---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/03/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:28 AM - Re: December News Letter. (flylightning) 2. 09:42 AM - 51% checklist (flylightning) 3. 10:03 AM - Re: 51% checklist (Steven Sundquist) 4. 10:07 AM - Re: 51% checklist (Mark Stauffer) 5. 02:30 PM - Re: December News Letter. (N1BZRich@aol.com) 6. 02:33 PM - Re: Media Star (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 7. 02:41 PM - Bailing out (Bill Strahan) 8. 02:48 PM - Re: December News Letter. (Maxim Voronin) 9. 03:43 PM - Computer update (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 10. 03:51 PM - Computer update (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 11. 05:44 PM - Re: Computer update (Maxim Voronin) 12. 06:49 PM - Re: December News Letter. (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 13. 06:49 PM - Re: Bailing out (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 14. 07:12 PM - Re: December News Letter. (Maxim Voronin) 15. 08:09 PM - Re: Bailing out (N1BZRich@aol.com) 16. 08:13 PM - Re: December News Letter. (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 17. 08:59 PM - Re: December News Letter. (Maxim Voronin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:31 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: December News Letter. Ok you get the list if you want it..I am taking names and checking them twice only those with the magic answer get the list! Nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. Hey Buz/Nick: I did read the newsletter this morning on Jim's site. I tried on the Lightning site, but could only get to the November's letter. I guess my computer does not update as often as it should. or maybe I should not visit the Lightning site as much? I appreciate all the info in the newsletter and apologize for not being able to get anything new going. (Maybe next month) (Gerd's kit made it home with the help of commercial freight and a big box) Lynn In a message dated 12/2/2009 1:11:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, info@flylightning.net writes: Anyone read the news Letter this Month? Hope you all read the article on the new 51% rule and how it will work with the Lightning Kit. I have scanned the 51% checklist that we filled out and it is available to anyone who wants it. The catch is I am only gonna give it up if you can tell me how Gerds kit got to germany. Better read up. Seriously we need some could feed back on the news letter to make it more informative to the builders and flyers out there of the Lightning. If there is something you really want to see added each month that we are not doing please suggest it. Builders out there send in your tech article's, I know for a fact from the phone calls that the manual isn't perfect and well neither am I so , I know there are things you guys have solved out there to make building easier. We can only make the news letter what you want it to be. Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft, LLC =================================== ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:13 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: Lightning-List: 51% checklist To group, Ok, I have gotten a fair share of emails you all new the question. So the answer is; Go to the section on the web site that contains the build manual. Below the build manual icon is now one for accessing the 51% checklist for the Lightning. Anyone with a lightning that is being built now and does not have an AWC will have to give a copy of this to the DAR. You must fill out your own but use this as a guide. Column A is a direct fill in to your own check list. B C & D will be filled out depending on what you have accomplished. If building at home yours should look like ours, if you have assistance than you may have to fill I some points in B. Hope this helps. If anyone has any questions email the list so I can answer the question for everyone. Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft, LLC ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: 51% checklist From: Steven Sundquist Showing my ignorance, what is an "AWC"? Steve Sundquist Kit #48 On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:41 AM, flylightning wrote: > To group, > > > Ok, I have gotten a fair share of emails you all new the question. So the > answer is; > > Go to the section on the web site that contains the build manual. > > Below the build manual icon is now one for accessing the 51% checklist for > the Lightning. > > Anyone with a lightning that is being built now and does not have an AWC > will have to give a copy of this to the DAR. > > You must fill out your own but use this as a guide. Column A is a direct > fill in to your own check list. B C & D will be filled out depending on what > you have accomplished. > > If building at home yours should look like ours, if you have assistance > than you may have to fill I some points in B. Hope this helps. > > If anyone has any questions email the list so I can answer the question for > everyone. > > > Nick Otterback > > Arion Aircraft, LLC > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:35 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: 51% checklist Airworthiness Certificate. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steven Sundquist Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: 51% checklist Showing my ignorance, what is an "AWC"? Steve Sundquist Kit #48 On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:41 AM, flylightning wrote: To group, Ok, I have gotten a fair share of emails you all new the question. So the answer is; Go to the section on the web site that contains the build manual. Below the build manual icon is now one for accessing the 51% checklist for the Lightning. Anyone with a lightning that is being built now and does not have an AWC will have to give a copy of this to the DAR. You must fill out your own but use this as a guide. Column A is a direct fill in to your own check list. B C & D will be filled out depending on what you have accomplished. If building at home yours should look like ours, if you have assistance than you may have to fill I some points in B. Hope this helps. If anyone has any questions email the list so I can answer the question for everyone. Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft, LLC "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:22 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. In a message dated 12/2/2009 5:21:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, IFLYSMODEL@aol.com writes: Hey Buz/Nick: I did read the newsletter this morning on Jim's site. I tried on the Lightning site, but could only get to the November's letter. I guess my computer does not update as often as it should. or maybe I should not visit the Lightning site as much? I appreciate all the info in the newsletter and apologize for not being able to get anything new going. (Maybe next month) (Gerd's kit made it home with the help of commercial freight and a big box) Lynn Lynn, I often have the same trouble with my computer. A while back someone mentioned some way to get the computer to update web sites (switches or buttons to push?) but I can't remember. Anyway, You have done a good job of sending info for past issues, so please keep it up. Send me an updated photo of your jet when you get the chance. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:17 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Media Star In a message dated 12/2/2009 5:21:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, n5pb@aol.com writes: Having been in the Air Force for 27 years, I've learned to "Tap Dance" quite a bit... Hi Bear, I figured you could "tap dance" so that is why I mentioned a "dancing bear". Keep up the good foot work, and when you get a chance, give up an update on how your flying is going. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:50 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Bailing out From: "Bill Strahan" My parachute should be delivered on Wednesday of next week. One of the things that I want to use it for is spin testing of my Lightning. For the record, I like spins. But, I have no experience spinning the Lightning and every time I've spun an airplane for the first time I've worn a chute. But having a chute is only useful if you have a safe way of exiting the airplane. In a 150 aerobat the doors can be ejected for egress. Every other plane I've spun had either a sliding canopy or an open cockpit. Anyway, I've been thinking about this issue in the Lightning. I've opened the canopy in flight, and have found that it takes quite a shove to get it to go very far at all. In fact, more shove than I'll apply unless it's an emergency because I am concerned I would do damage. I tend towards the belief that I would get out of the plane if I REALLY needed to. I've imagined laying on my back and trying to kick the canopy out, but that leads to images of the canopy cracking outwards, only to trap my foot in it. Now THAT would be a strange NTSB report. Any opinions on what the failure mode would be if I rolled onto my back and tried to kick the canopy out? (Please don't say my legs. I'm deadlifting 450 and squatting 350.) I've also considered removing the bolts that provide the hinge for the canopy and replacing them each with a pin welded to a steel cable that would pivot 90 degrees around a point aligned with the pin before exiting under the panel on the copilot side where both cables would attach to a handle. A hard yank on that handle should pull both pins out and I hope the front of the canopy would lift off and temporarily pivot around the canopy latch before departing the plane. I'd be ducking below the panel regardless at that point. If I take this route, I'll replace the bolts when I'm done with my sillyness. Any other thoughts from the Jet Jockeys out there? Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276056#276056 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. From: Maxim Voronin Pressing F5 usually works,and if that fails, I think it is Ctrl-F5 to refresh the website and associated cache Best regards, Max On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/2009 5:21:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > IFLYSMODEL@aol.com writes: > > Hey Buz/Nick: I did read the newsletter this morning on Jim's site. I tried > on the Lightning site, but could only get to the November's letter. I guess > my computer does not update as often as it should. or maybe I should not > visit the Lightning site as much? I appreciate all the info in the > newsletter and apologize for not being able to get anything new going. > (Maybe next month) (Gerd's kit made it home with the help of commercial > freight and a big box) > Lynn > > Lynn, > I often have the same trouble with my computer. A while back someone > mentioned some way to get the computer to update web sites (switches or > buttons to push?) but I can't remember. Anyway, You have done a good job of > sending info for past issues, so please keep it up. Send me an updated > photo of your jet when you get the chance. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:01 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Computer update Hey Max: Control F 5 did the job. Thanks for the info. Lynn >>Pressing F5 usually works,and if that fails, I think it is Ctrl-F5 to refresh the website and associated cache Best regards, Max << ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:19 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: Computer update Hey Max: Control F 5 did the job. Thanks for the info. Lynn >>Pressing F5 usually works,and if that fails, I think it is Ctrl-F5 to refresh the website and associated cache Best regards, Max << ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Computer update From: Maxim Voronin Welcome! Max On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:40 PM, wrote: > Hey Max: Control F 5 did the job. Thanks for the info. > Lynn > > >>Pressing F5 usually works,and if that fails, I think it is Ctrl-F5 to > refresh the website and associated cache > Best regards, > > Max > << > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:09 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:49:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, voroninmax@gmail.com writes: Pressing F5 usually works,and if that fails, I think it is Ctrl-F5 to refresh the website and associated cache Best regards, Max Bummer. Control F5 didn't work on my Dell. Any other ideas from you computer experts? Buz ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:23 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Bailing out