Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please (GARY PENNINGTON)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please (Kayberg@aol.com)
3. 06:07 AM - Aileron Trim (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com)
4. 06:33 AM - Angle of incidence tool (N1BZRich@aol.com)
5. 06:46 AM - Re: Angle of incidence tool (Daniel DW)
6. 08:52 AM - Engine and trim (FamilyGage@aol.com)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Engine and trim (Mefford, Walt)
8. 11:58 AM - Re: Engines stopping (James, Clive R)
9. 12:16 PM - Re: propeller stop - an improvement being done in the UK (James, Clive R)
10. 02:09 PM - Engine idle and stopping on short final. (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
11. 02:53 PM - Re: Angle of incidence tool (selwyn)
12. 03:34 PM - engine stoppage (FamilyGage@aol.com)
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Subject: | Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please |
Good morning Charles
I think most of us have had the engine die on final when pulling off the
throttle during the first flight or so. I adjusted my idle up slightly,
(875 rpms minimum), and installed the cable stop. I am very surprised
that the engines are still going out with the idle set low. In my mind,
it could be hazardous.
With respect to the plane pulling left, mine did too. The angle of
incidence on my wings is within 1/2 degree of each other and it still
yawed and rolled left . However, I must tell you that it depended
somewhat on the weight distribution. What I mean is, if I was in the
plane by myself, it yawed and rolled. With a passenger, not so much.
Also, it varied with speed. I tried adjusting the flaps and ended up
with them way out of whack! Not a safe condition...especially when doing
stalls. I finally adjusted the flaps and ailerons normally and made a
small trim tab for the right aileron and one for the rudder. I used thin
aluminum. The first tabs were rather large, (1"x1"x8"). I simply taped
them on (temporarily) with Duct Tape.....yes, good old Duct Tape, and
then flew with them. I gradually trimmed them down till the plane flew
straight and level under my normal flying conditions, i.e. just me in
the plane at normal cruise speed. Then, I painted them to match the
plane and glued them on with GE Silicone. Note: use the Silicone
sparingly for a neat job. To hold them in place till the Silicone cures,
use green masking tape and let it cure for 24 hours. They are barely
noticeable and work very well.
I hope your flying is the best.
Gary Pennington
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Dewey<mailto:cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
To: lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions
please
<cdewey6969@yahoo.com<mailto:cdewey6969@yahoo.com>>
My Jabiru 3300 engine died on final the other day when coming down
from full throttle to low throttle... interesting note- the propeller
stopped dead in its tracks- unlike most planes where the prop keeps
spinning after stopping- is this normal? Is the engine dying on low
throttle just a matter of adjusting the idle up? I*'d like to keep the
engine from cutting off in the future... By the way, the engine did
start right up after landing- the landing was done with the engine
off...also...anyone experience any problems with their Lightning pulling
to the left or right (not flying hands off?). Mine is pulling (banking)
to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... Thanks
Charles
--- On Fri, 2/13/09, Wayne Lenox
<waynelenox@juno.com<mailto:waynelenox@juno.com>> wrote:
> From: Wayne Lenox <waynelenox@juno.com<mailto:waynelenox@juno.com>>
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: LAKESIDE LIGHTNING SHOW AND TELL
> To:
lightning-list@matronics.com<mailto:lightning-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 10:02 PM
> Lightning fly-in starts at 9:00 AM Tomorrow at lakeside.
> See you then.
> Wayne
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please |
In a message dated 2/18/2009 10:27:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cdewey6969@yahoo.com writes:
Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct that
as well...
I know Buz has given you some aerodynamic explanation, but there is another.
Were you the only occupant?
Was you fuel load equal?
If you want it to fly perfectly straight, you have to decide if that will be
accomplished solo or dual. Having a body sit on the right would cure the
left turn..... if you dont have one now.
Also, if you have unequal fuel load, it will cause a turn, particularly to
the left.
I would test fly for that before I changed the flap.
Doug Koenigsberg
Message 3
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>>Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct
that as well...
