Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:00 AM - Re: Rudder travel (selwyn)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (flylightning)
3. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (Maxim Voronin)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (Harry Weber)
5. 02:10 PM - Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
6. 02:58 PM - Re: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (Pete Krotje)
7. 05:02 PM - Re: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (John Drane)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder travel |
The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube and
the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In the Esqual
this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is not affected
by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the rudder stop.
Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the elevator which causes
the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator movement. Up elevator causes
the tube to move aft and it acts as a premature rudder stop, with down elevator,
the tube moves forward and there is no real rudder stop hence the recent
newsletter information on rudder stops.
On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder over until
it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve this interference
moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the extremes and
I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back stick and full
rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most Lightnings.
Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it a likely
emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from inverted spins
then you are way outside the design envelope :)
I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It is not
in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some LSA documentation
perhaps?
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder travel |
I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection
right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you
do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess
if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a
time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not
require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight
scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome
to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the
flight envelope....
No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry
speeds.....
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel
The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube
and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In
the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is
not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the
rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the
elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator
movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a
premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there
is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder
stops.
On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder
over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve
this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the
extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back
stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most
Lightnings.
Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it
a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from
inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :)
I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It
is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some
LSA documentation perhaps?
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder travel |
Hi Nick,
What's your entry speed in a sna... oh, never mind.
Max
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:02 AM, flylightning <info@flylightning.net> wrote:
> info@flylightning.net>
>
> I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so
> deflection
> right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you
> do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess
> if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of
> a
> time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not
> require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that
> flight
> scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome
> to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of
> the
> flight envelope....
>
>
> No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry
> speeds.....
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel
>
>
> The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube
> and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In
> the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is
> not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the
> rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the
> elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator
> movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a
> premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there
> is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder
> stops.
>
> On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder
> over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve
> this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the
> extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back
> stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most
> Lightnings.
>
> Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it
> a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from
> inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :)
>
> I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It
> is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some
> LSA documentation perhaps?
>
> --------
> Cheers, Selwyn
> Kit 66
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder travel |
Thanks everyone for the info. I looked at the manual and didn't see any definition
of 20* for the rudder. I also wondered if I had missed something. My Glasair
III had definite degrees of movement required as it was aerobatic probably.
As the story was relayed to me, this pilot encountered some propwash from a
plane ahead and almost hit some trees on takeoff. Sometimes stories get embellished
I know. I can't wait to start building so I will be more knowledgeable.
This looks like a great group of information sharing builders just as the Glasair
group is. If I do snap rolls it will probably be on short final and unintentional,
just over control...Harry
For the holidays, remember the liver is evil and must be punished!
----- Original Message -----
From: "flylightning" <info@flylightning.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:02:34 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel
I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection
right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you
do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess
if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a
time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not
require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight
scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome
to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the
flight envelope....
No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry
speeds.....
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel
The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube
and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In
the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is
not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the
rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the
elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator
movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a
premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there
is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder
stops.
On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder
over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve
this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the
extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back
stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most
Lightnings.
Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it
a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from
inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :)
I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It
is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some
LSA documentation perhaps?
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995
Message 5
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| Subject: | Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 |
Hi everyone,
Just a reminder that there is still time for you to vote for your
choice of Lightning of the Year for 2010. Response so far has been good, but
not nearly as many votes as we have readers- readership must be approaching
the billions by now. So if you haven't voted yet you have until 27
December to do so. Take one more look at the December Lightning Newsletter to
see
all the monthly winners in 2010 and send your vote for Lightning of the
Year for 2010 directly to me at _N1BZRICH@AOL.COM_ (mailto:N1BZRICH@AOL.COM)
.
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Blue Skies to all.
Buz
Message 6
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| Subject: | Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 |
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:07 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010
<<- readership must be approaching the billions by now. >>
Our readership seems to expand like government spending!
Pete
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 |
Buz,
I promised some pictures from my build at Greg Hobbs place. We would
have finished but had a lot of distractions and a couple parts
shortages. Greg had a lot of activity that week. Still hope to finish
and fly in January.
Mery Christmas
John Drane
N621WV
Kit #85
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:06 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010
Hi everyone,
Just a reminder that there is still time for you to vote for your
choice of Lightning of the Year for 2010. Response so far has been
good, but not nearly as many votes as we have readers- readership must
be approaching the billions by now. So if you haven't voted yet you
have until 27 December to do so. Take one more look at the December
Lightning Newsletter to see all the monthly winners in 2010 and send
your vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 directly to me at
N1BZRICH@AOL.COM.
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Blue Skies to all.
Buz
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