---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/23/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:03 AM - Re: more prop test info (GARY PENNINGTON) 2. 05:29 AM - Re: more prop test info (N1BZRich@aol.com) 3. 12:53 PM - Re: To Nick /// We never received any plans (Charles Dewey) 4. 01:19 PM - Re: To Nick /// We never received any plans (flylightning) 5. 03:21 PM - Re: more prop test info (GARY PENNINGTON) 6. 04:16 PM - Re: more prop test info / Buz's toys (Charles Dewey) 7. 05:03 PM - Re: more prop test info (selwyn) 8. 05:32 PM - Re: more prop test info / Buz's toys (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 9. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: more prop test info (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:39 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info Good morning Buz What rpm's were you turning at those TAS? Thanks for the info. Happy days. Gary Pennington ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:48 PM Subject: Lightning-List: more prop test info All, Some time ago I sent out a report on the results of the prop testing I have been doing on N31BZ with the Sensenich 62FK60. (remember BZ has the older solid lifter engine) Those emails listed the true airspeeds vs. RPMs that I was seeing. As a follow up to that message I have been doing some additional testing the last several days to come up with some fuel flow numbers with the new prop. Most of you that have been on the list for a while know that my cross country technique is to set a fuel flow (not an rpm) and accept the airspeed and rpm that the fuel flow gives me at the altitude I am using for the trip. Since I am planning another trip to SYI early this coming week, I figured I had better get at least some "ball park" fuel usage numbers before I make this next trip. On cross country flights I normally cruise at an altitude that does two things for me - I am looking for lowest headwinds and smooth flight conditions. If there is a tail wind, I go up high to take advantage of that, often cruising as high as 14,500 when west bound (yes, I have a small O2 bottle). Normally, I seem to end up in the altitude band between say 6 to 12 thousand feet, so that is where I have been doing most of the testing the last few days. Oh, one other thing, the OATs have been running slightly cooler than a standard day. For example density altitude has been about 300 below indicated altitude. Below are the results I have seen during recent flights over the last few days: -Since I normally set 6 gph I did a lot of those test. As it turns out, 6 gph seems to give me in the neighborhood of 162 to 165 mph true airspeed (weight makes a difference). I should also note that I tried to do most of the test when I had the tanks full (except for that burned during climb out) but with only me and approx 30 pounds in the baggage area (31BZ is probably around a 1200 lb airplane with that load). -However, I noticed something interesting (with the prop and set up I am now using) when I pulled the fuel flow back below 6 gph. It appears that: 5.5 gph gives 155 mph, 5.0 gph = 150, 4.5 gph = 145, 4.0 gph = 140, and 3.5 gph was right at 135 mph. I saw no reason to go slower than that. If these numbers prove fairly accurate during actual cross country flights, that works out to over a 1000 mile range flying at 135 mph tas - but who wants to go that slow. I just thought the kind of linear relationship of FF to MPH was interesting. Of course, the time spend at the various fuel flows was just long enough to let the mph settle down and things could be different when I actually make the trip to SYI (probably this Tuesday). Anyway, as normal, I will provide the data for that flight after I get there and find the time to figure it all out more accurately. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:29 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info Sorry, Gary, I didn't record that data as I had sent that out before and also I don't fly cross country using the RPM technique. I just set the fuel flow I want in the cruise portion of the flight and accept whatever speed and RPM that gives me. By doing that I always know how much fuel I will arrive with (with the current winds) and can adjust the arrival fuel by playing with the throttle. But as I recall, 6 GPH is about 2880 and 162 MPH TAS, and 2750 is about 150. When I get the time I can look it up and send it to you, but busy day today. Besides getting ready to go to SYI tomorrow, I am briefing a kinder garden and local school at the airport, and hopefully getting some interest in aviation for the future. The kids really enjoy the pedal planes I have built and also sitting in the Esqual for photos. I take one of my old Air Force helmets for them to wear when sitting in the pedal P-51 and leather helmet and goggles for the pedal Pitts. The teachers, kids and Moms love it and it is good publicity for the local airport. Blue Skies, Buz **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:01 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: To Nick /// We never received any plans Nick, Austin at Royal in Hagerstown never received the plans you said you were going to prepare and send him for the installation of the trim tab modifications. I am scheduled to start the repair tomorrow, and need the plans sent to him. Thank you. Charles Dewey --- On Mon, 3/23/09, N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: > From: N1BZRich@aol.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 8:28 AM > > > > > > > Sorry, Gary, I didn't record that data as I had > sent that out before and > also I don't fly cross country using theRPM > technique. I just set > the fuel flow I want in the cruise portion of the flight > and accept whatever > speed and RPM that gives me. By doing that I always > know how much fuel I > will arrive with (with the current winds) and can > adjust the arrival fuel > by playing with the throttle. But as I recall, 6 GPH > is about 2880 and 162 > MPH TAS, and 2750 is about 150. When I get the time I > can look it up > and send it to you, but busy day today. Besides > getting ready to go to SYI > tomorrow, I am briefing a kinder garden and local school at > the airport, and > hopefully getting some interest in aviation for the > future. The kids > reallyenjoy the pedal planes I have built and also > sitting in the Esqual > for photos. I take one of my old Air Force helmets > for them to wear when > sitting in the pedal P-51 and leather helmet and goggles > for the pedal > Pitts. The teachers, kids and Moms love it and it is > good publicity for > the local airport. > Blue Skies, > Buz > Feeling the pinch at the grocery > store? Make > dinner for $10 or less. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:47 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: To Nick /// We never received any plans They will be there. nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Dewey Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: To Nick /// We never received any plans Nick, Austin at Royal in Hagerstown never received the plans you said you were going to prepare and send him for the installation of the trim tab modifications. I am scheduled to start the repair tomorrow, and need the plans sent to him. Thank you. Charles Dewey --- On Mon, 3/23/09, N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: > From: N1BZRich@aol.