I know Buz has given you some aerodynamic explanation, but there is another.
Were you the only occupant?
Was you fuel load equal?
If you want it to fly perfectly straight, you have to decide if that will be
accomplished solo or dual. Having a body sit on the right would cure the
left turn..... if you don't have one now.<<
Hey all: The above is why I put the aileron trim on my "Jet". Most of the
details are in the last newsletter.
I do not fly with passengers very often, but it is nice to be able to change
the trim when I want.
Lynn
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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Subject: | Angle of incidence tool |
In a message dated 2/19/2009 2:24:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ddw55@hotmail.com writes:
Nick has a tool to very accurately set the incidence.
How does it work? Any pictures available?
Hi Daniel,
The answer to your question about a photo of the incidence setting tool
is - yes and no. I thought I still had one in my files, but must have
deleted it after it was published in the newsletter. So, to see a photo of the
tool, go to the June 2008 Lightning Newsletter (Volume 1, Issue 5) and you will
find a photo and write up on page 9.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Message 5
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Subject: | Angle of incidence tool |
Jezus=2C
getting older certainly has its disadvantages.
I do remember now.
Thanks for the refresh.
Daniel
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Subject: Lightning-List: Angle of incidence tool
In a message dated 2/19/2009 2:24:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C ddw55@ho
tmail.com writes:
Nick has a tool to very accurately set the incidence.
How does it work? Any pictures available?
Hi Daniel=2C
The answer to your question about a photo of the incidence setting tool
is - yes and no. I thought I still had one in my files=2C but must have d
eleted it after it was published in the newsletter. So=2C to see a photo o
f the tool=2C go to the June 2008 Lightning Newsletter (Volume 1=2C Issue 5
) and you will find a photo and write up on page 9.
Blue Skies=2C
Buz
Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.
_________________________________________________________________
Dit schooljaar ben jij gratis de held online!
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Hello:
Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very short
final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not come up with an
answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle briskly. I have
followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine stoppage.
My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the left
flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference.
Trim tabs may well be the answer.
Ray Gage
83TW
**************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how
to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
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I have had it happen to me at least once under the same conditions as
you have described.
Walt Mefford
N881WP
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FamilyGage@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:51 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and trim
Hello:
Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very
short final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not
come up with an answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle
briskly. I have followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine
stoppage.
My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the
left flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference.
Trim tabs may well be the answer.
Ray Gage
83TW
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Subject: | Engines stopping |
The problem is caused by the fact the throttle stop isn't strong enough
to prevent it being flexed by operating the throttle from the pilots
control.
As explained by others an additional stop on the cable is recommended.
The simplest and cheapest way of fitting this is to use an electrical
screw connector removed from it's plastic.
These connectors are readily available and known in the UK as 'chocolate
block'. See attached pictures (apologise for lack of clarity, phone
pictures).
The pain when fitting is the fact the end of the cable needs removing
from the cable to fit it.
This additional stop prevents the cable from being pulled too far and
bending the throttle stop arm which holds the adjustment screw (at a
strange angle).
The throttle stop arm is one of those Jabiru issues that isn't really
applicable to a Jabiru plane throttle so hasn't been 'improved' by the
manufacturer.
During the early hours your Jabiru engine will loosen up and the idle
will increase, you will have to make a few adjustments in the first 100
hrs. There is also the issue of the idle mixture which if not set
correctly will make the idle running sensitive and liable to stop at
higher revs than you would like.
An 850 rpm idle on finals will give 1000 rpm or more, revs that will
make many aircraft float along the runway nicely (tell me about it....).
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mefford,
Walt
Sent: 19 February 2009 17:35
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine and trim
I have had it happen to me at least once under the same conditions as
you have described.
Walt Mefford
N881WP
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FamilyGage@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:51 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and trim
Hello:
Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very
short final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not
come up with an answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle
briskly. I have followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine
stoppage.
My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the
left flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference.
Trim tabs may well be the answer.
