Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:48 AM - Re: Lightning competition (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (flylightning)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (James, Clive R)
4. 08:23 AM - Re: Cold Weather Starting (Jim Langley)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: Training (Hollis Babb)
6. 09:05 AM - Re: Training (Hollis Babb)
7. 05:28 PM - Re: Icy Cold? (Wayne Patterson)
8. 10:51 PM - Re: Icy Cold? (James, Clive R)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Lightning competition |
Is is April 1st already?
Usually about the time of Sun n Fun the latest radical designs show up.
This one is a bit amusing. Despite being a taildragger, it has no
elevator...a la Dyke Delta? But wait, the Dyke is a tri gear. Should be hell
to
flair. Also would be a long hard runway bird.
550 lbs empty. Even Burt Rutan had trouble trying to get the VariEZY to
that weight. Not to mention that it is a wet lay-up bird.
And on 20 less horsepower it is going to fly faster than a Lightning.
And of course it is not built yet.
Thanks for the post, I appreciated a little amusement.
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 1/18/2009 4:49:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mcpc@wp.pl
writes:
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "rimorbod" <mcpc@wp.pl>
There will be an interesting design with incredible performance:
http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/E2B.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225521#225521
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Subject: | Cold Weather Starting |
If you have a good warm idle set of around 800 to work form than you
know
your throttle plate will be in the correct position at idle. Your idle
mixture should be about 1 =BC turns out in the cold and a coil cap of
0.010=85it
is possible that it is a bigger gap and will start when warm but not
really
cold. Also if you have read the service bulletin from jabiru to move the
engine ground strap to the long AN3 starter bolt than this should be
accomplished too, adds a good deal of revs to the starter. With the
throttle closed and the choke completely on pull 6-10 blades thru and
than
get back in she should start. This used to work all the time in WI it
pretty
cold there.
nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle
to
get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the
morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.
Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity
available. Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene
heater may all work, but you need some sparks.
What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a
Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough
to
spin it and start? It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be
hard to
start.
Doug
In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing
in
the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside
temp
are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to
start
your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below
freezing.
Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas.
Ryan Gross
Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
SkyRanger Aircraft
Arion Lightning
304-754-6010
Message 3
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Subject: | Cold Weather Starting |
Further to Nick's tips. I think the starting mixture is one of the issues as I
may have mentioned before. Not rich enough in some cases.
I've been looking at the carb and how the starting carburettor works. The hand
pulling of the prop will, I think, pull fuel through such that you can build up
an amount in the induction to have a rich starting point when you go for a crank.
Will take some trial and error for your plane and the conditions maybe.
Don't go hell for leather. Just pull a few blades, wait then pull a few more ,
wait etc.
The staring carburettor design allows a slug of fuel to build up after the flow
restriction, you'll need the electric pump on to maintain the level in the bowl.
The slug will be sucked out into the induction as you pull the blades. As
you pause the slug in the partitioned part of the carb bowl will refill and can
be sucked by the next couple of blades.
The guys at my home field have now got up to 10 revolutions on a troublesome starter
to get the thing rich enough to kick off. The extra hand propping seems
to make the difference.
I'd be interested in hearing if this works for anyone else, that is if the amount
of hand propping that you usually do wasn't any good.
Regards Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning
Sent: 19 January 2009 14:10
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
If you have a good warm idle set of around 800 to work form than you know your
throttle plate will be in the correct position at idle. Your idle mixture should
be about 1 turns out in the cold and a coil cap of 0.010...it is possible
that it is a bigger gap and will start when warm but not really cold. Also if
you have read the service bulletin from jabiru to move the engine ground strap
to the long AN3 starter bolt than this should be accomplished too, adds a good
deal of revs to the starter. With the throttle closed and the choke completely
on pull 6-10 blades thru and than get back in she should start. This used
to work all the time in WI it pretty cold there.
nick
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle to get
a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the morning, then
refused to start in the afternoon.
Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity available.
Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene heater may all work,
but you need some sparks.
What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a Lightning that
will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough to spin it and start?
It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be hard to start.
