---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/19/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please (GARY PENNINGTON) 2. 04:47 AM - Re: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please (Kayberg@aol.com) 3. 06:07 AM - Aileron Trim (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 4. 06:33 AM - Angle of incidence tool (N1BZRich@aol.com) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: Angle of incidence tool (Daniel DW) 6. 08:52 AM - Engine and trim (FamilyGage@aol.com) 7. 09:37 AM - Re: Engine and trim (Mefford, Walt) 8. 11:58 AM - Re: Engines stopping (James, Clive R) 9. 12:16 PM - Re: propeller stop - an improvement being done in the UK (James, Clive R) 10. 02:09 PM - Engine idle and stopping on short final. (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 11. 02:53 PM - Re: Angle of incidence tool (selwyn) 12. 03:34 PM - engine stoppage (FamilyGage@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:05 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please Good morning Charles I think most of us have had the engine die on final when pulling off the throttle during the first flight or so. I adjusted my idle up slightly, (875 rpms minimum), and installed the cable stop. I am very surprised that the engines are still going out with the idle set low. In my mind, it could be hazardous. With respect to the plane pulling left, mine did too. The angle of incidence on my wings is within 1/2 degree of each other and it still yawed and rolled left . However, I must tell you that it depended somewhat on the weight distribution. What I mean is, if I was in the plane by myself, it yawed and rolled. With a passenger, not so much. Also, it varied with speed. I tried adjusting the flaps and ended up with them way out of whack! Not a safe condition...especially when doing stalls. I finally adjusted the flaps and ailerons normally and made a small trim tab for the right aileron and one for the rudder. I used thin aluminum. The first tabs were rather large, (1"x1"x8"). I simply taped them on (temporarily) with Duct Tape.....yes, good old Duct Tape, and then flew with them. I gradually trimmed them down till the plane flew straight and level under my normal flying conditions, i.e. just me in the plane at normal cruise speed. Then, I painted them to match the plane and glued them on with GE Silicone. Note: use the Silicone sparingly for a neat job. To hold them in place till the Silicone cures, use green masking tape and let it cure for 24 hours. They are barely noticeable and work very well. I hope your flying is the best. Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Dewey To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please > My Jabiru 3300 engine died on final the other day when coming down from full throttle to low throttle... interesting note- the propeller stopped dead in its tracks- unlike most planes where the prop keeps spinning after stopping- is this normal? Is the engine dying on low throttle just a matter of adjusting the idle up? I*'d like to keep the engine from cutting off in the future... By the way, the engine did start right up after landing- the landing was done with the engine off...also...anyone experience any problems with their Lightning pulling to the left or right (not flying hands off?). Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... Thanks Charles --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Wayne Lenox > wrote: > From: Wayne Lenox > > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: LAKESIDE LIGHTNING SHOW AND TELL > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 10:02 PM > Lightning fly-in starts at 9:00 AM Tomorrow at lakeside. > See you then. > Wayne > > ____________________________________________________________ > Make money while staying at home. Click here for > information on top-notch home businesses. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1SEY9YouG90bcuK7Ils8y71 U710CDcP1IwExrVKshcCV2JF/ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:05 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please In a message dated 2/18/2009 10:27:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cdewey6969@yahoo.com writes: Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... I know Buz has given you some aerodynamic explanation, but there is another. Were you the only occupant? Was you fuel load equal? If you want it to fly perfectly straight, you have to decide if that will be accomplished solo or dual. Having a body sit on the right would cure the left turn..... if you dont have one now. Also, if you have unequal fuel load, it will cause a turn, particularly to the left. I would test fly for that before I changed the flap. Doug Koenigsberg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:50 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Aileron Trim >>Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... I know Buz has given you some aerodynamic explanation, but there is another. Were you the only occupant? Was you fuel load equal? If you want it to fly perfectly straight, you have to decide if that will be accomplished solo or dual. Having a body sit on the right would cure the left turn..... if you don't have one now.