Lightning-List Digest Archive

Thu 11/12/09


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Modified long wing tips (Kayberg@aol.com)
     2. 05:29 PM - Re: Modified long wing tips (Bill Strahan)
     3. 05:54 PM - Uneven EGTs at full throttle (Bill Strahan)
     4. 06:16 PM - Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle (Catalpa Aviation)
     5. 07:16 PM - Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS)
     6. 08:44 PM - Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle (Bill Strahan)
     7. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle (Catalpa Aviation)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:05:34 PM PST US
    From: Kayberg@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Modified long wing tips
    In a message dated 11/12/2009 12:23:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, bill@gdsx.com writes: I sent an email to them, but have not heard back. I can see many ways of doing it, just would like to see some pictures of the process if possible. I'm sure Green Landings is proud of their process, but I wouldn't think this is an element of intellectual property that really would make the decision on which center you would choose. When I do it I'll share some pictures. Unless I butcher it. Then I'll just ask for sympathy. :) Bill I talked to Ryan today and he is looking for pictures of how he does the wingtips. Not sure he has any. If he does he plans to post them. It is not about intellectual property as much as trying to offer perks to those who pay for a facility and advice. Build centers need income to stay in business and many of the techniques come at a price. Someone has to put in the hours at some expense to perfect the ways to do things. The folks at Shelbyville profit from selling kits, so it is in their best interest to make the kits as easy to build as possible. So they spend the money on developing a manual and their techniques. Green Landings only gets a slice of their pie when it comes to kit sales and needs to make additional money somehow. Individual builders are doing it for fun. Easy for them to share. But when you feed your kids by selling airplane kits, trying to be the best build center and offering the best of design improvements; it is a little tougher to give away your ideas. Doug


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:29:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Modified long wing tips
    From: "Bill Strahan" <bill@gdsx.com>
    "...a little tougher to give away your ideas." Doug, sounds like intellectual property to me. :) I wasn't trying to be negative by characterizing it that way. If someone came calling asking me how I did specific things in my software business, in particular things that differentiate us within our industry, I would not be willing to share that. I would be giving away IP at that point. I was simply thinking that this particular modification didn't strike me as particularly valuable across the market of potential builders, and a great deal of the value is in the work itself, not the knowledge of how to do it. Perhaps I'm wrong. If so, it won't be a hallmark moment, it's happened before. It's certainly Ryan's choice as to what he shares. So, back to the topic at hand. At this point, I'm thinking I'll take the tips and cut them to the size I want for my plane. Then I'll split them along the leading edge so they can open up to take up some of the difference between the smaller airfoil that will exist at the point I cut them compared to end of the wing. Then I'll bond a 4 strip thick layer of fiberglass about 2" wide to the inside of the cut down tip to create the flange that will allow me to attach it to the end of the wing. I'll attach it in place with screws, and have a big gap in the front that I will fill with a block of easily sandable foam. I'll wrap the end of the wing with some old .016 aluminum I have laying around to protect it, and then sand the leading edge to shape. Remove all of that from the wing, sand the foam down about a 1/16 and then 3 layers of glass over that. Sand. Fill. Sand. Fill...etc. If that description makes sense, any feedback on it? Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272538#272538


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:54:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Uneven EGTs at full throttle
    From: "Bill Strahan" <bill@gdsx.com>
    Anyone else experiencing very different EGTs at full throttle? I will see one set of cylinders running 1300-1390 and the other side 980-1050. 2,4,6 are the cold ones. 1,3,5 are the hot ones. As soon as I throttle back, the EGT drops on the hot side and comes up on the cold side until they're all within about 30 degrees. This occurs at all altitudes, and is particularly troublesome because I can't run full throttle at altitude. At 12,500 the hot side is hot as ever, but the cold side is all in the 900s and the engine is pretty rough. Worst I've seen is just over 1400 on #5 while running 950 on #4. In that situation, as soon as I pulled the throttle back to about 5 gph #5 dropped to 1370 and #4 came up to 1360! While it's fun to put along at 4 gph at 12,500 doing close to 140 mph, I'd much rather be able to run it a bit harder...and when I grab the O2 bottle and head the higher altitudes this will become more important. Anyone else experienced this and fixed it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272541#272541


