---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/02/09: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:16 AM - Re: Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines (Cskip513@aol.com) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Lake Havasu Flight (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (flylightning) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: Determining IAS (flylightning) 5. 07:08 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Mark Stauffer) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Determining IAS (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 7. 08:25 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Jim Langley) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Mark Stauffer) 10. 10:01 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Jim Langley) 11. 10:04 AM - Re: Determining IAS (Jim Langley) 12. 10:10 AM - Teaser again (Jim Langley) 13. 10:14 AM - Re: Determining IAS (flylightning) 14. 10:35 AM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! () 15. 12:47 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (GARY PENNINGTON) 16. 01:03 PM - Re: Lake Havasu Flight (GARY PENNINGTON) 17. 01:08 PM - Re: Determining IAS (GARY PENNINGTON) 18. 01:22 PM - Re: Determining IAS (Jim Langley) 19. 04:17 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (Wayne Lenox) 20. 04:29 PM - Re: Lake Havasu Flight (Kayberg@aol.com) 21. 05:23 PM - Re: Lake Havasu Flight (Wayne Lenox) 22. 05:40 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (N1BZRich@aol.com) 23. 05:48 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (Wayne Lenox) 24. 07:20 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 25. 07:21 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 26. 07:39 PM - Re: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! (N1BZRich@aol.com) 27. 08:50 PM - Re: Lake Havasu Flight (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:21 AM PST US From: Cskip513@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines please change my email address to: _cskip513@verizon.net_ (mailto:cskip513@verizon.net) . I have changed ISP.thank you, cliff stone **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:01 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight In a message dated 3/1/2009 9:03:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: Now, it is important to note that I carry a 55 gallon plastic barrel in the back of my truck for fuel. I installed a hand crank pump and 30' fuel hose with a really good filter attached. The filter is a canister type that separates water if there is any. I hope it is the METAL canister type. A resident of Green Landings had a clear plastic filter on his fuel hose that had a replaceable element. Tho it had given some years of service, when ethanol came along with the Amoco fuel, the plastic got soft and then cracked open. Since it was hooked to an electrically driven pump, there was a period of drama with gasoline being sprayed about the hangar. My opinion is that careful thought and observation should be given to the components of a fuel system these days, particularly since ethanol can bring a variety of problems. I think hoses, filters and the fuel itself should be carefully inspected frequently. Doug Koenigsberg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:54 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! At about 10000 feet and 2950-3000RPM 170 TAS is possible with the long wing tips. nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! Hello Scott Is Havasu big enough for Offshore Power Boats? I would love to see the races! Also, the scenery will be outstanding! I will seriously consider flying out there. If you've read any of my responses on this site, you may remember my philosophies ... 1) "nothing is perfect" and 2) "everything is a compromise". That said, "It depends". You have obviously investigated the Lightning, I assume you like the looks...most people do. It is a great looking plane and generates lots of interest wherever you go. Everywhere I fly, at least one person will comment on how good it looks. Most people think it is a "Lancair". My response is...."No, Lancairs are much slower". Just kidding. Anyway, I am 6'3" and weigh 195 lbs. I cut and lowered my seat pan 1" which gave me a little more head room. I fit nicely in the seat and it is very comfortable. If you are 280, you will be snug. I suggest you visit Greg Hobbs in Marana, Arizona for demo flight or go to Tennessee. Shoulder room is adequate. Adjustable rudder peddles are handy. Here is some data on my Lightning. I hope it helps in your decision: 1) Cruise speed @ 2850 rpm @ 7000': 133 +/- IAS, 145 TAS (Note: I have read reports from other builders that they achieve 170 mph from their planes. I don't know how they managed it. I wish I knew. Maybe it is at full throttle.) 2) Fuel used: Premium Auto Fuel or AvGas 3) Fuel consumption: 3.9 to 4.5 gals/hour (Note: It burns more AvGas that auto fuel) 4) Rate of climb: (depending on atmospheric conditions) 900-1300 fpm with just me in the plane Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: scottarden@cox.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:52 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! I will be in Lake Havasu the last weekend of April for the big Offshore Powerboat race. Anyone planning to go too? I am very interested in seeing a lightning. I have been unable to get away to travel to Gary's to see his. I am in So. Ca. Gary, if you have nothing to do on Friday, April 24, and feel like flying up to Havasu (or if you're not too far from there I could drive to you), I'd love to see the plane. You see I'm pretty sure I want to hoin your fraternity and build one, but I'm not sure I will fit. I'm 6'4 and #280! Your thoughts? -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:47 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Jim, You can do a wind triangle or wind star to determine the TAS with a GPS. Most steam gauges ASI have a TAS ring you can paly with if you set it right than you can compare that to the TAS you are getting form the GPS rns and see if it is close. nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Gary, you made me thing of a question with your last post. How do you guys calibrate, or verify the indicated airspeed of your instruments, be it a steam gage or your EFIS. Flying along with another airplane that has a known correct reading? Using a GPS and flying a course, (ugg.) Jim! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:31 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml. I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:53 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an average calculation. Lynn In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: _http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm_ (http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm) and another: _http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml_ (http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml) . I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS From: Jim Langley Thanks everyone. In looking at the mono meter, I m wondering if i can also use it to make a martini? On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM, wrote: > Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will > understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an > average calculation. > Lynn > > In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mark@flylightning.net writes: > > *Jim,* > ** > *You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something > else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: > http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: > http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml.* > ** > *I might make one just for the fun of it.* > ** > *Hope this helps.* > ** > *Mark* > * > > Mark Stauffer > Production Manager > Arion Aircraft > 2842 Hwy 231 North > Shelbyville, TN 37160 > (931) 680-1781 > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matron.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > ------------------------------ > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:41 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS In a message dated 3/2/2009 11:25:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: Thanks everyone. In looking at the mono meter, I m wondering if i can also use it to make a martini? as long as it is shaken, not stirred. dk ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:15 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS I'm pretty sure it can be easily converted into a beer bong that can be used at local tailgate parties! Maybe you can determine the speed of drinking in mph. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:25 AM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Thanks everyone. In looking at the mono meter, I m wondering if i can also use it to make a martini? On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM, wrote: Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an average calculation. Lynn In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml. I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matron.m atronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! tor?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List a target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:53 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS "Maybe you can determine the speed of drinking in mph" My radar gun doesn't go that high! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:30 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS I'm pretty sure it can be easily converted into a beer bong that can be used at local tailgate parties! Maybe you can determine the speed of drinking in mph. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Thanks everyone. In looking at the mono meter, I m wondering if i can also use it to make a martini? On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM, wrote: Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an average calculation. Lynn In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml. I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matron.m atronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! tor?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List a target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:22 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Good point. This is why Mark is my hero. Like Kahn (from Star Trek fame), his is a superior mind. (grin) From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an average calculation. Lynn In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml. I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matron.m atronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See p:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID% 3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62> yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:53 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: Teaser again Here is another teaser. I had to get this shot before Ryan came in with the big bat. I just got out alive. Secret Agent N730AL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:27 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Yea, you know that general chang from Star trek VI is captain Von Trap from sound of music.thats a swing! nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Good point. This is why Mark is my hero. Like Kahn (from Star Trek fame), his is a superior mind. (grin) From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Hey Jim: After you read up on making and using a mono meter, you will understand why us simple minded pilots fly into and with the wind and do an average calculation. Lynn In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:09:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@flylightning.net writes: Jim, You didn't seem too thrilled flying wind triangles so here's something else to try. Make yourself a manometer! Here's one link: http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm and another: http://iflyez.com/manometer.shtml. I might make one just for the fun of it. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Stauffer Production Manager Arion Aircraft 2842 Hwy 231 North Shelbyville, TN 37160 (931) 680-1781 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matron.m atronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:17 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! Hey, JD! I was back there this past Sept for the OSS World Finals. Beautiful place! GREAT race venue. If anyone gets a chance to go, I highly recommend it! -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. Arden ---- "J.D. Stewart" wrote: > Just in case someone's in the Midwest and wants to see powerboat races, > I live right on the water @ Lake of the Ozarks, in MO. There are races and > poker runs here all the time. If someone wanted to fly their Lightning in, > I'd gladly trade some boat time for airplane time. :>) That goes for you > too, Nick (or anyone at the factory). > I'm 6'2" also with a long torso. 34" inseam, though. It was a tight > fit for me in the silver demo plane. I'd want to lower my seat pan also. > J.D. Stewart > UltraFun AirSports, LLC > http:// www.ultrafunairsports.com > Titan Aircraft E-mail list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircraft/ > Challenger E-mail list > http://challenger.inebraska.com > > > _____ > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY > PENNINGTON > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 6:28 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! > > > Hello Scott > > Is Havasu big enough for Offshore Power Boats? I would love to see the > races! Also, the scenery will be outstanding! I will seriously consider > flying out there. > > If you've read any of my responses on this site, you may remember my > philosophies ... 1) "nothing is perfect" and 2) "everything is a > compromise". That said, "It depends". You have obviously investigated the > Lightning, I assume you like the looks...most people do. It is a great > looking plane and generates lots of interest wherever you go. Everywhere I > fly, at least one person will comment on how good it looks. Most people > think it is a "Lancair". My response is...."No, Lancairs are much slower". > Just kidding. > > Anyway, I am 6'3" and weigh 195 lbs. I cut and lowered my seat pan 1" which > gave me a little more head room. I fit nicely in the seat and it is very > comfortable. If you are 280, you will be snug. I suggest you visit Greg > Hobbs in Marana, Arizona for demo flight or go to Tennessee. Shoulder room > is adequate. Adjustable rudder peddles are handy. > > Here is some data on my Lightning. I hope it helps in your decision: > > 1) Cruise speed @ 2850 rpm @ 7000': 133 +/- IAS, 145 TAS (Note: I > have read reports from other builders that they achieve > 170 mph from their > planes. I don't know how they managed it. I wish I knew. Maybe it > is at full > throttle.) > 2) Fuel used: Premium Auto Fuel or AvGas > 3) Fuel consumption: 3.9 to 4.5 gals/hour (Note: It burns more AvGas > that auto fuel) > 4) Rate of climb: (depending on atmospheric conditions) 900-1300 fpm > with just me in the plane > > Gary Pennington > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: scottarden@cox.net > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:52 AM > Subject: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! > > > I will be in Lake Havasu the last weekend of April for the big Offshore > Powerboat race. Anyone planning to go too? I am very interested in seeing > a lightning. I have been unable to get away to travel to Gary's to see his. > I am in So. Ca. Gary, if you have nothing to do on Friday, April 24, and > feel like flying up to Havasu (or if you're not too far from there I could > drive to you), I'd love to see the plane. You see I'm pretty sure I want to > hoin your fraternity and build one, but I'm not sure I will fit. I'm 6'4 > and #280! Your thoughts? > -- > Have a blessed day! > Scott C. nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; > via the Web > title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; > title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== > =========== > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:14 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! Hello Buz Thanks for the response. I also have the Grand Rapids EFIS. One thing I've noticed though is that the OAT reading is never the same as the reported field temp. I spoke to GRT about it after finishing the plane. They said it was a bad sensor so they sent another. It reads the same. I installed the first sensor in the fresh air intake. The second one I installed inside the gear leg fairing to avoid temp fluctuations due to engine heat. No change. Anyway, higher altitude makes little difference in the IAS and TAS as indicated by the EFIS at 2850 rpm. As I noted, the steam gauge ASI reads identical to the EFIS for IAS With the prop that Nick sent, my engine will turn max +/- 3000-3100 rpm. It is my understanding that the max continuous rpm is 2850. Due you commonly run higher and if so, isn't that hard on the engine? I don't know what else to say. At between 6000'-9000' and 2850 rpm, IAS is approx. 134 mph and TAS is about 144 mph....according to the gauges. Thanks again. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 2/28/2009 7:29:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: I have read reports from other builders that they achieve 170 mph from their planes. I don't know how they managed it. I wish I knew. Maybe it is at full throttle.) Gary, The 170 TAS that I often get on a long cross country is certainly not at full throttle. I am normally up at 10,000' or sometimes even higher, depending on winds and weather. The cross county technique that I use is to set the fuel flow that I want and then accept the rpm and the true airspeed that it gives me. After my level off, I normally set 6 gallons per hour and, with the prop I have been using - a 64ZK55, that will usually give the something around 165 to 172 mph true airspeed when at altitudes of 10 to 12 thousand feet. Of course rpm varies a little but is normally around 3050 to 3100. Note my CHTs, EGTs and oil temps are all well within the green at this setting. In fact, all are green right on up through WOT. Now a few other thoughts. As