<< Hey all: The above is why I put the aileron trim on my "Jet". Most of the details are in the last newsletter. I do not fly with passengers very often, but it is nice to be able to change the trim when I want. Lynn **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:09 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Angle of incidence tool In a message dated 2/19/2009 2:24:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ddw55@hotmail.com writes: Nick has a tool to very accurately set the incidence. How does it work? Any pictures available? Hi Daniel, The answer to your question about a photo of the incidence setting tool is - yes and no. I thought I still had one in my files, but must have deleted it after it was published in the newsletter. So, to see a photo of the tool, go to the June 2008 Lightning Newsletter (Volume 1, Issue 5) and you will find a photo and write up on page 9. Blue Skies, Buz **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:56 AM PST US From: Daniel DW Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Angle of incidence tool Jezus=2C getting older certainly has its disadvantages. I do remember now. Thanks for the refresh. Daniel From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Angle of incidence tool In a message dated 2/19/2009 2:24:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C ddw55@ho tmail.com writes: Nick has a tool to very accurately set the incidence. How does it work? Any pictures available? Hi Daniel=2C The answer to your question about a photo of the incidence setting tool is - yes and no. I thought I still had one in my files=2C but must have d eleted it after it was published in the newsletter. So=2C to see a photo o f the tool=2C go to the June 2008 Lightning Newsletter (Volume 1=2C Issue 5 ) and you will find a photo and write up on page 9. Blue Skies=2C Buz Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. _________________________________________________________________ Dit schooljaar ben jij gratis de held online! http://get.live.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:34 AM PST US From: FamilyGage@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and trim Hello: Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very short final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not come up with an answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle briskly. I have followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine stoppage. My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the left flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference. Trim tabs may well be the answer. Ray Gage 83TW **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine and trim From: "Mefford, Walt" I have had it happen to me at least once under the same conditions as you have described. Walt Mefford N881WP ________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FamilyGage@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:51 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and trim Hello: Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very short final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not come up with an answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle briskly. I have followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine stoppage. My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the left flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference. Trim tabs may well be the answer. Ray Gage 83TW ________________________________ You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engines stopping From: "James, Clive R" The problem is caused by the fact the throttle stop isn't strong enough to prevent it being flexed by operating the throttle from the pilots control. As explained by others an additional stop on the cable is recommended. The simplest and cheapest way of fitting this is to use an electrical screw connector removed from it's plastic. These connectors are readily available and known in the UK as 'chocolate block'. See attached pictures (apologise for lack of clarity, phone pictures). The pain when fitting is the fact the end of the cable needs removing from the cable to fit it. This additional stop prevents the cable from being pulled too far and bending the throttle stop arm which holds the adjustment screw (at a strange angle). The throttle stop arm is one of those Jabiru issues that isn't really applicable to a Jabiru plane throttle so hasn't been 'improved' by the manufacturer. During the early hours your Jabiru engine will loosen up and the idle will increase, you will have to make a few adjustments in the first 100 hrs. There is also the issue of the idle mixture which if not set correctly will make the idle running sensitive and liable to stop at higher revs than you would like. An 850 rpm idle on finals will give 1000 rpm or more, revs that will make many aircraft float along the runway nicely (tell me about it....). Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mefford, Walt Sent: 19 February 2009 17:35 Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Engine and trim I have had it happen to me at least once under the same conditions as you have described. Walt Mefford N881WP ________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FamilyGage@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:51 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and trim Hello: Have had the engine completely stop on several occasions and on very short final. MY A/P friend looked at it several times and could not come up with an answer except to not pull the throttle back to idle briskly. I have followed his advise, and have had no problem of engine stoppage. My plane also wants to turn to the left. We adjusted the flaps, as the left flap was about 3 degrees