---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/21/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:00 AM - Re: Rudder travel (selwyn) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (flylightning) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (Maxim Voronin) 4. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Rudder travel (Harry Weber) 5. 02:10 PM - Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 6. 02:58 PM - Re: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (Pete Krotje) 7. 05:02 PM - Re: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 (John Drane) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:21 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel From: "selwyn" The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder stops. On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most Lightnings. Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :) I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some LSA documentation perhaps? -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:11 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the flight envelope.... No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry speeds..... Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder stops. On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most Lightnings. Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :) I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some LSA documentation perhaps? -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel From: Maxim Voronin Hi Nick, What's your entry speed in a sna... oh, never mind. Max On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:02 AM, flylightning wrote: > info@flylightning.net> > > I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so > deflection > right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you > do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess > if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of > a > time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not > require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that > flight > scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome > to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of > the > flight envelope.... > > > No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry > speeds..... > > Nick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel > > > The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube > and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In > the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is > not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the > rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the > elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator > movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a > premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there > is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder > stops. > > On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder > over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve > this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the > extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back > stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most > Lightnings. > > Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it > a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from > inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :) > > I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It > is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some > LSA documentation perhaps? > > -------- > Cheers, Selwyn > Kit 66 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:11 AM PST US From: Harry Weber Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel Thanks everyone for the info. I looked at the manual and didn't see any definition of 20* for the rudder. I also wondered if I had missed something. My Glasair III had definite degrees of movement required as it was aerobatic probably. As the story was relayed to me, this pilot encountered some propwash from a plane ahead and almost hit some trees on takeoff. Sometimes stories get embellished I know. I can't wait to start building so I will be more knowledgeable. This looks like a great group of information sharing builders just as the Glasair group is. If I do snap rolls it will probably be on short final and unintentional, just over control...Harry For the holidays, remember the liver is evil and must be punished! ----- Original Message ----- From: "flylightning" Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:02:34 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the flight envelope.... No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry speeds..... Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:57 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Rudder travel The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points. In the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the rudder stop. Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator movement. Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder stops. On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back stick and full rudder. I would imagine something similar occurs with most Lightnings. Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it a likely emergency configuration. If you are trying to recover from inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope :) I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from? It is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions. Some LSA documentation perhaps? -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323995#323995 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:24 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 Hi everyone, Just a reminder that there is still time for you to vote for your choice of Lightning of the Year for 2010. Response so far has been good, but not nearly as many votes as we have readers- readership must be approaching the billions by now. So if you haven't voted yet you have until 27 December to do so. Take one more look at the December Lightning Newsletter to see all the monthly winners in 2010 and send your vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 directly to me at _N1BZRICH@AOL.COM_ (mailto:N1BZRICH@AOL.COM) . Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Blue Skies to all. Buz ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:41 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:07 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 <<- readership must be approaching the billions by now. >> Our readership seems to expand like government spending! Pete ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:04 PM PST US From: "John Drane" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 Buz, I promised some pictures from my build at Greg Hobbs place. We would have finished but had a lot of distractions and a couple parts shortages. Greg had a lot of activity that week. Still hope to finish and fly in January. Mery Christmas John Drane N621WV Kit #85 ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 Hi everyone, Just a reminder that there is still time for you to vote for your choice of Lightning of the Year for 2010. Response so far has been good, but not nearly as many votes as we have readers- readership must be approaching the billions by now. So if you haven't voted yet you have until 27 December to do so. Take one more look at the December Lightning Newsletter to see all the monthly winners in 2010 and send your vote for Lightning of the Year for 2010 directly to me at N1BZRICH@AOL.COM. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Blue Skies to all. Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.