---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/09/09: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - FAA Builder Assist Crackdown? AC20-27G, Order8130-2F,Chg4 (DragginWetTail) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:43 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: FAA Builder Assist Crackdown? AC20-27G, Order8130-2F,Chg4 From: "DragginWetTail" Sounds like the outspoken but informative guy pequeajim and other thin skins dumped on as a "troll" was right and must have been living under an OK City bridge part of the time this summer. I just got an EAA e-Bulletin that tried to put a happy spin on kitbuilding surviving this and last month's new rules, but my first look at this AC and policy says it was a narrow escape and FAA clearly WAS fed up with builder assist excess. My first impression is no employee of a builder assist center can touch any actual part of the airplane being assembled, just demo how to assemble it. Like the "troll" said, $3,500 a week sounds a little steep for part-time ground school. On the new 2009 version of Form 8130-12, right after the big open space where FAA wants any commercial assistance confessed, they place a bold print warning from USC 18-1001 threatening 5 years bunking with Bernie Madoff for anyone who falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, device, or false entry details of using commercial assistance. 8 years if terrorism is involved so what IS the wing station max bomb load of the Lightning? Less dramatic but also alarming for those who did not heed the troll's warning, a flow chart in the new AC says that if a nonapproved kit (means not on the existing 51% list which I guess Lightning was not) was purchased prior to October 1, 2009, it is grandfathered and can be completed under the "easier" old regs UNLESS commercial assistance was used, in which case the new regs and penalties will apply. Nostradamus Troll was wrong about one thing he or she objected to (still 99% right though). Apparently paint, upholstery, and avionics can still be provided/installed by a manufacturer without risking revocation of the aircraft's amateur experimental certificate and thus grounding it forever (sure ain't eligible under traditional Part 23 manufactured aircraft regs). . I have never built a kit (after owning hulled and float amphibs, looking for a nice LSA taildragger now and loved the lines of Lightning which may grow a little wheel back there someday or perhaps I could modify) and most you guys know way more about this experimental and amateur stuff than I do. But the language in these sections of this policy sounds a lot like the kind of stuff I have read being added over the past thirty years clearly written to establish a violation of federal law if you screw with it. Were these requirements already in the regs to this degree? Section 9 - 147 b. Statement of Eligibility. The applicant must submit a NOTARIZED Form 8130-12, Eligibility Statement, Amateur-Built Aircraft (refer to figure 4-14), certifying the major portion was fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes. (1) The form specifies that an amateur builder identify if commercial assistance was used in the construction of the aircraft and identify the source of the assistance. (2) Evidence and records must be available to support these statements and provided to the FAA upon request. (3) Records that are typically requested are listed in paragraph 151e. c. Additional Information and Demonstrating Level of Knowledge. To determine level of knowledge, the FAA may ask the applicant to provide information during the airworthiness inspection. For example, the FAA could ask the applicant to describe a particular construction task or technique used to fabricate the aircraft or provide information as to the type of materials. These discussions enable the FAA to evaluate the involvement of the applicant in the construction of the aircraft. 148 b. Providing Commercial and/or Educational Assistance. Amateur builders may contract for commercial assistance, but should notify the FAA if they intend to use commercial assistance. Amateur builders may also receive commercial educational assistance in the fabrication or assembly of specific parts, and the completion of tasks or processes involved in the construction of an aircraft. In some cases, this commercial assistance may be provided by kit manufacturers. The FAA may credit commercial assistance provided for educational purposes toward the major portion determination. However, this educational assistance cannot exceed a demonstration on how to perform the task. (1) - (2) - (3) The FAA may request to observe fabrication and assembly activities at any commercial assistance facility to determine whether the project can meet the major portion requirement of 21.191(g). -------------------- This last part sounds a lot like unannounced and perhaps even incognito inspections are coming. Well, anyway, at least Arion has new guidance to professionally (unlike me) evaluate now and either get cracking on the checklists and certs for that long-awaited Lightning 51% kit approval or just focus on your S/ELSA which I will likely buy into sometime in 2011. Keep up the good work... but watch your P's and Q's. -------- Flight IS Freedom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267189#267189 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.