Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Sedona flight (Peter and Jan Disher)
2. 03:11 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (Hugh Sontag)
3. 03:19 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (Tex Mantell)
4. 03:46 AM - Re: Sedona flight (GARY PENNINGTON)
5. 03:48 AM - Re: Sedona flight (GARY PENNINGTON)
6. 04:02 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (James, Clive R)
7. 04:09 AM - Re: Sedona flight (GARY PENNINGTON)
8. 04:10 AM - Re: Sedona flight (GARY PENNINGTON)
9. 04:19 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (GARY PENNINGTON)
10. 04:47 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (Malcolm Ferguson)
11. 05:30 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (Brian Whittingham)
12. 09:58 AM - Lightning RG (Brian Whittingham)
13. 11:46 AM - Re: Lightning RG (Jim Langley)
14. 02:40 PM - Re: Lightning RG (N1BZRich@aol.com)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Lightning RG (Brian Whittingham)
16. 03:43 PM - Re: Lightning RG (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sedona flight |
Hi Gary, enjoyed reading about you trip and just wished you had photos
to show us, maybe next time, amassing how high your terrain is there ,
we have nothing like that here in OZ. I have always had an Rand McNally
and is interesting to be able to follow your trip.
I have just about 10hrs to fly off and I hopefully will be off tripping
around.
thanks
Pete D
VH-PDI
Kit 30
---- Original Message -----
From: GARY PENNINGTON
To: lightning-list
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:11 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
Good morning everyone.
My flight yesterday morning was memorable and I would like to share it
with those who are interested. I live in Tucson, Arizona and fly out of
Marana Regional Airport....about a 30 minute drive from my home. Marana
is a small town some 10 miles or so North of Tucson. It has a very well
maintained airport within Class "E" airspace.
When departing, sky conditions were clear and sunny with a temp about
50 degrees Fahrenheit. Wind was Northeast at 6. The air was bumpy below
4000' but very smooth above that. On course, I performed a gradual climb
to 11000' for clearance above the mountain range 80 miles North of
Marana. Overflying the mountains, I could see Apache Lake and Roosevelt
Lake below. They are nestled in deep canyons formed by the Salt River.
Nary a soul on the water.
Roosevelt Dam was my first waypoint and is a massive structure several
hundred feet tall and spans the canyon a quarter mile or so. It was
built during the early 1900's from massive stone blocks and later
encased in concrete. The adjoining bridge is a cable supported structure
stretching out a half mile or more over the water.
At the dam, I changed course for the town of Payson, a small but very
scenic community situated at the base of the Mogollon Rim. The "Rim" as
we call it, is a mountain range that extends approximately 100 miles in
an Easterly/Westerly fashion and tops out around 8000'. Covered in pine
trees and dusted with snow, it is a prominent landmark and a very
pleasant drive by car if you are so inclined.
At Payson, my course changed for Sedona. On this leg, I traversed two
impressive geological formations, the "Fossil Springs Wilderness Area"
and the "West Clear Creek Wilderness Area". They are well known to
hikers as some of the most beautiful natural areas in the country.
Someday, I'll have to hike it, but for now, it feels pretty darn good
the fly overhead in my Lightning.
With Sedona some 10 miles ahead, I could see Flagstaff and Humphreys
Peak to the North. Humphreys Peak reaches skyward 12633' and is
blanketed in snow. It is visible for 100 miles or more.
By now I could clearly see Sedona. It is unmistakable. If you have
never been there, you are missing a very special treat. It is famous for
it's "red dirt" and multi colored mountains and rock formations. Colors
vary from red to orange to yellow and every color in between. The locals
claim Sedona is the center for some sort of earthly energy source....or
something to that effect. None-the-less, by car, it is breathtaking. By
air, it is extraordinary! Sedona is an artsy community with many art
galleries. I have wished I could live there but real estate is pricey.
The airport is unique. It is situated on top a Mesa and consumes the
entire flat area. The runway begins and ends abruptly at the edge of the
cliff. The airport is surrounded by mountains which requires some tricky
maneuvering in order to descend and enter the pattern at 6000'. When the
wind is blowing, severe updrafts and downdrafts at the edge of the Mesa
are common. But for now, it is perfect. My flight time was about one
hour ten minutes which allowed me to land in the early morning while the
sun backlit monolithic rock formations and cast shadows across the
valleys. Mother earth provides us with incredible scenery. I brought my
camera to photograph the adventure but the batteries were dead. Bummer.