In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:42:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill@gdsx.com writes: --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" My parachute should be delivered on Wednesday of next week. One of the things that I want to use it for is spin testing of my Lightning. For the record, I like spins. But, I have no experience spinning the Lightning and every time I've spun an airplane for the first time I've worn a chute. But having a chute is only useful if you have a safe way of exiting the airplane. In a 150 aerobat the doors can be ejected for egress. Every other plane I've spun had either a sliding canopy or an open cockpit. Anyway, I've been thinking about this issue in the Lightning. I've opened the canopy in flight, and have found that it takes quite a shove to get it to go very far at all. In fact, more shove than I'll apply unless it's an emergency because I am concerned I would do damage. I tend towards the belief that I would get out of the plane if I REALLY needed to. I've imagined laying on my back and trying to kick the canopy out, but that leads to images of the canopy cracking outwards, only to trap my foot in it. Now THAT would be a strange NTSB report. Any opinions on what the failure mode would be if I rolled onto my back and tried to kick the canopy out? (Please don't say my legs. I'm deadlifting 450 and squatting 350.) I've also considered removing the bolts that provide the hinge for the canopy and replacing them each with a pin welded to a steel cable that would pivot 90 degrees around a point aligned with the pin before exiting under the panel on the copilot side where both cables would attach to a handle. A hard yank on that handle should pull both pins out and I hope the front of the canopy would lift off and temporarily pivot around the canopy latch before departing the plane. I'd be ducking below the panel regardless at that point. If I take this route, I'll replace the bolts when I'm done with my sillyness. Any other thoughts from the Jet Jockeys out there? Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276056#276056 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. From: Maxim Voronin Try just the F5 while you are on the page. Should do the trick. Max PS Otherwise the fresh newsletter is here flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter 2-12.pdf - just copy and paste that into your browser address field PPS Thanks for a great read, Buz! On Dec 3, 2009 8:51 PM, wrote: In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:49:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, voroninmax@gmail.com writes: > > Pr... Bummer. Control F5 didn't work on my Dell. Any other ideas from you computer experts? Buz Please Support You... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:58 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Bailing out Bill, Last spring (late March and early April) I flew all the ASTM required flight test profiles (including all the spin test) to get the Lightning certified as a SLSA. The spin test flights were all flown in the prototype Lightning since it had a ballistic parachute installed. The other flights were flown in the silver demo Lightning. Nick and I had many long discussions about bailing out of the Lightning and ways to jettison the canopy. We basically decided that in an out of control situation, trying to force the canopy open and climbing out while the aircraft was spinning was not a real good option. (Flat spins can be amazingly fast) Nick even tried to get some explosive bolts so that we could jettison the canopy, but the regulations required to even buy the explosive bolts made that option unworkable in a reasonable time frame. So that is why I flew the spin test in the prototype. If things went wrong, I would use the whole aircraft ballistic chute. Didn't even wear the chute I owned for the Pitts, So your idea of having pins to pull that would allow you to get rid of the canopy might be a good option if you can work it out. We didn't really work on that option because of the ballistic chute option we had. Note: If you make this type of change to your Lightning, you will have to put it back into phase one testing and who knows how many hours your FAA rep might require. Up to this past March/April, this was the first time the long wing Lightning had been spun. Nick had previously spun the original short wing with no problems, but not the long wing. ASTM requirements were for the light sport compliant airplane to be spun at all CG ranges and all configurations. >From lots of previous flights in many different Lightnings with the long wing, I was not really concerned with possible spiral instability, but the requirement to spin at full flaps did concern me quite a bit since from lots of previous spin experience in the military and in numerous aerobatic aircraft, I knew that flaps would tend to make the spin go flat. One other thing - ASTM requirements were not for a fully developed spin - you could apply anti spin controls during the incipient phase of the developing spin, or to be more specific, the rules allowed me to apply anti spin controls at either 3 seconds of spin or 1 turn - whichever came first. And that is exactly what I did, particularly for the first spins at full aft CG and certainly with the flaps down. It recovered, but not at quickly as the normal clean spin situation. I have a copy of all the written flight test results somewhere on my computer and will look for the spin test flights and (with Nick's permission) will post a copy of the spin test on the list, or maybe in the newsletter. (What say you, Nick?) Basically, the clean spin characteristics were excellent for forward CGs and good for aft CGs and recovery was almost immediate as soon as I unloaded the airplane. Clean and aft CG were not quite as quick to stop, but not abnormal at all. Spins with flaps were much more a concern, but standard anti spin controls were effective, but took some time. Don't try spins with flaps. So if you are going to spin, AND I SEE NO REASON TO DO THAT - THE LIGHTNING FLIGHT MANUAL SAYS NO AEROBATICS AND NO INTENTIONAL SPINS, but if you really must (will your insurance be valid if you are doing something not approved in the POH?) only do so with no flaps deployed and a forward CG. Use idle power and normal pro spin controls. Once you get the break - unload and opposite rudder to stop the turn (normal anti spin controls). I started all my spin test at 8,000. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to at least hit the highlights of the story. I guess, my bottom line would be like I said above - I see no reason to spin an airplane that the flight manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) says is not aerobatic and no intentional spins. I have no idea how experienced you are in spins, but I have seen them go flat or even inverted when they should not have. There are just a lot of variables that you really can't always plan for. All airplanes are different, especially those built by individuals from a kit. What I saw the prototype do, might not be what you see your airplane do. Oh, another thing, have you jumped before or gone through that type of training? Can you find the D ring in an OH SHIT emergency? There really are a lot of things to think about before you make the final decision to do this. I don't want this to sound negative, but just want you to think about all the negative possibilities. Blue Skies, Buz In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:42:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill@gdsx.com writes: --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" . er to My parachute should be delivered on Wednesday of next week. One of the things that I want to use it for is spin testing of my Lightning. For the record, I like spins. But, I have no experience spinning the Lightning and every time I've spun an airplane for the first time I've worn a chute. But having a chute is only useful if you have a safe way of exiting the airplane. In a 150 aerobat the doors can be ejected for egress. Every other plane I've spun had either a sliding canopy or an open cockpit. Anyway, I've been thinking about this issue in the Lightning. I've opened the canopy in flight, and have found that it takes quite a shove to get it to go very far at all. In fact, more shove than I'll apply unless it's an emergency because I am concerned I would do damage. I tend towards the belief that I would get out of the plane if I REALLY needed to. I've imagined laying on my back and trying to kick the canopy out, but that leads to images of the canopy cracking outwards, only to trap my foot in it. Now THAT would be a strange NTSB report. Any opinions on what the failure mode would be if I rolled onto my back and tried to kick the canopy out? (Please don't say my legs. I'm deadlifting 450 and squatting 350.) I've also considered removing the bolts that provide the hinge for the canopy and replacing them each with a pin welded to a steel cable that would pivot 90 degrees around a point aligned with the pin before exiting under the panel on the copilot side where both cables would attach to a handle. A hard yank on that handle should pull both pins out and I hope the front of the canopy would lift off and temporarily pivot around the canopy latch before departing the plane. I'd be ducking below the panel regardless at that point. If I take this route, I'll replace the bolts when I'm done with my sillyness. Any other thoughts from the Jet Jockeys out there? Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276056#276056 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:07 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. Thanks, Max, I'll try that. I get the newsletter when I go to the Lightning site, but not when I go to Jim's site. Don't know what the difference is. On another subject, don't forget to send me everything you want in the Jan newsletter (like your last name). Believe it or not, since this is another holiday month, I have already started on the Jan issue. Blue Skies, Buz In a message dated 12/3/2009 10:13:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, voroninmax@gmail.com writes: Try just the F5 while you are on the page. Should do the trick. Max PS Otherwise the fresh newsletter is here _flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter_ (http://flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter) 2-12.pdf - just copy and paste that into your browser address field PPS Thanks for a great read, Buz! On Dec 3, 2009 8:51 PM, <_N1BZRich@aol.com_ (mailto:N1BZRich@aol.com) > wrote: In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:49:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _voroninmax@gmail.com_ (mailto:voroninmax@gmail.com) writes: > > Pr... Bummer. Control F5 didn't work on my Dell. Any other ideas from you computer experts? Buz (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: December News Letter. From: Maxim Voronin Will do, Buz. Few things fun to write about the Florida demo and all things planned (kit has been ordered, by the way, and I'm terrorizing Mark for all the good info to make sure that she makes it to the S-n-F), but I'd rather confirm some of the things first. For a teaser - picture of me playing around with the panel realestate, capitalizing on new Dynon Skyviews. Best regards, Max (Voronin that is) On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:12 PM, wrote: > Thanks, Max, I'll try that. I get the newsletter when I go to the > Lightning site, but not when I go to Jim's site. Don't know what the > difference is. > On another subject, don't forget to send me everything you want in the Jan > newsletter (like your last name). Believe it or not, since this is another > holiday month, I have already started on the Jan issue. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 10:13:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > voroninmax@gmail.com writes: > > Try just the F5 while you are on the page. Should do the trick. > > Max > PS Otherwise the fresh newsletter is here > flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter 2-12.pdf - just copy and paste that > into your browser address field > PPS Thanks for a great read, Buz! > > On Dec 3, 2009 8:51 PM, wrote: > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 5:49:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > voroninmax@gmail.com writes: > > Pr... > Bummer. Control F5 didn't work on my Dell. Any other ideas from you > computer experts? > Buz > > * > > =================================== > ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > > m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > > * > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.