lower. Made no difference. Trim tabs may well be the answer. Ray Gage 83TW ________________________________ You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:31 PM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: propeller stop - an improvement being done in the UK From: "James, Clive R" Reference the engine stopping abruptly: As mentioned lightweight props don't have much inertial and a decent compression makes the prop seem to stop dead. I've seen a big change in mine since it's new heads at 1000 hrs. One modification that is recommended in the UK is around the 'barrel nuts'. I've had this done to both my Jabiru engines but cannot say one way or another whether it makes a difference. The flange on the barrel base nut impinges on the radius of the base of the barrel to the outer wall of the cylinder, this can cause tension in the barrel that acts on the pistons. Like I said, I don't know one way or another but an engine that was heated with a hot air gun showed ovality as it heated up. Several thou and enough that would mean the barrel was pout of spec. With the edges taken off the barrel nuts this didn't happen. If anyone has access to barrels that are not on an engine look for strike marks on the side of the barrel base adjacent to the holes between the hole and the barrel wall. The marks are where the barrel nuts bear down on the flange. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Dewey Sent: 19 February 2009 03:25 Subject: Lightning-List: Engine stop / propeller stop - need opinions please --> My Jabiru 3300 engine died on final the other day when coming down from full throttle to low throttle... interesting note- the propeller stopped dead in its tracks- unlike most planes where the prop keeps spinning after stopping- is this normal? Is the engine dying on low throttle just a matter of adjusting the idle up? I*'d like to keep the engine from cutting off in the future... By the way, the engine did start right up after landing- the landing was done with the engine off...also...anyone experience any problems with their Lightning pulling to the left or right (not flying hands off?). Mine is pulling (banking) to the left...need opinions on how to correct that as well... Thanks Charles --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Wayne Lenox wrote: > From: Wayne Lenox > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: LAKESIDE LIGHTNING SHOW AND TELL > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 10:02 PM Lightning fly-in starts at > 9:00 AM Tomorrow at lakeside. > See you then. > Wayne > > ____________________________________________________________ > Make money while staying at home. Click here for information on > top-notch home businesses. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1SEY9YouG90bcuK7Ils8 > y71U710CDcP1IwExrVKshcCV2JF/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:04 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Engine idle and stopping on short final. Since the subject of engine idle and stopping on final has been getting a lot of message traffic recently I thought I would add a few comments. First, having just today discussed this with Mark Stauffer from Lightning, we have decided to cover it in depth in a future Newsletter Technical Tips section. Having said that, please take a look at the Tech Tips section of the January 2009 issue of the newsletter. It was covered somewhat in that issue, so you may glean some information by reading that. As Clive mentioned, this is usually a problem early on because the engine idle changes as it is broken in. Also, don't forget that the idle will also tend to change from summer to winter. And if you are really jerking the throttle to idle, let up a little on that as Ray's A&P mentioned. Treat her like a lady and be nice and gentle. Bottom line, as you get more time in your jet, you will become more in tune with it and will be able to tell that the engine is about to quit due to low idle and you will automatically "jazz" the throttle a little to keep it running. When I notice that happening is generally when I realize I have not done that summer / winter idle adjustment. Blue Skies, Buz **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:20 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Angle of incidence tool From: "selwyn" I developed a similar sort of tool with an adjustable stop that allows it to be used with an ordinary builders bubble level. Details and a picture are here http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/blogs/blogs-3/workshop-day-39/ -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231121#231121 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:36 PM PST US From: FamilyGage@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: engine stoppage Gentlemen: Several comments that I did not include in a recent e-mail. The engine stoppage will occur any time or place that one aggressively brings the throttle back to idle. This will occur in the air when practicing maneuvers, or on the ground when another plane or object will cause one to close the throttle rapidly. Think ahead and be gentle with the engine. We also had a problem with a loss of up elevator feel during short landings and practicing stalls. Purchased the Ray Allen electric elevator trim from Lightning, and this made a major change in the control inputs. Should you have this situation, this is a good investment. Ray Gage 83TW **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. 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