At the airport, I topped off the fuel and readied for my return
flight. >From Marana to Sedona is 180 air miles. I burned 5.8 gallons.
Pretty good fuel economy. The engine seems to attain better economy from
Premium auto fuel than from AvGas and I only burn AvGas when necessary.
I've always used auto fuel in my planes and never had a problem. The
Jabiru loves it.
All flight systems were good and I rolled down runway 3. I had climbed
to around 500' AGL by the end of the runway and the ground suddenly
plunged downward 1000'. The illusion was weird! It was like the bottom
fell out of my world. It was such an unusual experience, I want to
return and do it again. My return flight traversed the same flight path.
The entire flight was fantastic.
I hope you all enjoy flying. I do.
Have a great day.
Gary Pennington
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Starting |
If I had this problem (I just don't fly below 30 F), I would buy a
radiant propane heater (one with a catalytic converter) with a 1-lb
tank of propane and build something that would allow its heat to flow
up into the cowling.
The heater would reheat the engine in 10 or 20 minutes, and it would
probably be very effective.
The hair dryer I use on cold days works fine, but it needs electricity.
I suspect that if the problem wasn't solved before I left, it
wouldn't have any simple solution at a remote strip.
Hugh Sontag
>Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy
>struggle to get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant
>strip in the morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.
>
>Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity
>available. Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air
>kerosene heater may all work, but you need some sparks.
>
>What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a
>Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery
>enough to spin it and start? It doesn't have to be below zero for a
>Jab to be hard to start.
>
>Doug
>
>
>In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
>
>Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are
>experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and
>right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone
>have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting
>out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if
>anyone has any bright ideas.
>
>Ryan Gross
>Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
>SkyRanger Aircraft
>Arion Lightning
>304-754-6010
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Starting |
I dont use thw choke, I have a electric soliniod for the primer. With the
fuel pump on I hold the solinoid for two seconds then turn the prop by hand
about 4 blades. It then starts very easy. Tex
----- Original Message -----
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
> <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> What if you don't have electric?
> I recall last year a suggestion that heating up the battery with a
> chemical heating pad helped get the thing to liven up a bit. The kind that
> camping shops sell for folk who go hiking in winter.
> What one could heat the engine up with given the flammable aspects......
> I'm very much a believer that the starting system is too lean and Ryan's
> restart problem would be helped by a richer starting system I'm sure.
>
> Another post mentioned spark plug gaps. I once got one away by closing the
> gaps down on one set of plugs. The coil gap is definitely a key issue and
> has been a big factor in improving starting in a number of engines.
>
>
> This is fro m my post on the Jab owners website:
>
> We don't all put jump leads on our cars when it's cold. We should be able
> to go down to the airfield and start our planes on cold days.
>
> I've been doing some work on this at Ludham based on the fact that G-Kevi
> 3300 starts nearly every time.
> Last week at -2C it wouldn't start. I suggested Kevin left it for ten mins
> and gave it another try. It started OK. So it's borderline, bit it is the
> best starting Jab we've ever come across. Only on one other -2C day in 4
> years did it fail to start and on that occasion it started instantly with
> a jump, this was two years ago after a sustained cold spell.
>
> G-CCYA (3300) has been a real bitch over the years but we are getting
> close. The main issue I think was the coil gaps made worse by the battery.
> Coil gaps need to be tight. We also had a charging issue caused by a
> wiring fault so we never had a good battery. These are resolved. Usual
> stuff about choke being fully on etc are no brainers so I won't go into
> any of that.
>
> However, CCYA 3300 wouldn't start last week 0 C with a good battery and
> everything else OK. I know I've systematically checked and resolved
> everything it could be. So I opened up the carb and squirted in two
> syringes of fuel past the slide. Off she goes with the same battery that
> I'd done plenty of cranking on. have to carefully do nothing for a while
> else moving the choke and throttle and it stops but when warmed a bit (2
> mins) she's away.
>
> PH-GCJ is a 3300 engined Esqual, (#1460) it starts every time but stops
> after 2 secs (even at -2). Nothing can be done with it (mess with choke,
> throw throttle open etc) until it's warm enough to run at idle. This takes
> about 10 - 20 starts then if you let it run for about 2 or three minutes
> it can be revved up and choke closed.
