Lightning-List Digest Archive

Thu 02/05/09


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:14 AM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
     2. 05:11 AM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (GARY PENNINGTON)
     3. 05:17 AM - Re: IFR Lightning (GARY PENNINGTON)
     4. 06:36 AM - Re: Cockpit checklist (James, Clive R)
     5. 06:54 AM - Re: Cockpit checklist (flylightning)
     6. 07:07 AM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
     7. 07:51 AM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (flylightning)
     8. 10:51 AM - Re: Cockpit checklist (sttwig@wabroadband.com)
     9. 11:43 AM - AVN00 (EAFerguson@aol.com)
    10. 11:50 AM - avn100 (EAFerguson@aol.com)
    11. 02:13 PM - Re: Cockpit checklist (n5pb@aol.com)
    12. 02:37 PM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (GARY PENNINGTON)
    13. 04:23 PM - Flight to Lake Havasu (GARY PENNINGTON)
    14. 04:41 PM - Re: Flight to Lake Havasu (Tex Mantell)
    15. 04:48 PM - Re: Flight to Lake Havasu (Wayne Lenox)
    16. 07:33 PM - Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 (Jim Langley)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:14:35 AM PST US
    From: Kayberg@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    In a message dated 2/4/2009 9:51:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, AVN100@aol.com writes: And as for the insults and derision from Doug K., uhh... don't you fall under the "clearly conflicted interest, personal monetary benefit" banner that drives so many of those ignoring the substance of my concerns thusfar to launch ad hominem attacks? Thought I saw you financially connected to Green Landings which I thought is financially connected to Arion... but retraction and apologies if mistaken. If not and you ARE tied in financially somehow, time for YOUR apology and admission that while market forces and the missed 51% opportunity have brought Pete and Nick late and grateful to the LSA game, they did not originally "live and breathe it" as you claim, unlike some newer 100% SP manufacturers... and remain capable of errors or oversights. Aviation safety and consumer protection depend on asking questions rather than accepting the status quo and/or ad copy. Unethical bribe time. Admit all that and I will cheerfully provide a list of twenty spelling and grammar errors from the comparison table - as part of my constant and consistent product improvement effort. About that chart, if you ARE with Green Landings, doesn't your own comparison table's "free rain" [sic] analysis sort of support my prior (and universally derided) assertion that ELSA allows more equipment and mod flexibility than SLSA? And whassupp with both being the same price? And why advertise (and according to my old pal Dan Johnson take deposits on) SLSA if you only intend to build one for homologation, then go straight to exclusive ELSA production for an extended period? Oh christ, more questions. And clouds in the sky. Who needs this, right? Potential SP buyers who want as much credible, objective information as they can get, that's who. And not just marketing puffery. Obviously not current EAB owners who are free to ignore this topic entirely yet who instead chime in attempting to deny the information to others. So can ANY of you answer ANY of these questions instead of trying to kill the messenger? a) Did Arion miss the 51% EAB opportunity that was out there year after year until last fall (and won't they have another bite at the apple yet) ? b) If the 120knot Lightning ELSA is going to be 90% or more (how much more?) factory or dealer or subcontractor built when the owner gets it and begins the final ten percent or less, why would its ELSA build manual have to be as complex as one for the EAB 170mph Lightning? c) Once your ELSA is complete and registered, are or aren't you much more free to maintain and modify it than you would be with an SLSA? d) Is Arion going to start delivering LSA in May, 2009, per their claim at Sebring to Dan Johnson? e) If they are, will those be ELSA and/or SLSA and what production rate per month of each? I thank any helpful, honest, and brave souls for any answers to the above and additional hard info on Arion LSA models provided myself (perhaps back channel would be best for your safety and reputation) or in public to interested but silent readers. As for the gaggle of indefatigable character assassins, based on an excellent suggestion from Koenigsberg, I fart in your gen-e-ral dee-rection. Given my penchant for amateur psychology, I predict that you will not be satisfied with my answers, but I will respond anyway. First, I have a very limited financial interest in Lightning sales. I do have a large personal commitment to the success of Ryan Gross, Green Landings, Pete, Nick et al. They are great people and make my people commitments a greater priority than financial. You may equate it more with being the fan of a good sports team. Second, I didn't do the chart, wherever that is. Ryan is the Main Man at Green Landings, not me. a. They did "miss" the 51% "opportunity". But more importantly, it is of very little consequence. As I have posted before, it is just saves a little paperwork. b.As Nick tried to tell you , the ELSA kit must perfectly follow the SLSA. But more importantly, a good build manual is extremely helpful....assuming literacy on the part of the purchaser. c.What the owner does with ANY AIRPLANE is up to him. But it is true than some will downgrade the S-LSA to E-LSA status to make it easier to change and maintain. d. Arion has been delivering Light Sport kits since day one. Some have chosen to build them, some have not. e. Production rate will carefully follow the sales rate. If memory serves, 4 a month is easy, more than that is possible with a financial commitment to more molds. Since it is the same kit, for all models, it is just a paper shuffel. I trust this will completely satisfy. Doug Koenigsberg


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:11:55 AM PST US
    From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com>
    Subject: Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    Buz You have the ability to calmly turn a bad situation into a good one and provide pertinent information in the process. I hope one of these days, I have the honor to meet you. Just think how much I could learn. Thanks for being there. Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com<mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com> To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 AVN100, I will provide what I think are the answers to your questions, although you never took the time to answer mine the last time you were on this list. The reason I am going to take the time to answer them is because others on the list may be interested in the answers, and one of the main purposes of the list is information sharing. For those that may be somewhat new to the list, please realize that I do not now, nor have I ever worked for Arion Aircraft. I am just a happy customer that they trust to fly all their aircraft (because of my past flying, building and testing experiences). So here goes: a) Did Arion miss the 51% EAB opportunity that was out there year after year until last fall (and won't they have another bite at the apple yet) ? Arion has requested that the EAB Lightning kit be looked at, but as most of you know those FAA inspections are on hold until the new 51% rule is out. So it eventually will be inspected. Your comment about Arion missing the opportunity year after year is misleading for several reasons. First, remember the prototype Lightning did not even fly until March of 2006. Nick was giving it glowing reports to Pete, but Pete was reluctant to spend more of the investor's money in a demonstrator and to develop a complete EAB kit until he at least got a second opinion on the prototype's flying characteristics. That is when I got lucky and Pete asked me to fly the prototype. That flight report from my flight in July 2006 is still available on the Lightning web site. Also remember that the first Lightning demo didn't fly until April of 2007, less than 2 years ago and not too much before the moratorium was put in place. A tremendous amount of work has been done by Arion since the first demo flew and with very few people actually on the Arion team to do that work. Completing the paperwork to get the EAB kit inspected for the 51% list probably took back seat to getting the actual kits into production and doing all the other things that a start up company with only two or three workers has to do. Remember, a kit does not have to be on the 51% approved list to be built as an EAB. It just makes the builder have a good builder's log to show the DAR to prove that he did at least 51% of the work. Heck, he needs a good builder's log when he applies for the repairman's certificate. Also remember that the Tennessee guys had previously sold the VM-1 Esqual kit and they had it inspected for the 51% list and it was approved. Believe me, the Esqual kit is easier to build than the current Lightning kit, so I see no problem with the Lightning EAB kit being put on the approved list when the FAA gets back to doing those inspections. b) If the 120knot Lightning ELSA is going to be 90% or more (how much more?) factory or dealer or subcontractor built when the owner gets it and begins the final ten percent or less, why would its ELSA build manual have to be as complex as one for the EAB 170mph Lightning? Who said the ELSA Lightning kits will be 90% complete? I am betting that Arion, being a proactive company, will work with each builder and let them determine how much work they want the factory to do before they take delivery or arrive for the builder's assist program. Why do it any other way? Let the customer "have it their way". So you may see ELSA Lightning kits with anywhere from 50% to 90% complete. After some point they may find that it is better to do them all to the same completion for making things more standard. We will have to wait and see what transpires. Remember, flexibility is the key to airpower. The complex build manual will be complex because of the SLSA Lightning and the fact that it's build manual (and POH) must meet ASTM standards. The ELSA Lightning will use the same build manual - no need to write a separate one, and the ELSA builder may possible benefit in the future having a much more complete build manual (in case the airplane needs some repair). And remember there can be no ELSA until there is at least one ASTM approved "turn key" SLSA. And please don't confuse the old heavy ultra light ELSA that the FAA came out with to get all those illegal "fat" ultra lights on the registered list. The ELSA we are talking about can only be if the company first builds a certified SLSA. Hence all the work to get everything ASTM approved. c) Once your ELSA is complete and registered, are or aren't you much more free to maintain and modify it than you would be with an SLSA? I must admit I have not thoroughly read up on what you will be allowed to do after an ELSA is flying. I do know that for the initial registration as an ELSA it must be exactly like the SLSA. But also remember that the SLSA can have options as to various avionics, etc. that are on the approved list, so the ELSA can have those same options. Things like wheel pants, landing lights, etc. can also be on this approved options list. I would guess that if a builder later wanted to install a radio that was not on the initial approved list, it would be like installing a radio in your "store bought" airplane. Have it installed and signed off by the appropriate person. d) Is Arion going to start delivering LSA in May, 2009, per their claim at Sebring to Dan Johnson? What do you mean by LSA? SLSA or SLSA? And remember, they are already selling EAB kits that can be built to meet the requirements to be flown by a Sport Pilot. Assuming all goes well with the ASTM certification for the SLSA Lightning LS-1 that will probably take place in late March, there will probably be ELSA Lightning LS-1 kits available by the Sebring time frame. Remember once again, this is a small company that depends on many different suppliers. Lets hope the current economic situation throughout the country does not effect any of Arion's suppliers. e) If they are, will those be ELSA and/or SLSA and what production rate per month of each? The initial emphasis will be on the ELSA kits, not the SLSA. Why? So far most of the interest has been in kits, not turn key airplanes. Also, assuming the EAB Lightning kit does not meet the new 51% rule because of the 20% fabrication (who really knows what that will mean) then at least Arion can continue to sell ELSA kits until the EAB kit is re-packaged. As to production rate per month - Who knows? Again, this is a small company. They will do their best to meet demand, but to set some production rate at this point is not desirable. Let supply be driven by the suppliers and demand be driven by the customer. I see no other good way to do this in a small company. They certainly don' want to flood the market, even if they could. So, AVN100, how about answering my previous question. I am curious, do you now or have you ever worked for the FAA in the National Flight Procedures Office? If you don't and have not, then how did you pick your email name? Inquiring minds want to know. Blue Skies, Buz PS: If you are trying to be abrasive, you are doing a good job. Maybe part of the "We're not happy until you are not happy" way of thinking. If you are not trying to be abrasive, I suggest you re-read what you have written before you hit the send button. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more<http://aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022>. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Lightning-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:17:37 AM PST US
    From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com>
    Subject: Re: IFR Lightning
