Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:22 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:14 PM - Re: Jabiru Engine seminar in Sunny Arizona (Bill Strahan)
2. 01:00 PM - Re: Thoughts on Mogas and it's use in the Lightning (Brian Whittingham)
3. 05:34 PM - Re: First Flights @ Green Landings (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
4. 09:15 PM - Aircraft line drawings (Wayne Patterson)
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Engine seminar in Sunny Arizona |
Having just returned from the seminar in Shelbyville, I highly recommend attendance
for Lightning owners. I now have much more confidence in my ability to maintain
and troubleshoot the engine.
It took several years to reach the point that I felt I could fix just about anything
that was fixable in the field during a trip in my Grumman. I really only
reached that point after my partners and I overhauled the engine with an A&P
supervising. The seminar at Shelbyville was as thorough as a complete overhaul
experience (minus obtaining new parts and draining of wallet, of course) and
left me feeling just as confident in my knowledge about the 3300 as I was about
the O-320.
Again, highly recommended.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320851#320851
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Mogas and it's use in the Lightning |
There's actually a very good article on this very subject right now at www.
bydanjohnson.com about halfway down the page. Dan is a longtime light airc
raft enthusiast and friend to the group at Shelbyville. I had the pleasure
of meeting him on an airshow outing with Pete a few years back after his a
ccident in the radical CZAW Parrot. He is a very nice gentleman and I'd re
commend his website to LSA enthusiasts. It is a good resource to know what
is going on in the larger LSA community. Although an excellent starting r
esource it is important to note that this is still one man's opinion and yo
u should try your own demo flights to make an informed decision as to what
fits you. Thanks=2C Brian W
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23=2C 2010=2C at 9:53 AM=2C N1BZRich@AOL.COM wrote:
> Steve=2C
> The gist of Nick's post on Mogas as I read it=2C is that they don't r
ecommend you use auto fuel. And I totally agree. The small cost savings i
s just not worth the other potential problems in my book. Auto gas with et
hanol has really been a big problem for the boat industry. Almost all of t
he boats with glass tanks=2C regardless of how the tanks were sealed have h
ad problems - just like Nick was talking about. And if you can get auto ga
s without ethanol=2C there are other considerations to think about. I gues
s the main one is that it tends to start to go bad pretty quick and will le
ave really bad deposits in your tank=2C fuel lines=2C carb=2C etc. Aviatio
n gas had additives to prevent that. Another consideration is that auto ga
s does not have the additive to prevent problems as you go to altitude (fue
l vapor problems=2C etc.). Granted=2C you are probably OK to 5 or 6 thousa
nd feet=2C but above that you might start to have vapor lock=2C or other pr
oblems. If you live at a high altitude - maybe Colorado - the auto fuel pr
obably does have some sort of additive to help with that situation=2C but f
or us low country people=2C it is a potential problem.
> My bottom line is that I only use aviation gas in my airplanes. Sure
=2C even the 100LL has too much lead for the low compression engines (parti
cularly my Cub) but I would rather clean the plugs and change the oil more
often than to worry about the many more negatives with auto fuel. Another
problem I have heard of is that some people think they are buying auto fuel
without ethanol=2C but some have found ethanol in some batches even though
they were told it was ethanol free. So if you are going to take the chanc
e=2C get one of the alcohol test kits from the EAA.
> Just my $0.02 worth.
> Blue Skies=2C
> Buz
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2010 9:03:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C info@
flylightning.net writes:
> I don=92t think it will bond to the Kreem. IF you are in the building sta
ges and have not painted it would be simple enough to strip the kreem liner
and seal with KBS.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sundquist
> Sent: Monday=2C November 22=2C 2010 10:03 PM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on Mogas and it's use in the Lightn
ing
>
>
>
> Nick=2C
>
> Would it be possible to put the KBS product on top of the Kreem? If ther
e has never been any fuel in the tanks would it bond to the Kreem and prote
ct it from the auto fuel?
>
> Thanks=2C
>
> Steve Sundquist
> Kit #48
>
> On 11/22/2010 2:58 PM=2C flylightning wrote:
>
> Group=2C
>
>
>
> Recently I have been doing a good bit of research and study on Auto fuel
with ethanol. This comes from some problems with the Kreem fuel tank sealan
t we had used in earlier airframes.