>
> If you read the Bing book it tells you about the starting carburettor and
> how there is a slug of fuel available to make the mixture very rich on the
> first crank. I would estimate this at 1/2 a teaspoon full. After this slug
> is used up the starting carburettor relies on fuel flow through a very
> small restrictor, less than of a mm.
>
> Given that two syringes of fuel starts what we would all say it a dead
> Jabiru engine I think there is a serious mixture issue. Not half rich
> enough.
>
> I've had conversations with Roger and Gary (UK agents) about wet
> plugs....have you ever seen any? Why not, that non starting car or
> motorcycle would have had them wouldn't it?
> One starting tip from ST is to put your hand over the carby and choke the
> air completely and crank, then with the resultant fuel that is dragged
> into the induction a troublesome engine will often start.
>
> Does anyone know of a Jab with a primer system? If so how do they get on
> when we aren't wearing shorts?
>
> Has anyone ever increased the size of the starting carburettor restrictor?
>
> Can a few of you syringe fuel into your dead cold Jabiru engines and see
> if I'm right?
>
> The starting carburettor fuel restrictor is set to match an engine, an
> engine that is test run in Australia....
> That engine won't start on a cold day in the UK....
> I'm suggesting a big issue is the mixture.
> CJ
>
> Then I was asked to explain how I got the fuel in and wrote this for those
> not intimate with the Bing:
>
> Hi Howard, what I mean is;
> Get yourself a syringe or an oil can with fuel in it. Or a length of
> plastic pipe.
> Take the scat tube or cobra neck off the back of the carby. Open the
> throttle. Stick your finger in the back of the carby and lift the throttle
> slide up, then using what ever you have shoot the fuel through the carb
> into the induction manifold. I shot 20 mls in a 3300.
>
> Close the throttle, open the choke and give it a start.
>
> I'm not sure about the whys? Warming the engine up obviously helps as it's
> the cold that stops it. Damp, why is it damp?, it was running last night.
> I've never thought damp was an issue with any of the Ludham Jabs.
>
> I think it's just too weak a mixture to fire under a British winter's
> conditions.
> Regards, Clive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Kayberg@aol.com
> Sent: 16 January 2009 22:57
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
>
> Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle to
> get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the
> morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.
>
> Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity
> available. Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene
> heater may all work, but you need some sparks.
>
> What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a
> Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough to
> spin it and start? It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be hard
> to start.
>
> Doug
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
>
>
> Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in
> the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp
> are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start
> your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below
> freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas.
>
> Ryan Gross
> Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
> SkyRanger Aircraft
> Arion Lightning
> 304-754-6010
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sedona flight |
Yes!
Thank you Wayne. Great photos. I noticed on the second one it shows
Humphreys Peak in the background.
Thanks again.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Lenox<mailto:waynelenox@juno.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
Tex
I will help Gary out with a picture or two taken of Sadona February
08. One of my favorite spots for lunch is Sadona airport, with a nice
restaurant on site. If you ever in Arizona it is the place to see and
by air even better.
Wayne L
Lightning N123WL
-- "Tex Mantell"
<wb2ssj@frontiernet.net<mailto:wb2ssj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
I think we should chip in and buy Gary a camera. If he is going to
make us jealous at lest he could show us pictures.
Here I sit looking out at four feet snow. Tex
____________________________________________________________
Click for discounts on jewelry for your
mother.<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/PnY6rw1zIHEBgkotzHPXG
XwZ0l9aOTz0eV5aKHiUVnoPGFs8Yop3N/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Lightning-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sedona flight |
Sorry Tex.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Tex Mantell<mailto:wb2ssj@frontiernet.net>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
I think we should chip in and buy Gary a camera. If he is going to
make us jealous at lest he could show us pictures.
Here I sit looking out at four feet snow. Tex
----- Original Message -----
From: GARY PENNINGTON<mailto:pennington@q.com>
To: lightning-list<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:11 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
Good morning everyone.
My flight yesterday morning was memorable and I would like to share
it with those who are interested. I live in Tucson, Arizona and fly out
of Marana Regional Airport....about a 30 minute drive from my home.