    Awesome! Thank you Linda. Happy flying. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS<mailto:lbmathias@verizon.net> To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: IFR Lightning Yes, Gary. If you comply with FAR 91.205, you can fly the Lightning IFR. Mine is equipped for IFR. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY PENNINGTON<mailto:pennington@q.com> To: lightning-list<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: IFR Lightning Hello everyone Does anyone know if the Lightning can be legally flown IFR? Thanks to all and happy flying. Gary Pennington href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Release Date: 01/28/09 19:24:00 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Lightning-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:36:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Cockpit checklist
    From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
    A good list, I'm going to review mine (rather simpler) one with yours Bear (and Buz's), thanks for the prompt. After my recent experience (ouch) and the criticality of the braking for steering I'd add a brake check on the pre-approach checks. I landed with a friend in a Jabiru 430 and the brakes failed with a cracked pipe that only gave us a small retardation before nothing on the lever. I'm convinced we'd have found out there was a leak if we'd checked them downwind. The leak was caused by an ill fitted mod to the brake system when Jabiru added a second slave. The tee in the line was fitted at the wheel and the vibration of the tee was too much for piping. I'm sure Jabiru America have figured that one already and all Tees are now inboard of the U/C leg. As for the landing I used the going sideways slows you down more technique and we stopped before the end, with hindsight we could have gone around and then dragged the plane in early and slow. I digress, when I went off the runway last month there was nothing wrong with my brakes, I had fixed a leak on the right before the flight and then whilst struggling with the directional control assumed I had a problem on the right, NOT having checked the pedal kickback on approach. The other thing I'm not good at having done loads of landings in the same plane over 8 years is using a checklist, usually just go 'round the cockpit', something I'm trying to improve on as well! I'm in the bad habit experience level period I think. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n5pb@aol.com Sent: 28 January 2009 01:52 Subject: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist Folks, I put a cockpit checklist together that I intend to use in my lightning. Most of the information came from the POH. If you want to modify it for your particular plane feel free. Any comments about it are also welcomed. Thanks Bear Bryant -----Original Message----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:23 am Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Newsletter for February 2009 All, The February 2009 Lightning Newsletter (Issue 2-2) is now posted at the Lightning web site and at Jim Langley's web site. http://www.flylightning.net/Newsletters.htm http://www.jimslightning.com/html/newsletters.html Yes, it is early, but I was pushing to get it done so that Linda Mathias and I could then concentrate on the LS-1 POH after the Sebring event (when Nick is again available for questions). I had actually planned on going to Sebring, as Carl and Pat Beatrice had offered a place to stay, but a mandatory meeting came up that prevented me from flying down. I am somewhat involved in a PBS television project called "Low and Slow over Virginia" which will be a J3 Cub flying around VA with commentary on neat places to visit and area history (with an emphasis on aviation history in VA). It will be kind of a travel log for tourism and history lessons for schools. It will be shown on PBS TV and in schools around Virginia. Besides the J3 stuff, the Virginia Aviation Historical Society, that I am on the board of, is working on funding help at the moment. Donations accepted. :-) Busy time. As always, any and all feedback is requested. Please. Blue Skies, Buz


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:54:09 AM PST US
    From: "flylightning" <info@flylightning.net>
    Subject: Cockpit checklist
    Heh a new and applicable subject. Pauls check list is a good one and fits nicely in the map pocket. nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Clive R Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist <clive.james@uk.bp.com> A good list, I'm going to review mine (rather simpler) one with yours Bear (and Buz's), thanks for the prompt. After my recent experience (ouch) and the criticality of the braking for steering I'd add a brake check on the pre-approach checks. I landed with a friend in a Jabiru 430 and the brakes failed with a cracked pipe that only gave us a small retardation before nothing on the lever. I'm convinced we'd have found out there was a leak if we'd checked them downwind. The leak was caused by an ill fitted mod to the brake system when Jabiru added a second slave. The tee in the line was fitted at the wheel and the vibration of the tee was too much for piping. I'm sure Jabiru America have figured that one already and all Tees are now inboard of the U/C leg. As for the landing I used the going sideways slows you down more technique and we stopped before the end, with hindsight we could have gone around and then dragged the plane in early and slow. I digress, when I went off the runway last month there was nothing wrong with my brakes, I had fixed a leak on the right before the flight and then whilst struggling with the directional control assumed I had a problem on the right, NOT having checked the pedal kickback on approach. The other thing I'm not good at having done loads of landings in the same plane over 8 years is using a checklist, usually just go 'round the cockpit', something I'm trying to improve on as well! I'm in the bad habit experience level period I think. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n5pb@aol.com Sent: 28 January 2009 01:52 Subject: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist Folks, I put a cockpit checklist together that I intend to use in my lightning. Most of the information came from the POH. If you want to modify it for your particular plane feel free. Any comments about it are also welcomed. Thanks Bear Bryant -----Original Message----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:23 am Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Newsletter for February 2009 All, The February 2009 Lightning Newsletter (Issue 2-2) is now posted at the Lightning web site and at Jim Langley's web site. http://www.flylightning.net/Newsletters.htm http://www.jimslightning.com/html/newsletters.html Yes, it is early, but I was pushing to get it done so that Linda Mathias and I could then concentrate on the LS-1 POH after the Sebring event (when Nick is again available for questions). I had actually planned on going to Sebring, as Carl and Pat Beatrice had offered a place to stay, but a mandatory meeting came up that prevented me from flying down. I am somewhat involved in a PBS television project called "Low and Slow over Virginia" which will be a J3 Cub flying around VA with commentary on neat places to visit and area history (with an emphasis on aviation history in VA). It will be kind of a travel log for tourism and history lessons for schools. It will be shown on PBS TV and in schools around Virginia. Besides the J3 stuff, the Virginia Aviation Historical Society, that I am on the board of, is working on funding help at the moment. Donations accepted. :-) Busy time. As always, any and all feedback is requested. Please. Blue Skies, Buz


