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1. 06:21 AM - Re: Lightning Elevator flutter (robert keen)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: Lightning Elevator flutter (robert keen)
3. 07:29 AM - Latest newsletter (flylightning)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lightning Elevator flutter |
Yes I am sure you are correct I am currently removing gap seal and retaping
wing roots, I am sure it will fix the problem. This is the only change to
the aircraft from new.
Cheers Smokey
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
Smokey
I have an Esqual, installed gap seals, had stick "shimmy" thinking it to be
"flutter". Removed gap seals and all is good, this was happening at 135 to
140.
My question, do you have gap seals on?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: robert keen <mailto:smokeysmail@bigpond.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
Nick,
I have experienced elevator flutter twice at around 140 knots indicated. I
was told by the Australian agent Dennis, that it would be a loose tape under
the wing.
I have not yet retaped the wing joint yet, but I would like the Mass Balance
figures so I can check the elevator myself.
Can you send me the info please? I will keep you posted on what I find.
Also do you have the mass balance figures for the ailerons?
Should the Lightning have bungie cords on the elevator pushrod to hold some
weight?
Thanks Smokey.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning
Sent: Thursday, 5 August 2010 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
No. Did you experience this or just simply asking?
The prototype was mass balanced at first but when looking at light sport and
saving weight we removed the balances and retested. There was no evidence of
flutter.
We dive test every LSA Lightning to Vne, 180knts IAS ( 208mph) with proper
attempts to induce flutter with no issues. It is required by the ASTM on
every aircraft.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert keen
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:06 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
Has anyone had a problem with elevator flutter? Can anyone tell me the mass
balance limits of the lightning control surfaces?
Thanks Smokey
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| Subject: | Lightning Elevator flutter |
All is in good condition and I think it is the gap seal on the elevator,
will know soon. When I experienced the flutter like symptoms it was not
possible to hold the elevator from moving up and down, it ceased as soon as
I slowed a few knots and It only lasted a couple of seconds as I was
increasing speed slowly at the time.
Cheers Smokey
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 9 August 2010 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
Hi Smokey,
I don't want to totally disagree with your flutter assessment, but I
kind of doubt that what you felt was true elevator flutter. Here is why -
Many other Lightning builders, during the 40 hour phase one test period,
have flown their Lightnings to Vne without any hint of flutter. And in the
case of the prototype, Nick and I have flown it to well beyond the published
Vne in several different stabilizer/elevator configurations. First, with
the full aerodynamic and dynamic counter balance, they with a lesser
modified configuration (not as large an aerodynamic counterbalance), and
finally with no aerodynamic counter balance at all. In each case,
absolutely no flutter, or to be more specific not even any indication of
flutter. So if your airplane is having a problem, something may be
different about your airplane. But lets not totally rule it out yet until
we know more from you.
So can you give us some more information to go on? For example, you
said it happened twice at about 140 knots indicated. Was that the first two
times you had your Lighting to 140 knots? Or has it been beyond that before
with no problems on other occasions? When it happened, what did you feel
(or see) to make you think elevator flutter? Was the stick moving? If so,
could you freeze the stick with hand pressure? What did you do to case what
ever was happening to stop happening? Did it stop immediately whey you did
that? How much flying time on your airplane? Have you checked the elevator
control system to see if there is excess slop in the system? Is anything
looser now than before? I have seen at least one case where some rod end
bearings developed some slop and the extra slop did cause some minor aileron
buzz but no real buffet. Do you have the modification with the elevator
trim tab? If so has that tab been there all along? And if so, how is the
hinge for the tab? Has it loosened up? Sorry for all the questions, but
these kind of things will help diagnose the problem and come up with a fix.
As Dennis hinted at, with no tape between the wing and the fuselage
karman, you will probably have a higher stall speed and some strange buffet
feelings, but it is not flutter. So you might want to check that area.
Other than the above, I can offer no other suggestions until we hear
more from you. Nick will certainly jump in here when he see this on Monday
morning. Rest assured that the Lightning is one of the more thoroughly
tested designs out there. It is way stronger and thus safer than it has to
be, but that is the basic design philosophy that Arion goes by - better than
the others.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 8/8/2010 6:15:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
smokeysmail@bigpond.com writes:
Nick,
I have experienced elevator flutter twice at around 140 knots indicated. I
was told by the Australian agent Dennis, that it would be a loose tape under
the wing.
I have not yet retaped the wing joint yet, but I would like the Mass Balance
figures so I can check the elevator myself.
Can you send me the info please? I will keep you posted on what I find.
Also do you have the mass balance figures for the ailerons?
Should the Lightning have bungie cords on the elevator pushrod to hold some
weight?
Thanks Smokey.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning
Sent: Thursday, 5 August 2010 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
No. Did you experience this or just simply asking?
The prototype was mass balanced at first but when looking at light sport and
saving weight we removed the balances and retested. There was no evidence of
flutter.
We dive test every LSA Lightning to Vne, 180knts IAS ( 208mph) with proper
attempts to induce flutter with no issues. It is required by the ASTM on
every aircraft.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert keen
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:06 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Elevator flutter
Has anyone had a problem with elevator flutter? Can anyone tell me the mass
balance limits of the lightning control surfaces?
Thanks Smokey
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Latest newsletter |
Buz,
Once again a great newsletter this month. As an update Ricks lightning has
flown and seems to be doing well, only comments are its alot different than
his Maule! But in a good way. Not sure what number we have here but Mark the
"potentate of numbers" and other things can tell us.
As an update on the new top secret homebuilt project going on here we are 9
weeks along and should be completed in time for Sun n Fun!
Nick
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