Marana is a small town some 10 miles or so North of Tucson. It has a
very well maintained airport within Class "E" airspace.
When departing, sky conditions were clear and sunny with a temp
about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Wind was Northeast at 6. The air was bumpy
below 4000' but very smooth above that. On course, I performed a gradual
climb to 11000' for clearance above the mountain range 80 miles North of
Marana. Overflying the mountains, I could see Apache Lake and Roosevelt
Lake below. They are nestled in deep canyons formed by the Salt River.
Nary a soul on the water.
Roosevelt Dam was my first waypoint and is a massive structure
several hundred feet tall and spans the canyon a quarter mile or so. It
was built during the early 1900's from massive stone blocks and later
encased in concrete. The adjoining bridge is a cable supported structure
stretching out a half mile or more over the water.
At the dam, I changed course for the town of Payson, a small but
very scenic community situated at the base of the Mogollon Rim. The
"Rim" as we call it, is a mountain range that extends approximately 100
miles in an Easterly/Westerly fashion and tops out around 8000'. Covered
in pine trees and dusted with snow, it is a prominent landmark and a
very pleasant drive by car if you are so inclined.
At Payson, my course changed for Sedona. On this leg, I traversed
two impressive geological formations, the "Fossil Springs Wilderness
Area" and the "West Clear Creek Wilderness Area". They are well known to
hikers as some of the most beautiful natural areas in the country.
Someday, I'll have to hike it, but for now, it feels pretty darn good
the fly overhead in my Lightning.
With Sedona some 10 miles ahead, I could see Flagstaff and Humphreys
Peak to the North. Humphreys Peak reaches skyward 12633' and is
blanketed in snow. It is visible for 100 miles or more.
By now I could clearly see Sedona. It is unmistakable. If you have
never been there, you are missing a very special treat. It is famous for
it's "red dirt" and multi colored mountains and rock formations. Colors
vary from red to orange to yellow and every color in between. The locals
claim Sedona is the center for some sort of earthly energy source....or
something to that effect. None-the-less, by car, it is breathtaking. By
air, it is extraordinary! Sedona is an artsy community with many art
galleries. I have wished I could live there but real estate is pricey.
The airport is unique. It is situated on top a Mesa and consumes the
entire flat area. The runway begins and ends abruptly at the edge of the
cliff. The airport is surrounded by mountains which requires some tricky
maneuvering in order to descend and enter the pattern at 6000'. When the
wind is blowing, severe updrafts and downdrafts at the edge of the Mesa
are common. But for now, it is perfect. My flight time was about one
hour ten minutes which allowed me to land in the early morning while the
sun backlit monolithic rock formations and cast shadows across the
valleys. Mother earth provides us with incredible scenery. I brought my
camera to photograph the adventure but the batteries were dead. Bummer.
At the airport, I topped off the fuel and readied for my return
flight. >From Marana to Sedona is 180 air miles. I burned 5.8 gallons.
Pretty good fuel economy. The engine seems to attain better economy from
Premium auto fuel than from AvGas and I only burn AvGas when necessary.
I've always used auto fuel in my planes and never had a problem. The
Jabiru loves it.
All flight systems were good and I rolled down runway 3. I had
climbed to around 500' AGL by the end of the runway and the ground
suddenly plunged downward 1000'. The illusion was weird! It was like the
bottom fell out of my world. It was such an unusual experience, I want
to return and do it again. My return flight traversed the same flight
path. The entire flight was fantastic.
I hope you all enjoy flying. I do.
Have a great day.
Gary Pennington
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Lightning-List>
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on>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Cold Weather Starting |
That's great news Tex I was hoping someone had fitted a primer system as I am tempted
to fit one to my Esqual. It's just not quite rich enough to stay running
in the cooler periods.
Do you have cold enough temperatures to show an improved starting performance than
folk who just have the 'choke' systems?
What is the lowest ambient that you can start you plane in?
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell
Sent: 17 January 2009 11:19
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
--> <wb2ssj@frontiernet.net>
I dont use thw choke, I have a electric soliniod for the primer. With the fuel
pump on I hold the solinoid for two seconds then turn the prop by hand
about 4 blades. It then starts very easy. Tex
----- Original Message -----
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
> <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> What if you don't have electric?
> I recall last year a suggestion that heating up the battery with a
> chemical heating pad helped get the thing to liven up a bit. The kind that
> camping shops sell for folk who go hiking in winter.