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:07:01 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    Thanks for the kind words, Gary. I hope to meet you also. I am once again planning to be at both Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh. How about you? Normally the Lightning guys plan a "Meet and Greet" session for all interested in the Lightning at both SNF and Oshkosh. I am sure they will again this year. It is a good time to meet others on the list and share information about the Lightning. Lets hope that many Lightnings show up at SNF this year. I know World Record Earl will be there, lets just hope he is not wearing his world record "flight suit". Blue Skies, Buz **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:51:01 AM PST US
    From: "flylightning" <info@flylightning.net>
    Subject: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    You could simply have asked the questions with out a dissertation in the middle and bashes to our competion (very tacky if you ask me). If you have noticed any one else on the list they simple post there questions in a few sentences and wait for the answers, take note. They do not make statements waiting for a rebuttal. So to your questions not that we know what they are, 1. No we are not on the 51% list, we never claimed the Lightning was, never advertised that the Lightning was. We did say that for someone building the Lightning that it did meet the current requirements for a kit to be reqesteried in the EAB category, and that if a builder kept a log ( as they need to any way for the repairmen certificate) that this was all that was needed. An so far some 40 Lightnings have been inspected and in all cases (since they have AWC) that the DARs determined that the builder did do at least 51% of the work. 2. The same build manual that the builder of an ELSA will be also used for quality assurance and the construction of the SLSA airframes, they are identical in every way. No where have we yet stated that we will only produce 90% ELSA, we might do 60%-75% or heck we can even do 100% ELSA if the customer chooses that is what they want. So what is the point to write a separate manual for each? They can just start where there kit is at. If repairs are to be done to a part of the aircraft that they did not build, the owner or mechanic or whom ever does the repair will need to know, how to remove the part, inspect the part, repair the part, and reinstall the part. 3. Yes you are more free to make "approved" changes to a ELSA than an SLSA aircraft, again the key word is approved, and than you as the builder must declare the changes compliance. We already covered this in detail, but than again this was not really your original statement. 4. Yes we will be able to deliver in May of 2009, you don't not work for the company so how would you know the project status. If we say we will deliver we will, I think our reputation has been clearly covered. 5. They will be what ever is ordered, if sales are good we can deliver at a rate of 2 a month for now and maybe 4 with a larger workforce. Now I will make this statement point blank simply because I am annoyed with people who think they can talk on a subject with out any personnel or intimate knowledge of it ,but they just run their mouth to hear them self speak. Pete and my self have been in the Light sport industry since it was born, not just coming into it because we have to. We do live and breath this from day one. Pete's other company Jabiru USA sport aircraft is rank 5th in total SLSA deliveries. He also is on the ASTM committee for making and approving all these little standards that you seem to know nothing about. I am not talking about weather it is 1320 or stalls at 45knts, but the actual standards for aircraft manufacture, quality control, continued airworthiness, and so on. Arion Aircraft was never late to the game; we wanted a good safe kit on the market first. When enough interest was shown in a Light sport compliant kit we design an manufactured an extension and suggested other changes to a builder to help them comply. Than finally only after enough interest was shown in a mostly built or fully built Lightning did we pursue the SLSA market. See if you would have worked for the company or maybe known us a little better you might have known that we were under development of the SLSA long before your AXE fell. I do not think that the Lightning is the right Aircraft for you; in fact I don't think any aircraft is right for you. I would suggest taking up some other hobby as you will never own one of my aircraft and will never be part of this community. Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft, LLC _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AVN100@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 I will repeat my simple Lightning ELSA questions at the end, hoping against hope that in this round, finally, someone can objectively and credibly answer them. It is SO easy to make this about me instead of about the aircraft... and to forget I intend to buy one so must think the company and aircraft are fine overall... yet unlike allah, not perfect. Like Salman Rushdie I get fatwahed by the mullahs for pointing that out, asking questions, and making suggestions. Far easier to attack me and critique my style (or lack of it) instead of answering my questions or contradicting my observations. The posts thusfar do the former with relish but not a single one does the latter. Viz: wampam declares he disagrees with me, as is his right. Doesn't say what he disagrees with. Offers not a single factual contradiction. pequeajim calls me a "House Troll" and then admits that thanks to House Trolls like me criticizing CZAW duplicity on those forums he once monitored, something didn't smell right and saved him making a big financial mistake. I guess that is a veiled thank you. Veil you're velly velcome. Like his pals, he does not offer a single factual contradiction of anything I posted about Arion and the Lightning. Even I will admit some of it MUST be in error and much of it was speculation and/or requests for correction and explanation. He declares he has his Lightning, gets fantastic customer service, and doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone who is in the same position here that he once was in with CZAW = interested but uncommitted, making comparisons with the competition, and wanting to consider all aspects. Simply the most selfish "House Whore" I have ever encountered on any enthusiast forum. Hey, he started the name calling. Walt cheerleads for and thus seems to agree with piquedjimbo that this forum is for praising Arion and meeting the needs of current EAB owners... so prospects and ELSA inquiries be damned. If he and piquedjimbo are right about that, well someone just say so.... and ex-cu-u-u-se me. And may never be heard a discouraging word and the skies be not cloudy all day. In a word, dear Hugh, "no"... but I have been using Macs since graduating from an Apple IIe to an SE and through a half dozen