---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/15/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:44 PM - Re: turbulant landing (Brian Whittingham) 2. 08:16 PM - Icy Cold? (Wayne Patterson) 3. 08:37 PM - Re: Icy Cold? (Hugh Sontag) 4. 09:12 PM - Re: Icy Cold? () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:04 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing Buz=2C You didn't happen to know the pilot=2C Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger=2C i n the US Air 1549 crash did you? I saw he was an AF F-4 pilot and Academy grad. Looks like he did an awesome job of flying the aircraft as far into the crash as possible. Brian W. From: pennington@q.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightnin g-List: turbulant landingDate: Wed=2C 14 Jan 2009 17:49:30 -0700 Hello Clive It was good to hear from you and thanks for sharing with me. I hope your da y is great. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: James=2C Clive R Sent: Wednesday=2C January 14=2C 2009 12:31 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: turbulant landing .com>Gary=2C sounds like an exciting ride!My only thought=2C not knowing th e topography was would there have beensomewhere else to go that wouldn't ha ve been so turbulent?. I've justbeen surfing Google Earth and maps and it s eems to be a fairly hillyarea so that probably wasn't an option for you.I'v e only once been caught as you describe. Returning from France to myhome fi eld in the East of England we'd been flying for two hours andknew there was a storm front moving SE towards our destination. I wasmonitoring the ATIS at my local municipal (west of destination) andthere was a steady 8 knots b lowing all the while we moved up from theChannel towards home. When we were 30 miles out it started to get alittle bumpy and then the ATIS swiftly cha nged to 20 gusting 40 orsomesuch. We turned back to the last airfield we'd flown over to sit itout only to find I could get anywhere near the ground i n enough controlto land. Only solution was to move further away from the we ather and out run it.15 miles further east is was still a little windy but the gusting wasmuch reduced and we managed it OK despite a hefty crosswind. The wife had asked after two approaches to the gusty runway=2C what do wedo now? I confidently said 'we've enough fuel to get back to France' toput he r at ease and make me feel better=2C hoping that we could get awayfrom the front far enough to some smooth air. I was lucky as it was thecase. Also a point to add is the biggest hill in Norfolk UK is 280 feet!We ate our lunch and flew home 2 hours later in a still air.As was said before=2C a slap fr om Mother nature isn't so pleasant! AnotherI learned about flying from that .....Thanks for sharing yours.Regards=2C Clive -----Original Message-----Fr om: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-lightning-list-s erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARYPENNINGTONSent: 12 January 2009 13:57 ingGood morning Brian Thank you for responding. I am headed out to the airp ort this morning topractice various scenarios and will try your recommendat ions. Thanks again and have a great day. Gary Pennington----- Original Mess age ----- From: Brian Whittingham To: lightni ng-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday=2C January 11=2C 2009 1:53 PMSubject: RE : Lightning-List: turbulant landingGary=2C In the situation that you desc ribed I would normally use noflaps. It's really important if you have gust y conditions. I wouldthen add speed to compensate for my lack of flaps=2C and add half the gustfactor more. (if you have 15 Gusting 25=2C then add 1 0 knots of airspeed)I hear what some have said about floating and such and now you're addingairspeed. The flaps out on a really gusty day are going t o make thingsten times harder though. If you practice and plan your no fla p landingsthe Lightning will do it just fine. Even with the extra speed yo u couldvery easily get down and stopped on a 4=2C000 foot long runway witho utupping the pucker factor too much. A few stories that I will pass on abo ut interesting landings:Flying out of Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach was alw ays aninteresting thing. With about 2=2C500 training flights a day it was oneof the busiest airports in the world. It reminds me of flying out ofAtl anta with 20 people on extended final flying parallel approaches intothe pa rallel runways. We often had controllers squeeze us in betweenaircraft on final and shuffle us around based on how far the otheraircraft were in fron t of us. One particular time I turned final in aCessna 172S and we had a t urbo Seneca twin in front. He was trying tospeed up the Seneca that was ba rely in the air. He asked me to give himbest forward speed. I went right to 129 knots forward speed and to myamazement our ground speed was 165 knot s! The controller thanked me andasked me to slow when I closed up that gap =2C but also wanted to know whatkind of Cessna 172 would do a 190 MPH! I k now what you're thinking=2C whywas he landing with a tailwind=2C but if you live on the coast in Floridayou know that the winds 20 miles out=2C such a s where final started can becompletely different than the coast where you t ypically get a seabreeze.Another time I was in a Cessna and the guy in fron t of us waslingering in the air. We were on instrument approach and had be en on along night flight. We were completely visual at this point and shoo tingthe approach for practice. Well=2C the controller came on and asked if wecould go visual and start a climb same heading and he'd bring us backaro und to the FAF. I started my climb and intentionally tried tomaintain the least ground speed as possible. We got about 2=2C000 feetdown the runway a nd were at 1=2C500 feet when the controller said=2C "if youcan get it down you're cleared to land." I told him we could if hecould grant us a long la nding=2C which he did. (10.5k long runway) Ichopped the power to idle=2C s lowed the aircraft down=2C and put it in asevere side slip until just befor e landing. We made the midfieldtaxiway easily.My worst time trying to get a plane on the ground was