far as comparing airspeeds with various props, rpm, fuel flows, etc. It is always better to have at least one common point. Nick and I most always use 5,000' when doing speed comparisons. The main reason for picking 5,000' is that you normally have smooth air when that high (even in the summer) and of course you want smooth air so you can trim the airplane up and let the engine run for a while at whatever rpm you are using so things settle down. (I often use auto pilot with altitude hold on.) Another thing we normally do is to use 5,000 density altitude (as either determined by your EFIS or by you if you know OAT and pressure altitude). Of course, most of us have the Grand Rapids EFIS so we always know the exact density altitude, and by always using the same density altitude for the speed runs you always have good numbers that are already compensated for when you make runs on different days, even summer to winter. Now having said that, the 64ZK55 that I have used for about two years is really not enough prop for my airplane. I say that because at 5,000 I can over speed the engine when at WOT. So pulling the prop back to 3300 gives me about 183 to 185 mph true. Some other rpm numbers to compare at 5000: 2650 gives 136 to 137, 2850 gives 150 to 151, and 3050 gives about 170. I have been recently doing some new prop test with a 62FK60. With this prop at 5,000 density altitude, WOT only allows my engine to turn up 3200 rpm but that speed is 184 to 185. 2650 gives 145, 2850 gives 160, and 3050 gives 175. Again, all numbers are at 5,000' density altitude and are in miles per hour true airspeed. The down side to this prop, if I keep it, is that I may need to change the jetting in the carb as the engine burns more fuel with it. The fuel differences are not very large at the lower rpm but steadily increase as rpm goes up such that at above 2950 to 3000 it is about a gallon more and continues increasing.as you get closer to WOT. One other thing to remember, the above performance numbers are with my highly modified Esqual with lots of clean up mods. Your Lightning, if built light and straight with good clean up mods, should actually do slightly better, as the prototype Lightning is about 2 to 3 mph faster than 31BZ when Nick an I fly them in close formation with the same props and same rpm. But as they say, your mileage may vary. Hope this helps. Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:57 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight Hello Doug No, the hose I use is 1" ID rubber fuel hose. The same hose used at gas stations. As I noted before, the filter is a canister type fuel filter. Looks like a large oil filter. It may also interest you to know that I installed a ground wire to be used when fueling. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Kayberg@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight In a message dated 3/1/2009 9:03:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: Now, it is important to note that I carry a 55 gallon plastic barrel in the back of my truck for fuel. I installed a hand crank pump and 30' fuel hose with a really good filter attached. The filter is a canister type that separates water if there is any. I hope it is the METAL canister type. A resident of Green Landings had a clear plastic filter on his fuel hose that had a replaceable element. Tho it had given some years of service, when ethanol came along with the Amoco fuel, the plastic got soft and then cracked open. Since it was hooked to an electrically driven pump, there was a period of drama with gasoline being sprayed about the hangar. My opinion is that careful thought and observation should be given to the components of a fuel system these days, particularly since ethanol can bring a variety of problems. I think hoses, filters and the fuel itself should be carefully inspected frequently. Doug Koenigsberg http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:01 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Hello Jim On several occasions while flying, I've noted IAS as compared to GPS ground speed during conditions of little or no wind. The numbers are very close. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Gary, you made me thing of a question with your last post. How do you guys calibrate, or verify the indicated airspeed of your instruments, be it a steam gage or your EFIS. Flying along with another airplane that has a known correct reading? Using a GPS and flying a course, (ugg.) Jim! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:14 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Thanks Gary: I know my IAS is reading off a little on my steam gauge. I just wanted to figure out how much. If I get it reading correctly, I can adjust my EIFS easily to match it. All good information. Especially the beer bong. Jim! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Hello Jim On several occasions while flying, I've noted IAS as compared to GPS ground speed during conditions of little or no wind. The numbers are very close. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Determining IAS Gary, you made me thing of a question with your last post. How do you guys calibrate, or verify the indicated airspeed of your instruments, be it a steam gage or your EFIS. Flying along with another airplane that has a known correct reading? Using a GPS and flying a course, (ugg.) Jim! title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:38 PM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! Gary Your Numbers are right on. Buz has a Different engine that produces mor e power and a different wing. Wayne -- "GARY PENNINGTON" wrote: Hello Buz Thanks for the response. I also have the Grand Rapids EFIS. One thing I've noticed though is that the OAT reading is never the same as the reported field temp. I spoke to GRT about it after finishing the plane. They said it was a bad sensor so they sent another. It reads the same. I installed the first sensor in the fresh air intake. The second o ne I installed inside the gear leg fairing to avoid temp fluctuations du e to engine heat. No change. Anyway, higher altitude makes little diffe rence in the IAS and TAS as indicated by the EFIS at 2850 rpm. As I note d, the steam gauge ASI reads identical to the EFIS for IAS With the pro p that Nick sent, my engine will turn max +/- 3000-3100 rpm. It is my un derstanding that the max continuous rpm is 2850. Due you commonly run hi gher and if so, isn't that hard on the engine? I don't know what else to say. At between 6000'-9000' and 2850 rpm, IAS is approx. 