since. As for my role and record in other forums see above, noting that all calls for my removal elsewhere came from company execs or shills who did not want their PR puffery or Ponzi schemes (or cash flow) challenged. Worse, some were from sycophants currying favor while trying to jump ahead of others for early delivery dates. All were answered with ten times as many posts of praise for my independence from average readers. As a result I'm still posting on those forums and still considered objective and reliable, albeit bawdily colorful. I know far less about Arion and the Lightning than I did about those other marques. I have never said Arion is guilty of their deliberate misrepresentations or indeed any malfeasance. Actually I think the long post you refer to was during a pitched battle five years ago with fat-UL advocates who wanted the Sport Pilot movement stillborn or, if they couldn't kill it, hoped Limbaugh-like that it would fail miserably. I see some are still around even though their cause isn't. And as for the insults and derision from Doug K., uhh... don't you fall under the "clearly conflicted interest, personal monetary benefit" banner that drives so many of those ignoring the substance of my concerns thusfar to launch ad hominem attacks? Thought I saw you financially connected to Green Landings which I thought is financially connected to Arion... but retraction and apologies if mistaken. If not and you ARE tied in financially somehow, time for YOUR apology and admission that while market forces and the missed 51% opportunity have brought Pete and Nick late and grateful to the LSA game, they did not originally "live and breathe it" as you claim, unlike some newer 100% SP manufacturers... and remain capable of errors or oversights. Aviation safety and consumer protection depend on asking questions rather than accepting the status quo and/or ad copy. Unethical bribe time. Admit all that and I will cheerfully provide a list of twenty spelling and grammar errors from the comparison table - as part of my constant and consistent product improvement effort. About that chart, if you ARE with Green Landings, doesn't your own comparison table's "free rain" [sic] analysis sort of support my prior (and universally derided) assertion that ELSA allows more equipment and mod flexibility than SLSA? And whassupp with both being the same price? And why advertise (and according to my old pal Dan Johnson take deposits on) SLSA if you only intend to build one for homologation, then go straight to exclusive ELSA production for an extended period? Oh christ, more questions. And clouds in the sky. Who needs this, right? Potential SP buyers who want as much credible, objective information as they can get, that's who. And not just marketing puffery. Obviously not current EAB owners who are free to ignore this topic entirely yet who instead chime in attempting to deny the information to others. So can ANY of you answer ANY of these questions instead of trying to kill the messenger? a) Did Arion miss the 51% EAB opportunity that was out there year after year until last fall (and won't they have another bite at the apple yet) ? b) If the 120knot Lightning ELSA is going to be 90% or more (how much more?) factory or dealer or subcontractor built when the owner gets it and begins the final ten percent or less, why would its ELSA build manual have to be as complex as one for the EAB 170mph Lightning? c) Once your ELSA is complete and registered, are or aren't you much more free to maintain and modify it than you would be with an SLSA? d) Is Arion going to start delivering LSA in May, 2009, per their claim at Sebring to Dan Johnson? e) If they are, will those be ELSA and/or SLSA and what production rate per month of each? I thank any helpful, honest, and brave souls for any answers to the above and additional hard info on Arion LSA models provided myself (perhaps back channel would be best for your safety and reputation) or in public to interested but silent readers. As for the gaggle of indefatigable character assassins, based on an excellent suggestion from Koenigsberg, I fart in your gen-e-ral dee-rection. _____


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:51:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Cockpit checklist
    From: sttwig@wabroadband.com
    I remember seeing Paul's cockpit checklist attached to a message on this forum a while back, but I can't find it again. Since it comes highly recommended, can someone point me toward it or attach it to another message? Thank you, Steve Kit #48 > <info@flylightning.net> > > Heh a new and applicable subject. > > Pauls check list is a good one and fits nicely in the map pocket. > > nick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, > Clive > R > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:30 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist > > <clive.james@uk.bp.com> > > A good list, I'm going to review mine (rather simpler) one with yours > Bear (and Buz's), thanks for the prompt. > After my recent experience (ouch) and the criticality of the braking > for steering I'd add a brake check on the pre-approach checks. > > I landed with a friend in a Jabiru 430 and the brakes failed with a > cracked pipe that only gave us a small retardation before nothing on the > lever. > I'm convinced we'd have found out there was a leak if we'd checked them > downwind. The leak was caused by an ill fitted mod to the brake system > when Jabiru added a second slave. > The tee in the line was fitted at the wheel and the vibration of the tee > was too much for piping. I'm sure Jabiru America have figured that one > already and all Tees are now inboard of the U/C leg. > As for the landing I used the going sideways slows you down more > technique and we stopped before the end, with hindsight we could have > gone around and then dragged the plane in early and slow. > > I digress, when I went off the runway last month there was nothing wrong > with my brakes, I had fixed a leak on the right before the flight and > then whilst struggling with the directional control assumed I had a > problem on the right, NOT having checked the pedal kickback on approach. > > > The other thing I'm not good at having done loads of landings in the > same plane over 8 years is using a checklist, usually just go 'round the > cockpit', something I'm trying to improve on as well! > I'm in the bad habit experience level period I think. > > Regards, Clive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > n5pb@aol.com > Sent: 28 January 2009 01:52 > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist > > Folks, > I put a cockpit checklist together that I intend to use in my lightning. > Most of the information came from the POH. If you want to modify it > for your particular plane feel free. Any comments about it are also > welcomed. > > > Thanks > Bear Bryant > > > -----Original Message----- > From: N1BZRich@aol.com > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:23 am > Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Newsletter for February 2009 > > > All, > The February 2009 Lightning Newsletter (Issue 2-2) is now posted at > the Lightning web site and at Jim Langley's