probablyagain=2C in a Cessna=2C when I was a Jr. in High School. It can beextremely windy=2C and gusty in the plains part o f Arkansas where I grewup. This happens even more during winter as far as frequency=2C althoughwe have recorded 100+ MPH straight line winds on multi ple occassionsahead of a storm front. I took off=2C just fine=2C flew arou nd a while=2C andcoming back in for landing I noticed that I was hauling on downwind andit was bumpy. Turning final I was going up and down. I went around andtried again. This time=2C no flaps=2C forward speed up a little. We hadwinds gusting from 25-45 which was causing some great discomfort on thepart of the pilot. The winds weren't straight aligned with the runwaye ither. I got it down fine=2C but that was a very uncomfortableexperience f or a young pilot.My final story is one with a Lightning. I had been flying forseveral hours and saw a storm coming. I wanted to get as much time asp ossible in that day so I stayed up. I looked again in about 10 minutesand it was coming a lot faster than I thought. I headed towards theairport as this gust front was approaching. I entered downwind andlistened to the ASO S. This was a gust front approaching and it wasstarting to get really roug h aand the sky was turning black. I turnedfinal and I could tell that the winds were switching on me=2C but I couldalso see lightning and start to se e rain. I wanted to get down on thisgo if at all possible. I landed with about a 20 knot tailwind and gotback to the hangar just as it started to po ur. I believe that if you had your engine stop and then didn't stickthe la nding then you can be fine. If you want to know how=2C go out andget your tailwheel endorsement. Brian W.________________________________From: penni ngton@q.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightning-List: tur bulant landingDate: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 06:07:29 -0700Good morning BuzThanks for your response.When I lifted off=2C winds were North at five=2C clear b lue skies.While aloft=2C I was too busy trying to hold my plane in the air andupright to notice the winds shown on the EFIS. At the moment Iexperience d the extremely turbulent updrafts=2C I was abeam the numbers.That is also the time I begin to drop flaps and reduce throttle for mydescent. I'm think ing that with the updrafts and flaps deployed=2C thelift was just too great to allow a descent. Hence=2C on my third attemptwith no flaps=2C no power and pushing the nose over=2C I was able todescend. Mother Nature is a power ful force and she is still in charge. Iwas at Marana Regional Airport. Have a great day.Gary----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: li ghtning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday=2C January 10=2C 2009 2:32 PMSubj ect: Lightning-List: turbulant landingGary=2C What were the actual winds ? Degrees off the runway=2Cvariable heading=2C gust factor=2C etc. Which airport in Tucson were youusing? Hey=2C overall you did a good job. You k new to go around whenthings didn't look good and you finally got it down sa fely. Who careswhat it looked like it nothing got bent.Buz _______________ _________________New year...new news. Be the first to know what is makinghe adlines .title=http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="htt p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cst">http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribu tion________________________________Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in syn c. Check it out. title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Lis thref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http ://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http: //www.matronics.com/chttp://forums.matronics.com_p=3B generous bsp=3B title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http: //www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===== =========== _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h owitworks_012009 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:17 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Icy Cold? From: "Wayne Patterson" For those souls in the frozen USA north - we just topped 43C (109F) in Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes ago (1.00pm). The airport is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is at 44C (111.5F). South Australia is due for even higher temperatures tomorrow - so Dennis at Kingston should be very warm. Wayne Patterson LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP PO Box 398 South Perth 6951 08 94742126 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:34 PM PST US From: Hugh Sontag Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Icy Cold? Maybe a little colder than usual. It will be -20 F (-29 C) tonight (actually around 6 AM tomorrow morning) here in balmy St. Paul, Minnesota. Somewhere two hundred miles north, it should be -40 (F or C). Hugh Sontag >For those souls in the frozen USA north - we just topped 43C (109F) >in Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes ago (1.00pm). The >airport is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is at 44C (111.5F). > >South Australia is due for even higher temperatures tomorrow - so >Dennis at Kingston should be very warm. > >Wayne Patterson >LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP >PO Box 398 South Perth 6951 >08 94742126 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Icy Cold? Ah, no worries, Wayne, I'm in So. Calif and we were in the 90's the last three days! -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. Arden ---- Wayne Patterson wrote: > For those souls in the frozen USA north - we just topped 43C (109F) in > Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes ago (1.00pm). The airport > is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is at 44C (111.5F). > > > > South Australia is due for even higher temperatures tomorrow - so Dennis > at Kingston should be very warm. > > > > Wayne Patterson > > LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP > > PO Box 398 South Perth 6951 > > 08 94742126 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.