Doug
In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ryan@greenlandings.com
writes:
Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the
US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08
F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine
when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking
to see if anyone has any bright ideas.
Ryan Gross
Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
SkyRanger Aircraft
Arion Lightning
304-754-6010
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Starting |
Not coming from someone with a lot of Jabiru experience, but this sounds a
lot like how I would start my large RC engines, (100-200cc), Choke and fli
p
five times. Choke and ignition on till the engine pops, then choke off and
flip and viola! Engine running. In cold weather, we would leave the choke
partially on till the engine started to show signs of running a little rich
and then take it off.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:54 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>wro
te:
> clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> Further to Nick's tips. I think the starting mixture is one of the issues
> as I may have mentioned before. Not rich enough in some cases.
>
> I've been looking at the carb and how the starting carburettor works. The
> hand pulling of the prop will, I think, pull fuel through such that you c
an
> build up an amount in the induction to have a rich starting point when yo
u
> go for a crank. Will take some trial and error for your plane and the
> conditions maybe.
> Don't go hell for leather. Just pull a few blades, wait then pull a few
> more , wait etc.
> The staring carburettor design allows a slug of fuel to build up after th
e
> flow restriction, you'll need the electric pump on to maintain the level
in
> the bowl. The slug will be sucked out into the induction as you pull the
> blades. As you pause the slug in the partitioned part of the carb bowl wi
ll
> refill and can be sucked by the next couple of blades.
>
> The guys at my home field have now got up to 10 revolutions on a
> troublesome starter to get the thing rich enough to kick off. The extra h
and
> propping seems to make the difference.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing if this works for anyone else, that is if th
e
> amount of hand propping that you usually do wasn't any good.
>
> Regards Clive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning
> Sent: 19 January 2009 14:10
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
>
> If you have a good warm idle set of around 800 to work form than you know
> your throttle plate will be in the correct position at idle. Your idle
> mixture should be about 1 =BC turns out in the cold and a coil cap of
> 0.010...it is possible that it is a bigger gap and will start when warm b
ut
> not really cold. Also if you have read the service bulletin from jabiru t
o
> move the engine ground strap to the long AN3 starter bolt than this shoul
d
> be accomplished too, adds a good deal of revs to the starter. With the
> throttle closed and the choke completely on pull 6-10 blades thru and tha
n
> get back in she should start. This used to work all the time in WI it pre
tty
> cold there.
>
>
> nick
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:57 PM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Cold Weather Starting
>
>
> Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle t
o
> get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the
> morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.
>
>
> Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity
> available. Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene
> heater may all work, but you need some sparks.
>
>
> What if you dont have electric? What can you carry with you in a
> Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough to
> spin it and start? It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be hard
to
> start.
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
>
> Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are
> experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right
> now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great
> idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp al
l
> day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas.
>
>
> Ryan Gross
> Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
> SkyRanger Aircraft
> Arion Lightning
> 304-754-6010
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 5
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Gary,
Thanks to you and others that have responded to my question. I currently
own an Interplane Skyboy. It is a bit easier to land, I'm sure, than the
Lightning. It drops out of the air when you cut the throttle and it has
trailing link suspension.
Thanks again,
Hollis
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Training
Good evening Hollis
I'll be happy to share my opinion with you. Of course, my opinion is based
on my flight experiences in Light Sport airplanes, Cessna 172's, Piper
Warriors and now, my Lightning. Other pilots will certainly have different
opinions. I would first emphasize that no airplane is perfect for all
applications. Heck, nothing in life is perfect...everything is a compromise.
You didn't say what aircraft you have trained in, so, I'll assume it's a
Cessna 172 or another typical "drag machine".
That said, I would classify the Lightning as a performance airplane. It
gains airspeed quickly and has little drag. The cruise speed is faster than
the Cessna or Warrior. Because of that, you'll reach your destination much
faster which means you'll have to plan farther ahead.
The Lightning is a "slippery" airplane. It does not bleed off speed rapidly.
As a result, when entering the pattern and preparing for landing, you must
begin reducing airspeed much sooner than with your trainer. Take offs and
landings are also quite different than a Cessna.