web site. > http://www.flylightning.net/Newsletters.htm > http://www.jimslightning.com/html/newsletters.html > Yes, it is early, but I was pushing to get it done so that Linda > Mathias and I could then concentrate on the LS-1 POH after the Sebring > event (when Nick is again available for questions). I had actually > planned on going to Sebring, as Carl and Pat Beatrice had offered a > place to stay, but a mandatory meeting came up that prevented me from > flying down. I am somewhat involved in a PBS television project called > "Low and Slow over Virginia" which will be a J3 Cub flying around VA > with commentary on neat places to visit and area history (with an > emphasis on aviation history in VA). It will be kind of a travel log > for tourism and history lessons for schools. It will be shown on PBS TV > and in schools around Virginia. Besides the J3 stuff, the Virginia > Aviation Historical Society, that I am on the board of, is working on > funding help at the moment. Donations accepted. :-) Busy time. > As always, any and all feedback is requested. Please. > Blue Skies, > Buz > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:43:48 AM PST US
    From: EAFerguson@aol.com
    Subject: AVN00
    I have block all e-mail from AVN100. Let me know if he decides to sign his messages and I'll take him off the quarantine list. Earl Ferguson **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:50:10 AM PST US
    From: EAFerguson@aol.com
    Subject: avn100
    i have put AVN100 on my quarantine list. If he starts signing his name, somebody please tell me end I'll take him off. Earl Fergusont **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:13:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cockpit checklist
    From: n5pb@aol.com
    Steve, I sent another one directly to you. Paul "Bear" Bryant -----Original Message----- From: sttwig@wabroadband.com Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 1:51 pm Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist I remember seeing Paul's cockpit checklist attached to a message on this forum a while back, but I can't find it again. Since it comes highly recommended, can someone point me toward it or attach it to another message? Thank you, Steve Kit #48 > <info@flylightning.net> > > Heh a new and applicable subject. > > Pauls check list is a good one and fits nicely in the map pocket. > > nick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, > Clive > R > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:30 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist > > <clive.james@uk.bp.com> > > A good list, I'm going to review mine (rather simpler) one with yours > Bear (and Buz's), thanks for the prompt. > After my recent experience (ouch) and the criticality of the braking > for steering I'd add a brake check on the pre-approach checks. > > I landed with a friend in a Jabiru 430 and the brakes failed with a > cracked pipe that only gave us a small retardation before nothing on the > lever. > I'm convinced we'd have found out there was a leak if we'd checked them > downwind. The leak was caused by an ill fitted mod to the brake system > when Jabiru added a second slave. > The tee in the line was fitted at the wheel and the vibration of the tee > was too much for piping. I'm sure Jabiru America have figured that one > already and all Tees are now inboard of the U/C leg. > As for the landing I used the going sideways slows you down more > technique and we stopped before the end, with hindsight we could have > gone around and then dragged the plane in early and slow. > > I digress, when I went off the runway last month there was nothing wrong > with my brakes, I had fixed a leak on the right before the flight and > then whil st struggling with the directional control assumed I had a > problem on the right, NOT having checked the pedal kickback on approach. > > > The other thing I'm not good at having done loads of landings in the > same plane over 8 years is using a checklist, usually just go 'round the > cockpit', something I'm trying to improve on as well! > I'm in the bad habit experience level period I think. > > Regards, Clive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > n5pb@aol.com > Sent: 28 January 2009 01:52 > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Cockpit checklist > > Folks, > I put a cockpit checklist together that I intend to use in my lightning. > Most of the information came from the POH. If you want to modify it > for your particular plane feel free. Any comments about it are also > welcomed. > > > Thanks > Bear Bryant > > > -----Original Message----- > From: N1BZRich@aol.com > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:23 am > Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Newsletter for February 2009 > > > All, > The February 2009 Lightning Newsletter (Issue 2-2) is now posted at > the Lightning web site and at Jim Langley's web site. > http://www.flylightning.net/Newsletters.htm > http://www.jimslightning.com/html/newsletters.html > Yes, it is early, but I was pushing to get it done so that Linda > Mathias and I could then concentrate on the LS-1 POH after the Sebring > event (when Nick is again available for questions). I had actually > planned on going to Sebring, as Carl and Pat Beatrice had offered a > place to stay, but a mandatory meeting came up that prevented me from > flying down. I am somewhat involved in a PBS television project called > "Low and Slow over Virginia" which will be a J3 Cub flying around VA > with commentary on neat places to visit and area history (with an > emphasis on aviation history in VA). It will be kind of a travel log > for tourism an d history lessons for schools. It will be shown on PBS TV > and in schools around Virginia. Besides the J3 stuff, the Virginia > Aviation Historical Society, that I am on the board of, is working on > funding help at the moment. Donations accepted. :-) Busy time. > As always, any and all feedback is requested. Please. > Blue Skies, > Buz > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:37:49 PM PST US
    From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com>
    Subject: Re: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    Hello Buz I haven't thought about Sun-N-Fun yet, but I will look into it. Happy flying. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com<mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com> To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 Thanks for the kind words, Gary. I hope to meet you also. I am once again planning to be at both Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh. How about you? Normally the Lightning guys plan a "Meet and Greet" session for all interested in the Lightning at both SNF and Oshkosh. I am sure they will again this year. It is a good time to meet others on the list and share information about the Lightning. Lets hope that many Lightnings show up at SNF this year. I know World Record Earl will be there, lets just hope he is not wearing his world record "flight suit". Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more<http://aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022>. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Lightning-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:23:33 PM PST US