Ray Gage
83TW
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Subject: | propeller stop - an improvement being done in the |
UK
Reference the engine stopping abruptly:
As mentioned lightweight props don't have much inertial and a decent
compression makes the prop seem to stop dead. I've seen a big change in
mine since it's new heads at 1000 hrs.
One modification that is recommended in the UK is around the 'barrel
nuts'. I've had this done to both my Jabiru engines but cannot say one
way or another whether it makes a difference.
The flange on the barrel base nut impinges on the radius of the base of
the barrel to the outer wall of the cylinder, this can cause tension in
the barrel that acts on the pistons.
Like I said, I don't know one way or another but an engine that was
heated with a hot air gun showed ovality as it heated up. Several thou
and enough that would mean the barrel was pout of spec.
With the edges taken off the barrel nuts this didn't happen.
If anyone has access to barrels that are not on an engine look for
strike marks on the side of the barrel base adjacent to the holes
between the hole and the barrel wall. The marks are where the barrel
nuts bear down on the flange.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Dewey
Sent: 19 February 2009 03:25
Subject: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions
please
--> <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
My Jabiru 3300 engine died on final the other day when coming down from
full throttle to low throttle... interesting note- the propeller stopped
dead in its tracks- unlike most planes where the prop keeps spinning
after stopping- is this normal? Is the engine dying on low throttle
just a matter of adjusting the idle up? I*'d like to keep the engine
from cutting off in the future... By the way, the engine did start right
up after landing- the landing was done with the engine
off...also...anyone experience any problems with their Lightning pulling
to the left or right (not flying hands off?). Mine is pulling (banking)
to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... Thanks
Charles
--- On Fri, 2/13/09, Wayne Lenox <waynelenox@juno.com> wrote:
> From: Wayne Lenox <waynelenox@juno.com>
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: LAKESIDE LIGHTNING SHOW AND TELL
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 10:02 PM Lightning fly-in starts at
> 9:00 AM Tomorrow at lakeside.
> See you then.
> Wayne
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Make money while staying at home. Click here for information on
> top-notch home businesses.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1SEY9YouG90bcuK7Ils8
> y71U710CDcP1IwExrVKshcCV2JF/
Message 10
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Subject: | Engine idle and stopping on short final. |
Since the subject of engine idle and stopping on final has been getting a
lot of message traffic recently I thought I would add a few comments. First,
having just today discussed this with Mark Stauffer from Lightning, we have
decided to cover it in depth in a future Newsletter Technical Tips section.
Having said that, please take a look at the Tech Tips section of the January
2009 issue of the newsletter. It was covered somewhat in that issue, so you
may glean some information by reading that.
As Clive mentioned, this is usually a problem early on because the engine
idle changes as it is broken in. Also, don't forget that the idle will also
tend to change from summer to winter. And if you are really jerking the
throttle to idle, let up a little on that as Ray's A&P mentioned. Treat her like
a lady and be nice and gentle. Bottom line, as you get more time in your
jet, you will become more in tune with it and will be able to tell that the
engine is about to quit due to low idle and you will automatically "jazz" the
throttle a little to keep it running. When I notice that happening is generally
when I realize I have not done that summer / winter idle adjustment.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Angle of incidence tool |
I developed a similar sort of tool with an adjustable stop that allows it to be
used with an ordinary builders bubble level. Details and a picture are here
http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/blogs/blogs-3/workshop-day-39/
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231121#231121
Message 12
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Gentlemen:
Several comments that I did not include in a recent e-mail.
The engine stoppage will occur any time or place that one aggressively
brings the throttle back to idle. This will occur in the air when practicing
maneuvers, or on the ground when another plane or object will cause one to close
the throttle rapidly. Think ahead and be gentle with the engine.
We also had a problem with a loss of up elevator feel during short landings
and practicing stalls. Purchased the Ray Allen electric elevator trim from
Lightning, and this made a major change in the control inputs. Should you
have this situation, this is a good investment.
Ray Gage
83TW
**************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how
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