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:16:10 PM PST US
    From: "Catalpa Aviation" <catalpaaviation@wideband.net.au>
    Subject: Uneven EGTs at full throttle
    Check the inlet manifolds for air leak around the area where the inlets exit the mix box and that the black joining hose is centre and clamped. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Strahan Sent: Friday, 13 November 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Uneven EGTs at full throttle Anyone else experiencing very different EGTs at full throttle? I will see one set of cylinders running 1300-1390 and the other side 980-1050. 2,4,6 are the cold ones. 1,3,5 are the hot ones. As soon as I throttle back, the EGT drops on the hot side and comes up on the cold side until they're all within about 30 degrees. This occurs at all altitudes, and is particularly troublesome because I can't run full throttle at altitude. At 12,500 the hot side is hot as ever, but the cold side is all in the 900s and the engine is pretty rough. Worst I've seen is just over 1400 on #5 while running 950 on #4. In that situation, as soon as I pulled the throttle back to about 5 gph #5 dropped to 1370 and #4 came up to 1360! While it's fun to put along at 4 gph at 12,500 doing close to 140 mph, I'd much rather be able to run it a bit harder...and when I grab the O2 bottle and head the higher altitudes this will become more important. Anyone else experienced this and fixed it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272541#272541


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:16:25 PM PST US
    From: "JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" <lbmathias@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle
    Bill, I am having a similar experience; the left side (particularly 4 and 6) run in the 1100's during full throttle climb while the right side runs in the high 1300's and sometimes over 1400 during climb. When I reduce power in cruise, they get closer but generally run 100-150 degrees difference between the two sides. I tried an insert in the scat hose connected to the carb but it didn't change anything. I now have a couple fiberglas tubes to insert between scat and carb intake. Haven't been able to get them on yet but hope to soon to see if that makes a difference. I'll let you know how it turns out. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Strahan" <bill@gdsx.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:54 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Uneven EGTs at full throttle > > Anyone else experiencing very different EGTs at full throttle? I will see > one set of cylinders running 1300-1390 and the other side 980-1050. > > 2,4,6 are the cold ones. 1,3,5 are the hot ones. As soon as I throttle > back, the EGT drops on the hot side and comes up on the cold side until > they're all within about 30 degrees. > > This occurs at all altitudes, and is particularly troublesome because I > can't run full throttle at altitude. At 12,500 the hot side is hot as > ever, but the cold side is all in the 900s and the engine is pretty rough. > Worst I've seen is just over 1400 on #5 while running 950 on #4. In that > situation, as soon as I pulled the throttle back to about 5 gph #5 dropped > to 1370 and #4 came up to 1360! > > While it's fun to put along at 4 gph at 12,500 doing close to 140 mph, I'd > much rather be able to run it a bit harder...and when I grab the O2 bottle > and head the higher altitudes this will become more important. > > Anyone else experienced this and fixed it? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272541#272541 > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:44:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle
    From: "Bill Strahan" <bill@gdsx.com>
    catalpaaviation(at)wideba wrote: > Check the inlet manifolds for air leak around the area where the inlets exit > the mix box and that the black joining hose is centre and clamped. > > Anthony > > -- Not sure how I'd check for this. Also, does it make sense that this only happens at full throttle? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272558#272558


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:46:38 PM PST US
    From: "Catalpa Aviation" <catalpaaviation@wideband.net.au>
    Subject: Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle
    Hullo Bill, To check inlets (by the way this happened to me) take off rubber joiners on inlets and then try and shift the tube by hand to the intake distributor, if it moves most likely it is leaking. The tubes have a rubber "O" ring but sometimes it leaks, they don't always seal, I took the tubes out and cleaned etc and replaced them using heat resistant silicon, that worked, the one cylinder that was lean then was the same as the rest. The other thing you could try is to check that the inlets where they bolt to the head have gaskets and they are working. I have heard that the bolts sometimes are too long and bottom out before the inlet (or exhaust) pipes are tight. Check bolt length by removing one bolt and measuring hole depth. Yes it would make sense that at full throttle it would run lean as the engine is working harder. The only other thing is, is the air that flows around the cylinders inhibited in any way as it exits, in other words have you placed a cover around the fuel pump? If so remove it. Best of luck Anthony -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Strahan Sent: Friday, 13 November 2009 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Uneven EGTs at full throttle catalpaaviation(at)wideba wrote: > Check the inlet manifolds for air leak around the area where the inlets exit > the mix box and that the black joining hose is centre and clamped. > > Anthony > > -- Not sure how I'd check for this. Also, does it make sense that this only happens at full throttle? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272558#272558




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