    From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com>
    Subject: Flight to Lake Havasu
    Hello everyone If you don't mind, I'd like to share my flight experience this morning with you. Lake Havasu City is a rather small metropolitan community adjacent to Lake Havasu. Lake Havasu is a large body of water formed by the Parker Dam on the Colorado River. The river, and its lakes, stretch out for many miles and generally form the border between Arizona and California. The city is nestled in a valley surrounded by several mountain ranges. It appears to be a clean and modern city with a very nice airport and the added attraction of the "London Bridge"! AvGas at the airport is cheaper than anywhere in Arizona...$2.89 per gallon. I'm told that during "Spring Break" Havasu is inundated with thousands of college kids that love to party. Summers are brutally hot! Many days exceed 115 degrees. But today, it was cool and calm! Just the way I like it. I flew from Marana Regional Airport across the unattractive desert to the town of Buckeye as my first waypoint. Remembering the "Hemispherical Rule", I climbed to 7500' enroute but still had to circumnavigate through "Cunningham Pass" to clear the "Harcuvar Mountains". From Buckeye, until reaching the Parker Dam, it was more of the same....mostly uninhabited desert with an occasional airstrip. Passing "Alamo Lake" off my right wingtip helped me endure the painful scenery. Rather suddenly, the Colorado River and Lake Havasu appeared in my windshield. I was pleased. This was very cool! Years ago, I drove to Havasu, but this is the first time I've flown. Flying in my Lightning is the best. Descending from 7500' over the mountains to 3500' over the city was accomplished in about 15 miles. Not a problem. The airport elevation is 783' with a TPA of 1800'. No big deal. I was pleased to see the airport and not a moment too soon. As I mentioned in my previous writting, I consume lots of water while in flight and consequently, I have to pee regularly. This was no exception! I called CTAF for a straight in approach to 32. With no other traffic in the vicinity, there were no objections. As a cautionary note, there are very tall power lines about 1/4 mile from the approach end of 32. One must be careful while on glide slope to avoid mixing it up with the wires. Shocking! After landing, I radioed for fuel. Their staff met me on the taxiway with a golf cart, which I followed to the Terminal. Pretty easy I'd say. They were all very nice and eager to help. They did not object when I requested to fill my own tanks. (I don't like fuel spills on my paint. Call me crazy.) After refueling, I BS'ed with the staff for a while and downed a soda. I enjoyed their company and felt they enjoyed mine. The trip home was similar and without mishap. DATA: TO HAVASU ENROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 38 min. (from takeoff at Marana Airport to touchdown at Havasu Airport) TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 53 min TOTAL MILEAGE: 235 miles AVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpm ENROUTE ALTITUDE: 7500' FUEL USED: Premium Auto Fuel FUEL CONSUMPTION: 8.3 gallons AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION : 4.42 gals/hour RETURN TRIP ENROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 59 min. (from takeoff at Havasu Airport to touchdown at Marana Airport ) TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 2 hour 14 min AVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpm ENROUTE ALTITUDE: 8500' FUEL USED: 100LL AvGas FUEL CONSUMPTION: 11.9 gallons AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION: 5.34 gals/hour I don't know how to explain this, but as I noted before, my engine burns less Premium Auto Fuel per hour than AvGas. There is no difference in performance. No difference in temps. I have noticed a big difference in my wallet though. I really hope you all enjoy this as much as I did. Till the next journey, happy flying. Gary Pennington


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:41:52 PM PST US
    From: "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Flight to Lake Havasu
    Gary, same here, I use auto gas in my cessna and my kitfox and its allways 20 percent better fuel millage. Mine seem to run better on the auto gas also. Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY PENNINGTON To: lightning-list Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Flight to Lake Havasu Hello everyone If you don't mind, I'd like to share my flight experience this morning with you. Lake Havasu City is a rather small metropolitan community adjacent to Lake Havasu. Lake Havasu is a large body of water formed by the Parker Dam on the Colorado River. The river, and its lakes, stretch out for many miles and generally form the border between Arizona and California. The city is nestled in a valley surrounded by several mountain ranges. It appears to be a clean and modern city with a very nice airport and the added attraction of the "London Bridge"! AvGas at the airport is cheaper than anywhere in Arizona...$2.89 per gallon. I'm told that during "Spring Break" Havasu is inundated with thousands of college kids that love to party. Summers are brutally hot! Many days exceed 115 degrees. But today, it was cool and calm! Just the way I like it. I flew from Marana Regional Airport across the unattractive desert to the town of Buckeye as my first waypoint. Remembering the "Hemispherical Rule", I climbed to 7500' enroute but still had to circumnavigate through "Cunningham Pass" to clear the "Harcuvar Mountains". From Buckeye, until reaching the Parker Dam, it was more of the same....mostly uninhabited desert with an occasional airstrip. Passing "Alamo Lake" off my right wingtip helped me endure the painful scenery. Rather suddenly, the Colorado River and Lake Havasu appeared in my windshield. I was pleased. This was very cool! Years ago, I drove to Havasu, but this is the first time I've flown. Flying in my Lightning is the best. Descending from 7500' over the mountains to 3500' over the city was accomplished in about 15 miles. Not a problem. The airport elevation is 783' with a TPA of 1800'. No big deal. I was pleased to see the airport and not a moment too soon. As I mentioned in my previous writting, I consume lots of water while in flight and consequently, I have to pee regularly. This was no exception! I called CTAF for a straight in approach to 32. With no other traffic in the vicinity, there were no objections. As a cautionary note, there are very tall power lines about 1/4 mile from the approach end of 32. One must be careful while on glide slope to avoid mixing it up with the wires. Shocking! After landing, I radioed for fuel. Their staff met me on the taxiway with a golf cart, which I followed to the Terminal. Pretty easy I'd say. They were all very nice and eager to help. They did not object when I requested to fill my own tanks. (I don't like fuel spills on my paint. Call me crazy.) After refueling, I BS'ed with the staff for a while and downed a soda. I enjoyed their company and felt they enjoyed mine. The