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 8:28 AM > > > > > > > Sorry, Gary, I didn't record that data as I had > sent that out before and > also I don't fly cross country using theRPM > technique. I just set > the fuel flow I want in the cruise portion of the flight > and accept whatever > speed and RPM that gives me. By doing that I always > know how much fuel I > will arrive with (with the current winds) and can > adjust the arrival fuel > by playing with the throttle. But as I recall, 6 GPH > is about 2880 and 162 > MPH TAS, and 2750 is about 150. When I get the time I > can look it up > and send it to you, but busy day today. Besides > getting ready to go to SYI > tomorrow, I am briefing a kinder garden and local school at > the airport, and > hopefully getting some interest in aviation for the > future. The kids > reallyenjoy the pedal planes I have built and also > sitting in the Esqual > for photos. I take one of my old Air Force helmets > for them to wear when > sitting in the pedal P-51 and leather helmet and goggles > for the pedal > Pitts. The teachers, kids and Moms love it and it is > good publicity for > the local airport. > Blue Skies, > Buz > Feeling the pinch at the grocery > store? Make > dinner for $10 or less. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:15 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info Thank you Buz. Very cool with the kids. Have a great flight. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info Sorry, Gary, I didn't record that data as I had sent that out before and also I don't fly cross country using the RPM technique. I just set the fuel flow I want in the cruise portion of the flight and accept whatever speed and RPM that gives me. By doing that I always know how much fuel I will arrive with (with the current winds) and can adjust the arrival fuel by playing with the throttle. But as I recall, 6 GPH is about 2880 and 162 MPH TAS, and 2750 is about 150. When I get the time I can look it up and send it to you, but busy day today. Besides getting ready to go to SYI tomorrow, I am briefing a kinder garden and local school at the airport, and hopefully getting some interest in aviation for the future. The kids really enjoy the pedal planes I have built and also sitting in the Esqual for photos. I take one of my old Air Force helmets for them to wear when sitting in the pedal P-51 and leather helmet and goggles for the pedal Pitts. The teachers, kids and Moms love it and it is good publicity for the local airport. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:57 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info / Buz's toys Buz, I got an F-16 Fighter Jet kids electric airplane at Salvaaion Army. I was amazed when i found it because I had never seen one. It is like the mini Cadillac Escalade but 3 wheels and fighter plane. The wings fold up and down with an electric switch. I donated it to the guys working on my plane up at Royal Aviation in Hagerstown. The hangar cat sleeps in it. Maybe I can get some pics of it for the newsletter. Charles --- On Mon, 3/23/09, GARY PENNINGTON wrote: > From: GARY PENNINGTON > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 6:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Buz. Very cool with the kids. > > Have a great flight. > Gary > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: N1BZRich@aol.com > > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > > > Sent: Monday, March > 23, 2009 5:28 > AM > Subject: Re: > Lightning-List: more prop > test info > > > Sorry, Gary, I didn't record that data as I had > sent that out before and > also I don't fly cross country using theRPM > technique. I just set > the fuel flow I want in the cruise portion of the flight > and accept whatever > speed and RPM that gives me. By doing that I always > know how much fuel I > will arrive with (with the current winds) and can > adjust the arrival > fuel by playing with the throttle. But as I recall, > 6 GPH is about 2880 > and 162 MPH TAS, and 2750 is about 150. When I get > the time I can > look it up and send it to you, but busy day > today. Besides getting > ready to go to SYI tomorrow, I am briefing a kinder > garden and local school at > the airport, and hopefully getting some interest in > aviation for the > future. The kids reallyenjoy the pedal planes > I have built and > also sitting in the Esqual for photos. I take one > of my old Air Force > helmets for them to wear when sitting in the pedal P-51 > and leather helmet and > goggles for the pedal Pitts. The teachers, kids and > Moms love it and it > is good publicity for the local airport. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > > > Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make > dinner > for $10 or less. > > > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:23 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: more prop test info From: "selwyn" Hi Buz, I'd really like to see these numbers with RPM and manifold pressure information. With the Bing the only control you have over mixture is via the airflow through the carby, set by the revs, so those numbers help to understand what regieme the engine is operating in. The manifold pressures help to understand this a little more. To my mind, the fuel flow figures in isolation are very little help in understanding what is going on in the engine and one needs an appreciation of that to make valid propeller comparisons. Cheers, Selwyn -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235877#235877 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:12 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: more prop test info / Buz's toys In a message dated 3/23/2009 7:17:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdewey6969@yahoo.com writes: F-16 Fighter Jet kids electric airplane. Maybe I can get some pics of it for the newsletter. Charles, that would be great. I had several newsletter comments saying there was no such thing as too many airplane photos in the newsletter. I forgot to take photos of the kids this morning, but a local photographer was there and I am sure she will send me some since I always take her up in the Cub when she needs aerial shots. Buz **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:08 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: more prop test info In a message dated 3/23/2009 8:05:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes: I'd really like to see these numbers with RPM and manifold pressure information. OK, Selwyn, I do have manifold pressure (MP), so can eventually get that for you. Currently I don't pay that much attention to MP (fixed pitch prop) and I got it installed too late to be much help during the initial 40 hour test phase. I ordered the MP set up early on, but there was a delay in getting it to me. I wanted to use it to help with the % horse power charts, but I was about done with the phase one testing before I got it installed. I guess I just have been too busy to do much with it since then. But as I said, I will get some info for you if you promise to write something up about it and the Bing adjustments for the newsletter. Just keep bugging me about it until I get it done. Buz **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. 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