> What one could heat the engine up with given the flammable aspects......
> I'm very much a believer that the starting system is too lean and Ryan's
> restart problem would be helped by a richer starting system I'm sure.
>
> Another post mentioned spark plug gaps. I once got one away by closing the
> gaps down on one set of plugs. The coil gap is definitely a key issue and
> has been a big factor in improving starting in a number of engines.
>
>
> This is fro m my post on the Jab owners website:
>
> We don't all put jump leads on our cars when it's cold. We should be able
> to go down to the airfield and start our planes on cold days.
>
> I've been doing some work on this at Ludham based on the fact that G-Kevi
> 3300 starts nearly every time.
> Last week at -2C it wouldn't start. I suggested Kevin left it for ten mins
> and gave it another try. It started OK. So it's borderline, bit it is the
> best starting Jab we've ever come across. Only on one other -2C day in 4
> years did it fail to start and on that occasion it started instantly with
> a jump, this was two years ago after a sustained cold spell.
>
> G-CCYA (3300) has been a real bitch over the years but we are getting
> close. The main issue I think was the coil gaps made worse by the battery.
> Coil gaps need to be tight. We also had a charging issue caused by a
> wiring fault so we never had a good battery. These are resolved. Usual
> stuff about choke being fully on etc are no brainers so I won't go into
> any of that.
>
> However, CCYA 3300 wouldn't start last week 0 C with a good battery and
> everything else OK. I know I've systematically checked and resolved
> everything it could be. So I opened up the carb and squirted in two
> syringes of fuel past the slide. Off she goes with the same battery that
> I'd done plenty of cranking on. have to carefully do nothing for a while
> else moving the choke and throttle and it stops but when warmed a bit (2
> mins) she's away.
>
> PH-GCJ is a 3300 engined Esqual, (#1460) it starts every time but stops
> after 2 secs (even at -2). Nothing can be done with it (mess with choke,
> throw throttle open etc) until it's warm enough to run at idle. This takes
> about 10 - 20 starts then if you let it run for about 2 or three minutes
> it can be revved up and choke closed.
>
> If you read the Bing book it tells you about the starting carburettor and
> how there is a slug of fuel available to make the mixture very rich on the
> first crank. I would estimate this at 1/2 a teaspoon full. After this slug
> is used up the starting carburettor relies on fuel flow through a very
> small restrictor, less than of a mm.
>
> Given that two syringes of fuel starts what we would all say it a dead
> Jabiru engine I think there is a serious mixture issue. Not half rich
> enough.
>
> I've had conversations with Roger and Gary (UK agents) about wet
> plugs....have you ever seen any? Why not, that non starting car or
> motorcycle would have had them wouldn't it?
> One starting tip from ST is to put your hand over the carby and choke the
> air completely and crank, then with the resultant fuel that is dragged
> into the induction a troublesome engine will often start.
>
> Does anyone know of a Jab with a primer system? If so how do they get on
> when we aren't wearing shorts?
>
> Has anyone ever increased the size of the starting carburettor restrictor?
>
> Can a few of you syringe fuel into your dead cold Jabiru engines and see
> if I'm right?
>
> The starting carburettor fuel restrictor is set to match an engine, an
> engine that is test run in Australia....
> That engine won't start on a cold day in the UK....
> I'm suggesting a big issue is the mixture.
> CJ
>
> Then I was asked to explain how I got the fuel in and wrote this for those
> not intimate with the Bing:
>
> Hi Howard, what I mean is;
> Get yourself a syringe or an oil can with fuel in it. Or a length of
> plastic pipe.
> Take the scat tube or cobra neck off the back of the carby. Open the
> throttle. Stick your finger in the back of the carby and lift the throttle
> slide up, then using what ever you have shoot the fuel through the carb
> into the induction manifold. I shot 20 mls in a 3300.
>
> Close the throttle, open the choke and give it a start.
>
> I'm not sure about the whys? Warming the engine up obviously helps as it's
> the cold that stops it. Damp, why is it damp?, it was running last night.
> I've never thought damp was an issue with any of the Ludham Jabs.
>
> I think it's just too weak a mixture to fire under a British winter's
> conditions.