I would not consider the Lightning a "Short Field Airplane". Although, with
proper approach techniques, the landing rollout is respectable. Some
Lightning owners even land their planes on grass or dirt.
I installed the winglets on my Lightning. Mostly because I liked the way
they look. But, I believe they benefit you during slow speeds and especially
during stalls. The Lightning is a fast, good looking, cruiser. The seating
is comfortable for two adults with adequate shoulder room.....as long as
they are not big people.
I would not say the Lightning is a "Trainer" airplane, but with proper
training, you can easily fly it. I believe it is absolutely critical that
you have thorough training in the Lightning before you solo.
I now have about 65 hours on my Lightning and I am beginning to take longer
trips. Short hops are also good.
I hope this helps in your decision.
Happy flying .
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Hollis Babb <mailto:sailor@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Training
How does everyone feel about the Lightning (LSA Version--with winglets)
using it as my trainer? I am a student pilot and want to make sure I don't
buy something that is beyond my abilities, or will take me a long time to
master. How does it handle at slow speed, landing and etc.? I think I just
want to do local flying with an occasional cross country. I'm at a local
non towered AP with a 3300 ft paved runway. I like the 3 week build assist
program and also looking at =======================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List> http://www.matnbsp;
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
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Thanks Buz,
Lots to think about. Appreciate the info. I'm going to be in Sebring this
week to look around.
Hollis
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Training
In a message dated 1/18/2009 5:55:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
sailor@mindspring.com writes:
How does everyone feel about the Lightning (LSA Version--with winglets)
using it as my trainer?
Hello Hollis,
Since you are already a student pilot, we can assume you can "multi
task" (such as walking and chewing gum at the same time - just kidding here,
well mostly just kidding), so you obviously have the basic skills and
motivation to finish your pilot training. So based on that, to my way of
thinking, your chances of success really will depend on your instructor, not
you. The Lightning is an easy airplane to fly, but like all things that
take training to develop the proper specific skills, you need to be taught
by someone that has the background, experience, patience, and the right
attitude to be a good instructor. Some instructors are great, some are just
OK, but way too many are pretty weak. Weak in skills, weak in experience,
weak in motivation, and weak in instructional techniques. In many cases, it
really isn't their fault - as they were likely taught be others that just
wanted to build flying time to move on to a better paying piloting job. So
finding the right instructor is job # 1. After that, have that person get a
proper checkout in the Lightning by someone that is experienced in the
Lightning. Then, and only then, they can start your training.
To be more specific about the Lightning, yes, it is very easy to land.
However, the light weight of the airplane combined with the relatively high
aspect ratio and high lift wing, make airspeed control very important. If
you are trying to land too fast, it will float some time before it slows
enough for a full stall landing. If you try to force it on the runway while
still fast, it will tend to rebound or skip back into the air. So just fly
the proper speed on final, flare just inches above the runway and hold it
off until it stalls on. There will be no bounce or rebound if you are not
too fast. That 3300' runway you fly off of is plenty long for a Lightning.
With good approaches, an experienced Lightning pilot can easily operate out
of a much shorter strip. Also, slow flight is a piece of cake. The
ailerons are still very effective at slow speeds, but the proper use of
rudder for coordinated turns becomes more important the slower you fly. So
use rudders and ailerons together while slow flying (keep the ball
centered). Well, you should be doing this all the time, but actually the
Lightning basic design will allow you to be somewhat lazy about proper
rudder coordination at cruise speeds.
So, yes, with the right instructor, you can learn to fly in a Lightning.
Some time ago, I gave demo rides in the demo Lightning to two buddies that
were thinking about building a Lightning together. One was a pilot and the
other a student pilot. The student pilot also brought his instructor (a
lady instructor) so she could also get a demo ride and evaluate it for
completing his training. All three liked the airplane and the lady
instructor was sure she could finish the students training in the Lightning.
The student himself, after getting some stick time during his demo ride,
exclaimed excitedly, "I can fly this thing". So I would suggest the same to
you. Bring your instructor to SYI, or where ever you are thinking about
doing the build, and have the instructor get a demo flight as well as you.
