent. Hence, on my third attempt
with no flaps, no power and pushing the nose over, I was able to
descend. Mother Nature is a powerful force and she is still in charge.
I
was at Marana Regional Airport.
Have a great day.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com<mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: turbulant landing
Gary,
What were the actual winds? Degrees off the runway,
variable heading, gust factor, etc. Which airport in Tucson were you
using? Hey, overall you did a good job. You knew to go around when
things didn't look good and you finally got it down safely. Who cares
what it looked like it nothing got bent.
Buz
________________________________
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines
<http://news.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002<http://news.aol.com/?nc
id=emlcntusnews00000002>> .
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
r<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr>
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://f
orums.matronics.com%22%3ehttp//forums.matronics.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
<http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_0120
0<http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012
00>
9>
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
r<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr>
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://f
orums.matronics.com%22%3ehttp//forums.matronics.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Lightning-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|