> Regards, Clive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Kayberg@aol.com
> Sent: 16 January 2009 22:57
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
>
> Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle to
> get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the
> morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.
>
> Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity
> available. Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene
> heater may all work, but you need some sparks.
>
> What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a
> Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough to
> spin it and start? It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be hard
> to start.
>
> Doug
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
>
>
> Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in
> the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp
> are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start
> your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below
> freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas.
>
> Ryan Gross
> Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
> SkyRanger Aircraft
> Arion Lightning
> 304-754-6010
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sedona flight |
Hello Pete
Thanks for the photos. I really like the photo of the airport. Very
cool!
Thanks again.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Krotje<mailto:pete@flylightning.net>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
We just delivered a Jabiru through there last week. Some photos
attached
Pete
From:
owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-lightning-list-ser
ver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Wayne Lenox
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 5:12 PM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
Tex
I will help Gary out with a picture or two taken of Sadona February
08. One of my favorite spots for lunch is Sadona airport, with a nice
restaurant on site. If you ever in Arizona it is the place to see and
by air even better.
Wayne L
Lightning N123WL
-- "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
I think we should chip in and buy Gary a camera. If he is going to
make us jealous at lest he could show us pictures.
Here I sit looking out at four feet snow. Tex
____________________________________________________________
Click for discounts on jewelry for your
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XwZ0l9aOTz0eV5aKHiUVnoPGFs8Yop3N/>
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comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sedona flight |
Roger that! I'll be going that way again soon and I'll be sure to charge
the battery.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com<mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Sedona flight
Gary,
Great description of a great flight. Having flown out of Luke AFB
for many years and having flown my Pitts all over Arizona, it brought
back some good memories of a very beautiful area. Too bad your camera
didn't work. So when you make the flight again, or a similar one, do
take some photos and send them to me, along with your write up, for a
future issue of the newsletter. I think every one would enjoy it.
Blue Skies,
Buz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Starting |
Hello Clive
Thanks for the response. I agree with your theory that the choke system
may not be quite rich enough on cold mornings. The engine will start,
but it takes a while. On the other hand, after it is warmed up for the
first time, it will fire instantly any time thereafter. I love the
engine, but like anything else in life, nothing is perfect.
Happy flying.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: James, Clive R<mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
<clive.james@uk.bp.com<mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>>
Gary, my Esqual engine does the starting and stopping, I have a
theory.
Ryan, also
see:
http://www.voy.com/16193/<http://www.voy.com/16193/>
There is a thread on cold starting which explains my thoughts. The
cold
starting issue is talked about every year on the Yahoo Jabiru engines
group and the Jabiru owners forum, and everyone resorts to block
heating
or hair dryers or jump leads or a combination. I agree that when the
ambient gets to certain levels that is your only option. In the UK
though we rarely get to the extremes that need that and I firmly
believe
that in a normal UK winter and in many other places at our winter
temperatures you should not need to start messing about to start your
Jabiru engine. You should just turn the key. The reason I believe is
the
starting system is too lean for a cold day. Why do I believe this?
Because there are a few Jabiru engines that always start in the UK
throughout the winter.
Your ramp problem I think is, I think another example, though I would
say you are moving to what an average Brit would say is extreme.
My bright idea would be, when parking up, to take an old blanket, cut
it
into three bits, stuff the two smaller bits in the cowl ducts and the
big bit up the hole in the bottom. Then remember to take them out when
you're ready to fly again....:-)
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-lightning-list-ser
ver@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: 16 January 2009 16:17
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
Hello Ryan
Here in Tucson, it is not really cold by your standards, but still the
Jabiru takes a while to start and warm up. I pull the throttle off and
the choke out full. It will start and run for a few seconds and then
stop. After the third attempt, I push in the throttle about 1/4" and
full choke. The engine will start and run with some minor choke
adjustments. A friend of mine installed an oil pan heater on his
truck.
It just sticks onto the outside of the oil pan and you plug it in. I
thought about using one on the Jab but haven't gotten around to it
yet.
Gary PEnnington
----- Original Message -----
From: ryan gross
<mailto:ryan@greenlandings.com<mailto:ryan@greenlandings.com>>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are
experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and
right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have
a
great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on
the
ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any
bright ideas.