That way everyone involved can make an informed decision. You and the
instructor (on the Lightning), and the demo pilot (as to whether your
instructor has their "stuff" together).
One other comment, just so you understand the requirements of a newly
built experimental amateur built aircraft. The first 40 hours are
restricted to a specific area and the aircraft must be flown solo by the
pilot or pilots that are doing the test flying. So your dual instruction
could not start in the Lightning until after this 40 hour test period is
completed.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
A Good Credit Score is
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Message 7
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Hello Gary
We have to be careful here as well - but we usually go the other way and
fly later in the day on very hot days. Perth is on the west coast and
on very hot days we have strong early morning easterly winds blowing
from the Australian land mass over Perth and out to sea. Unfortunately
we have an 800ft scarp just to the east of Perth, so those very strong
easterly morning winds form standing waves as they drop from the scarp -
the waves flow over Perth airport and our club airfield. This makes
turbulence and substantial windshear inevitable.
On very hot days, our alternative is to wait for the strong westerly sea
breeze to blow in over the coastal plain around Perth - it is called the
Fremantle Doctor and comes in at around 4-5.00pm. Whilst this wind is
strong, it is normally very smooth and consistent and tends to flatten
the thermals. So we tend to get delightful sunset flights - but we
also then get standing waves on the inland side of the scarp!
Wayne Patterson
LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94742126
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
Good morning Wayne
I don't live in the really cold areas of the US, but it can get chilly
here. I'm in Tucson, Arizona. Your current temperatures are very similar
to ours during the Summer months. In Tucson, during the Summer, it is
commonly 110 degrees at mid day. Needless to say, I fly very early in
the mornings. Oh well, nothing is perfect.
Happy flying.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Patterson <mailto:Wayne@lpwa.net>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:13 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
For those souls in the frozen USA north - we just topped 43C
(109F) in Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes ago (1.00pm). The
airport is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is at 44C (111.5F).
South Australia is due for even higher temperatures tomorrow -
so Dennis at Kingston should be very warm.
Wayne Patterson
LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94742126
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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We have a hill in Norfolk that is 280 feet tall......highest point for
miles around.
The other day it was minus 11C in one place in England, the News
agencies were besides themselves.
So were Jab owners as no one could get them started.
Keep the stories, info and pictures coming guys, great to read and to
see!
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Patterson
Sent: 20 January 2009 01:26
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
Hello Gary
We have to be careful here as well - but we usually go the other way and
fly later in the day on very hot days. Perth is on the west coast and
on very hot days we have strong early morning easterly winds blowing
from the Australian land mass over Perth and out to sea. Unfortunately
we have an 800ft scarp just to the east of Perth, so those very strong
easterly morning winds form standing waves as they drop from the scarp -
the waves flow over Perth airport and our club airfield. This makes
turbulence and substantial windshear inevitable.
On very hot days, our alternative is to wait for the strong westerly sea
breeze to blow in over the coastal plain around Perth - it is called the
Fremantle Doctor and comes in at around 4-5.00pm. Whilst this wind is
strong, it is normally very smooth and consistent and tends to flatten
the thermals. So we tend to get delightful sunset flights - but we
also then get standing waves on the inland side of the scarp!
Wayne Patterson
LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94742126
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
Good morning Wayne
I don't live in the really cold areas of the US, but it can get chilly
here. I'm in Tucson, Arizona. Your current temperatures are very similar
to ours during the Summer months. In Tucson, during the Summer, it is
commonly 110 degrees at mid day. Needless to say, I fly very early in
the mornings. Oh well, nothing is perfect.
Happy flying.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Patterson <mailto:Wayne@lpwa.net>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:13 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Icy Cold?
For those souls in the frozen USA north - we just topped 43C
(109F) in Perth city, Western Australia a few minutes ago (1.00pm). The
airport is at 43.7C (111F)and the airforce base is at 44C (111.5F).
South Australia is due for even higher temperatures tomorrow -
so Dennis at Kingston should be very warm.
Wayne Patterson
LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94742126
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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