134 mph and TA S is about 144 mph....according to the gauges. Thanks again.Gary----- Or iginal Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics .com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:52 PMSubject: Re: Lightning-List: Ha vasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 2/28/2009 7:29:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, penning ton@q.com writes:I have read reports from other builders that they achie ve 170 mph from their planes. I don't know how they managed it. I wish I knew. Maybe it is at full throttle.)Gary, The 170 TAS that I often g et on a long cross country is certainly not at full throttle. I am norm ally up at 10,000' or sometimes even higher, depending on winds and weat her. The cross county technique that I use is to set the fuel flow that I want and then accept the rpm and the true airspeed that it gives me. After my level off, I normally set 6 gallons per hour and, with the pro p I have been using - a 64ZK55, that will usually give the something aro und 165 to 172 mph true airspeed when at altitudes of 10 to 12 thousand feet. Of course rpm varies a little but is normally around 3050 to 3100 . Note my CHTs, EGTs and oil temps are all well within the green at thi s setting. In fact, all are green right on up through WOT. Now a f ew other thoughts. As far as comparing airspeeds with various props, rp m, fuel flows, etc. It is always better to have at least one common poi nt. Nick and I most always use 5,000' when doing speed comparisons. Th e main reason for picking 5,000' is that you normally have smooth air wh en that high (even in the summer) and of course you want smooth air so you can trim the airplane up and let the engine run for a while at whate ver rpm you are using so things settle down. (I often use auto pilot wit h altitude hold on.) Another thing we normally do is to use 5,000 densi ty altitude (as either determined by your EFIS or by you if you know OAT and pressure altitude). Of course, most of us have the Grand Rapids EF IS so we always know the exact density altitude, and by always using the same density altitude for the speed runs you always have good numbers t hat are already compensated for when you make runs on different days, ev en summer to winter. Now having said that, the 64ZK55 that I have u sed for about two years is really not enough prop for my airplane. I sa y that because at 5,000 I can over speed the engine when at WOT. So pul ling the prop back to 3300 gives me about 183 to 185 mph true. Some oth er rpm numbers to compare at 5000: 2650 gives 136 to 137, 2850 gives 15 0 to 151, and 3050 gives about 170. I have been recently doing some new prop test with a 62FK60. With this prop at 5,000 density altitude, WOT only allows my engine to turn up 3200 rpm but that speed is 184 to 185. 2650 gives 145, 2850 gives 160, and 3050 gives 175. Again, all nu mbers are at 5,000' density altitude and are in miles per hour true airs peed. The down side to this prop, if I keep it, is that I may need to c hange the jetting in the carb as the engine burns more fuel with it. Th e fuel differences are not very large at the lower rpm but steadily incr ease as rpm goes up such that at above 2950 to 3000 it is about a gallon more and continues increasing.as you get closer to WOT. One other thing to remember, the above performance numbers are with my highly modi fied Esqual with lots of clean up mods. Your Lightning, if built light and straight with good clean up mods, should actually do slightly better , as the prototype Lightning is about 2 to 3 mph faster than 31BZ when N ick an I fly them in close formation with the same props and same rpm. But as they say, your mileage may vary.Hope this helps.Buz Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighbor hood today. title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List hr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =================== ____________________________________________________________ Digital Photography - Click Now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmShmryss0BKbgaf3ed2 6G3vpgC27YkL3TW1nyWjejo6NxHCpP6/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:11 PM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight Gary, I was also speaking of the 1" fuel hose that was hooked to the sediment bowl/filter. The filter attached to the pump. The filter/bowl is about the size of a liter jar. The pump is the type used on larger agricultural fuel tanks. I dont know if he uses a ground wire, but he should. It wont take much friction of a cloth on the wing to build up a static charge. That is a good point. Doug In a message dated 3/2/2009 4:04:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pennington@q.com writes: Hello Doug No, the hose I use is 1" ID rubber fuel hose. The same hose used at gas stations. As I noted before, the filter is a canister type fuel filter. Looks like a large oil filter. It may also interest you to know that I installed a ground wire to be used when fueling. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: _Kayberg@aol.com_ (mailto:Kayberg@aol.com) Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight In a message dated 3/1/2009 9:03:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _pennington@q.com_ (mailto:pennington@q.com) writes: Now, it is important to note that I carry a 55 gallon plastic barrel in the back of my truck for fuel. I installed a hand crank pump and 30' fuel hose with a really good filter attached. The filter is a canister type that separates water if there is any. I hope it is the METAL canister type. A resident of Green Landings had a clear plastic filter on his fuel hose that had a replaceable element. Tho it had given some years of service, when ethanol came along with the Amoco fuel, the plastic got soft and then cracked open. Since it was hooked to an electrically driven pump, there was a period of drama with gasoline being sprayed about the hangar. My opinion is that careful thought and observation should be given to the components of a fuel system these days, particularly since ethanol can bring a variety of problems. I think hoses, filters and the fuel itself should be carefully inspected frequently. Doug Koenigsberg title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightni ng-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:35 PM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lake Havasu Flight Gary Where do you buy Mogas with out Alcohol? In Maricopa county we have alc ohol in all gas. Wayne -- "GARY PENNINGTON" wrote: Hello Doug No, the hose I use is 1" ID rubber fuel hose. The same hose used at gas stations. As I noted before, the filter is a canister type fuel filter. Looks like a large oil filter. It may also interest you to know that I installed a ground wire to be used when fueling. Gary----- O riginal Message ----- From: Kayberg@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics .com Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:13 AMSubject: Re: Lightning-List: La ke Havasu Flight In a message dated 3/1/2009 9:03:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, penningt on@q.com writes:Now, it is important to note that I carry a 55 gallon pl astic barrel in the back of my truck for fuel. I installed a hand crank pump and 30' fuel hose with a really good filter attached. The filter is a canister type that separates water if there is any.I hope it is the M ETAL canister type. A resident of Green Landings had a clear plastic fil ter on his fuel hose that had a replaceable element. Tho it had given some years of service, when ethanol came along with the Amoco fuel, the plastic got soft and then cracked open. Since it was hooked to an elect rically driven pump, there was a period of drama with gasoline being sp rayed about the hangar. My opinion is that careful thought and observati on should be given to the components of a fuel system these days, partic ularly since ethanol can bring a variety of problems. I think hoses, filters and the fuel itself should be carefully inspected frequently. Doug Koenigsbergtitle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Lis t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.co m">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribut ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ====================== ____________________________________________________________ Start a Web Site! Hosting for only $3.95/mo. Free setup! http://offers.juno.com/TGL1141/?u=http://www.freeservers.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:48 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 3/2/2009 7:19:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waynelenox@juno.com writes: Buz has a Different engine that produces more power and a different wing. Good point, Wayne, I do have one of the old solid lifter engines. However, remember the latest hydraulic lifter engines have the new cam profile that should get the power/rpms back. Also, I think the Lightning wing with the extended tips is a slightly faster wing than I am using. Buz **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:10 PM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! Buz I do not see the speeds you have. I think Gary and My Lightning will fl y side by side in Cruse. Wayne -- N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/2/2009 7:19:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waynelen ox@juno.com writes:Buz has a Different engine that produces more power a nd a different wing.Good point, Wayne, I do have one of the old solid li fter engines. However, remember the latest hydraulic lifter engines hav e the new cam profile that should get the power/rpms back. Also, I thin k the Lightning wing with the extended tips is a slightly faster wing th an I am using. Buz ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== === ____________________________________________________________ Be there without being there. Click now for great video conferencing sol utions! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTECasiflWIiBvyXb3MBhIP qKKhTxNwU5CDPWGoArT28So6vHF4otK/ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:49 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 3/2/2009 8:49:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waynelenox@juno.com writes: I do not see the speeds you have. **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:40 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 3/2/2009 8:49:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waynelenox@juno.com writes: I do not see the speeds you have. These latest speeds are with the 62FK60 prop and more than likely you have a 63FK58 prop. Buz **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:27 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Havasu..Maybe this one's for you, Gary! In a message dated 3/2/2009 10:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: more than likely you have a 63FK58 prop. Typo - meant to type 62FK58. A 62 diameter, not 63. Buz **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:42 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lake Havasu Flight From: "JetPilot" Wayne Lenox wrote: > > Gary > Where do you buy Mogas with out Alcohol? In Maricopa county we have alcohol in all gas. > Wayne > > - Are you SURE ???? Just because the pump is labeled for Ethanol, it does not mean its in there. The wording is that it MAY contain ethanol. Make a test jar, very cheap and easy, and start testing different brands. Even though all pumps here are also labeled with the ethanol sticker, I have been using BP Premium in my Rotax 912-S and it has never tested positive for ethanol yet. Most of the bigger brands have ethanol in their gas, but the rumor is that some of the brands that are not " Top Tier " don't have to put it in. Test away !!! Good Luck, Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232888#232888 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.