Ryan Gross
Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
SkyRanger Aircraft
Arion Lightning
304-754-6010
-----Original Message-----
From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com<mailto:pennington@q.com>>
To:
<lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:56:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
Good morning Wayne
I don't live in the really cold areas of the US, but it
can get chilly here. I'm in Tucson, Arizona. Your current temperatures
are very similar to ours during the Summer months. In Tucson, during
the
Summer, it is commonly 110 degrees at mid day. Needless to say, I fly
very early in the mornings. Oh well, nothing is perfect.
Happy flying.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Patterson <mailto:Wayne@lpwa.net<mailto:Wayne@lpwa.net>>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:13 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
For those souls in the frozen USA north - we
just topped 43C (109F) in Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes
ago (1.00pm). The airport is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is
at
44C (111.5F).
South Australia is due for even higher
temperatures tomorrow - so Dennis at Kingston should be very warm.
Wayne Patterson
LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94742126
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Starting |
Evening Clive (and others),
Excuse my belated response but I only subscribe to the list digest.
Reading with interest your comments about hard starting Jabs in cold
weather a few comments.
The Bing carby fitted to the Jabs has the same operating principle as
the ones fitted to the Rotaxen.
Rotax had this problem many years ago and it was largely solved by
modifying the disc valve in the choke assembly housing. Until a modified
one was released the 3rd hole from the pointy end of the slot was
drilled out to a larger daim. of 1mm(if my ageing memory serve me
right). 1mm is an irrelevant size to the Jabs but the principle is the
same. See page 8 of :
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/si912012914014r1.pdf
for a diagram. Cost nothing to try but make sure you can get a new one
before you bugger up the old one.
In the Rotax manual it specifically warns if you use any throttle or
have the idle speed set too high the choke circuit is de-activated. Very
easy to demonstrate.
If the Jab will fire with a squirt of fuel without jumper leads then it
is a choke problem or idle speed set too high , not a jetting problem
else it would not run properly anyway.
If jumper leads get a start then it is an electrical problem. See Bob
Knuckolls publication available from him at his aeroelectric.com website
to get an understanding of the critical need to minimize resistance in
the starter circuit. He loves welding leads in the starter circuit.
Unsure if the Jab has the following feature or not, but the Rotax
ignition system will not allow sparks if the starter motor cannot attain
300rpm approx cranking speed. Then jumper leads get dusted off I guess.
Clive all this bragging about weather, I often think of the gales and
foul weather you have to put up with and realize how good we have it.
Hope you finally have a win with those PFA blokes.
Regards, Malcolm
Message 11
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| Subject: | Cold Weather Starting |
I have started in 20F with the Jabiru. I was having issues starting and Pe
te K. told me to not push the throttle in at all. When the choke is on=2C
the throttle should be at idle. I tried this and it fired right up. They
had some sort of engine heater that we used some days as well. Brian W.
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 12
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I was just amused when reading on www.bydanjohnson.com that he had flown a
"retractable gear kit version of the Arion Lightning." I've met Dan and I'
m sure this was more of a case of crossing memories as he has flown a lot o
f different aircraft. Never-the-less=2C lookslike the Lightning LS-1 is ge
tting some attention on other sites as well. Brian W.
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning RG |
I wonder if he flew a RG version of the WT-9 and mistaked it for the Lightning?
On 1/17/09, Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was just amused when reading on www.bydanjohnson.com that he had flown a
> "retractable gear kit version of the Arion Lightning." I've met Dan and I'm
> sure this was more of a case of crossing memories as he has flown a lot of
> different aircraft. Never-the-less, lookslike the Lightning LS-1 is getting
> some attention on other sites as well. Brian W.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning RG |
Ops, I hope that "April Fools" jest message I sent out last 1 April did not
lead to him thinking that there really was an RG Lightning. I will send him
a message reference the above.
Buz
**************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's
Message 15
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Yeah=2C I know that he knows Pete and Ben and has somewhat followed the de
velopment of the Lightning. It must be the good looks of the plane that dr
aw people in. An RG would make a pretty plane but I maintain that the weig
ht=2C complexity=2C extra cost would not justify the gains in terms of crui
se speed. Brian W.
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning RG |
In a message dated 1/17/2009 5:47:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dashvii@hotmail.com writes:
I maintain that the weight, complexity, extra cost would not justify the
gains in terms of cruise speed.
Brian,
I totally agree.
Buz
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