trip home was similar and without mishap. DATA: TO HAVASU ENROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 38 min. (from takeoff at Marana Airport to touchdown at Havasu Airport) TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 53 min TOTAL MILEAGE: 235 miles AVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpm ENROUTE ALTITUDE: 7500' FUEL USED: Premium Auto Fuel FUEL CONSUMPTION: 8.3 gallons AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION : 4.42 gals/hour RETURN TRIP ENROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 59 min. (from takeoff at Havasu Airport to touchdown at Marana Airport ) TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 2 hour 14 min AVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpm ENROUTE ALTITUDE: 8500' FUEL USED: 100LL AvGas FUEL CONSUMPTION: 11.9 gallons AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION: 5.34 gals/hour I don't know how to explain this, but as I noted before, my engine burns less Premium Auto Fuel per hour than AvGas. There is no difference in performance. No difference in temps. I have noticed a big difference in my wallet though. I really hope you all enjoy this as much as I did. Till the next journey, happy flying. Gary Pennington


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:48:10 PM PST US
    From: "Wayne Lenox" <waynelenox@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: Flight to Lake Havasu
    Gary Great trip, was at Lake Hasvau (HII) last week. Nel and I plan on flyin g to Parker for the Off road races Tomorrow, they will run all weekend. With the weather still questionable Friday. Wayne N123WL -- "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington@q.com> wrote: <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]- -><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif ]-->Hello everyone If you don't mind, I'd like to share my flight experi ence this morning with you. Lake Havasu City is a rather small metropol itan community adjacent to Lake Havasu. Lake Havasu is a large body of w ater formed by the Parker Dam on the Colorado River. The river, and its lakes, stretch out for many miles and generally form the border between Arizona and California. The city is nestled in a valley surrounded by s everal mountain ranges. It appears to be a clean and modern city with a very nice airport and the added attraction of the "London Bridge"! AvGas at the airport is cheaper than anywhere in Arizona...$2.89 per gallon. I'm told that during "Spring Break" Havasu is inundated with thousands o f college kids that love to party. Summers are brutally hot! Many days e xceed 115 degrees. But today, it was cool and calm! Just the way I like it. I flew from Marana Regional Airport across the unattractive desert t o the town of Buckeye as my first waypoint. Remembering the "Hemispheric al Rule", I climbed to 7500' enroute but still had to circumnavigate thr ough "Cunningham Pass" to clear the "Harcuvar Mountains". From Buckeye, until reaching the Parker Dam, it was more of the same....mostly uninhab ited desert with an occasional airstrip. Passing "Alamo Lake" off my rig ht wingtip helped me endure the painful scenery. Rather suddenly, the C olorado River and Lake Havasu appeared in my windshield. I was pleased. This was very cool! Years ago, I drove to Havasu, but this is the first time I've flown. Flying in my Lightning is the best. Descending from 7 500' over the mountains to 3500' over the city was accomplished in about 15 miles. Not a problem. The airport elevation is 783' with a TPA of 18 00'. No big deal. I was pleased to see the airport and not a moment too soon. As I mentioned in my previous writting, I consume lots of water wh ile in flight and consequently, I have to pee regularly. This was no exc eption! I called CTAF for a straight in approach to 32. With no other t raffic in the vicinity, there were no objections. As a cautionary note, there are very tall power lines about 1/4 mile from the approach end of 32. One must be careful while on glide slope to avoid mixing it up with the wires. Shocking! After landing, I radioed for fuel. Their staff met me on the taxiway with a golf cart, which I followed to the Terminal. Pr etty easy I'd say. They were all very nice and eager to help. They did n ot object when I requested to fill my own tanks. (I don't like fuel spil ls on my paint. Call me crazy.) After refueling, I BS'ed with the staff for a while and downed a soda. I enjoyed their company and felt they enj oyed mine. The trip home was similar and without mishap. DATA: TO HAVA SU ENROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 38 min. (from takeoff at Marana Airport to touchdown at Havasu Airport)TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runup time) 1 hour 53 minTOTAL MILEAGE: 235 milesAVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpmENROUTE ALTITUDE: 7500'FUEL USED: Premium Auto FuelFUEL CONSUMPTION: 8.3 gallonsAVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION : 4.42 gals/hour RETURN TRIP E NROUTE FLIGHT TIME: (not including engine startup, warmup, taxi and runu p time) 1 hour 59 min. (from takeoff at Havasu Airport to touchdown at Marana Airport )TOTAL FLIGHT TIME: (including engine startup, warmup, ta xi and runup time) 2 hour 14 minAVERAGE AIRSPEED: 140 mph True at 2850 rpmENROUTE ALTITUDE: 8500 'FUEL USED: 100LL AvGasFUEL CONSUMPTION: 11.9 gallonsAVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION: 5.34 gals/hour I don't know how to explain this, but as I noted before, my engine burns less Premium Auto Fuel per hour than AvGas. There is no difference in p erformance. No difference in temps. I have noticed a big difference in m y wallet though. I really hope you all enjoy this as much as I did. Till ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ==== ____________________________________________________________ Be prepared for any emergency with great first aid supplies. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1mJlTlvz9YjdXonBJJyNLo SJwoHu5aZTNWIG9KDr2tM6ExF/


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:33:53 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3
    I vote this year to have our Arion Lightning gathering at Sun n Fun on Friday so I can finally make it! (yes, selfish reasons; I know, I know.) From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: ELSA = KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Round 3 Thanks for the kind words, Gary. I hope to meet you also. I am once again planning to be at both Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh. How about you? Normally the Lightning guys plan a "Meet and Greet" session for all interested in the Lightning at both SNF and Oshkosh. I am sure they will again this year. It is a good time to meet others on the list and share information about the Lightning. Lets hope that many Lightnings show up at SNF this year. I know World Record Earl will be there, lets just hope he is not wearing his world record "flight suit". Blue Skies, Buz _____ Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to <http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022> stocks and so much more.




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