>
> We have recently become aware of 2 tanks which are having sealant issues
due to other than a manufacturing defect. They are both related to the use
of auto fuel. In no cases have any issues with 100LL and kreem been noted.
1 of the tanks has been using auto fuel with ethanol=2C the other auto fuel
from a known source with no ethanol added. In both cases the sealant appea
rs to be deteriorating. Having said that=2C we were very careful in the sel
ection of the product being used=2C Kreem. This was advertised to be safe w
ith methanol=2C ethanol=2C and gasohol=2C all of which are one form or anot
her of an alcohol blend.
>
>
>
> After searching on other internet groups like this one=2C specifically ot
her aircraft types with fiberglass tanks that are sealed=2C I believe that
there is more to the issue than just the ethanol. Other types of aircraft w
ith similar tank designs have been exhibiting the same problems that these
2 tanks have. Those aircraft are in some cases using the Kreem=2C and in ot
hers a different type of sealer. One case with personal experience is a ja
biru here in the hanger with tank sealer problems=2C that aircraft and its
tanks were built overseas with a different sealer. There has been much dis
cussion of other additives used for the increasingly strict emission requir
ements imposed by the EPA. Also about seasonal blends that are typically ha
rsher in the winter months than summer.
>
>
>
> On a completely unrelated issue to fuel tank sealant=2C but involving the
use of auto fuel. An engine had to have its complete intake system includi
ng heads rebuilt due to a varnished like substance which gummed up all valv
es and coated the intake pipes. This aircraft was using auto fuel with no e
thanol but was from a trusted source and was not old=2C no reasonable expla
nation for this to occur.
>
>
>
> We have switched to=2C some time ago=2C a different type of sealant in an
effort to be proactive about the Kreem product=2C however it seems to be c
lear that the problem was not the kreem but the auto fuel it self and addit
ives in it. The sealant now being used is called KBS coating systems. IT un
like the kreem chemically bonds to the tanks instead of an elastomer like s
kin. If any one would like know the serial numbers we can provide about whe
n the change took place=2C however it is easy enough to tell be looking in
the tank. If your tanks are white=2C its Kreem=2C if they are silver is the
KBS system.
>
>
>
> Just to recap=2C there has been no issues or problems at all with the use
of 100ll in the Kreem sealed tanks=2C only those using auto fuel. And in n
o cases have we had or heard of any issues with either fuels in the KBS sea
led tanks.
>
>
>
> I would strongly recommend the discontinued use of auto fuel in the Light
ning tanks until we can further understand just exactly what is going on. I
know that there are many out there who prefer the use of auto fuel for its
cost but until we are=2C and I am=2C satisfied with answers about what is
possibly going on in Auto fuel than I would have to say don=92t use it.
>
>
>
> Nick Otterback
>
> Arion Aircraft=2C LLC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.buildersbooks.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>
> ========================
===========
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
> ========================
===========
> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> ========================
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>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First Flights @ Green Landings |
Ryan, Congratulations to the Green Landing's team for two more successful
builds and first flights. Keep up the great work. When you get a chance,
send me (directly to my email) some more info on Stuart and Don (background
info - where from, interest, etc, anything actually) for the next
newsletter. I'm actually working on the December issue now.
Thanks,
Buz
In a message dated 11/23/2010 3:49:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ryan@greenlandings.com writes:
Congratulations to both Stuart Reed and Don Shaffer! Within the past week
and half both aircraft had successful first flights! Pictures attached!
Stuart Reed - N9779N (White, Blue and Maroon)
Don Shaffer - N270J (White, Green and Gold)
Ryan Gross
Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
SkyRanger Aircraft
www.greenlandings.com
304-754-6010
Message 4
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| Subject: | Aircraft line drawings |
Does anyone have a set of plan view and side elevation view drawings of
the lightning? Hopefully suitable for paint scheme planning
...............................
Wayne Patterson
TRANSFORM CAMBODIA
PO Box 398 South Perth 6951
08 94743340
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan
gross
Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2010 4:30 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: First Flights @ Green Landings
Congratulations to both Stuart Reed and Don Shaffer! Within the past
week and half both aircraft had successful first flights! Pictures
attached!
Stuart Reed - N9779N (White, Blue and Maroon)
Don Shaffer - N270J (White, Green and Gold)
Ryan Gross
Green Landings Flight Center, Inc
SkyRanger Aircraft
www.greenlandings.com
304-754-6010
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