Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:43 AM - Jets (FamilyGage@AOL.COM)
2. 09:55 AM - Re: Jets (Maxim Voronin)
3. 10:06 AM - Re: Jets (Wayne Lenox)
4. 11:06 AM - Re: Jets (James, Clive R)
5. 05:58 PM - Re: Jets (FamilyGage@AOL.COM)
6. 06:07 PM - Re: Jets (FamilyGage@AOL.COM)
7. 07:25 PM - Re: Jets (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting.
Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough
attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many
Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not
replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine
#775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure
that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table
spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The
race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only
Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the
race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and
as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push
harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and
got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine s
moothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally
black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on
the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no
experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to
prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
_familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com)
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see your
EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my Lightning
with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000 feet at wide
open throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are experiencing, but I'd
like to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <FamilyGage@aol.com> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting.
Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough
attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many
Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not
replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This
engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to
make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used
maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race
is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only
Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the
race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and
as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and
got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine
smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally
black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on
the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no
experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to
prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage@aol.com
*
*
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ray
Check out the Hacman mixture control from Green Sky adventures Inc. I i
nstalled one on my 3300 powered Lightning and it runs much better at alt
itude. At 9500ft I use 4 1/2 GPH at 2900 RPM.
Wayne
N123WL
---------- Original Message ----------
From: FamilyGage@AOL.COM
Subject: Lightning-List: Jets
Gentlemen:I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing j
etting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay
enough attention.About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2
005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.She
just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replace
d. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine
#775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make s
ure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe
a table spoon of oil.I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an an
nual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruis
e speeds.Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was
the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway
, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.All of my flying
is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the
Jabiru ran smooth as glass.This year with the increased competition, I
felt that we had to push harder.PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the
engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. The
refore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't so
und correct.When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They
were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil
and black soot on the belly.I have an excellent A/P who is learning abou
t the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.Request any suggestio
ns or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage
.Thank you for reading this long request.Ray Gage386.304.6808familygage@
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
==============
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Same deal with my 3300 in my Esqual first time round at max rev's it
'bobbled' is how I would describe it. Pull it back a bit and it evened
out. I thought it was going over rich but had other issues to chase and
resolved to look into it later.
I had the plane out the air for 9 months when I fixed the U/C and took
the time to change the cowlings to a Lightning set and do some tidying
up. Now it's not doing the uneven running. The only thing that is
different is I have a smooth bore hose elbow on the carby inlet. My son
was messing with his car and fitted a fancy high flow airfilter, the old
system had a hose with a nice bend in it and after trimming it it fitted
nicely between the filter box (Arion) and the carby. The NACA scoop in
the cowling is also different but I don't think that is what made the
difference..
Not suggesting this is the issue in your case but the performance at max
throttle was as you describe. Changing the airflow into the carb has got
rid of it maybe something to think about.
Regards, Clive
3300 #1460
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maxim
Voronin
Sent: 30 January 2011 17:53
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Jets
Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see
your EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my
Lightning with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000
feet at wide open throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are
experiencing, but I'd like to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <FamilyGage@aol.com> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing
jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't
pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have
used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were
not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal.
This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the
tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and
she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm
race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was
the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built.
Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use
2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to
push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very
rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at
2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They
were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil
and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but
there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the
engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage@aol.com
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Clive:
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a Lightning cowl, but no air box or
ducting. Just don't how she ran so well for three years. Just never had a
need for using over 3,000 rpm. Will take things apart next week.
Ray
In a message dated 1/30/2011 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
clive.james@uk.bp.com writes:
Same deal with my 3300 in my Esqual first time round at max rev's it
'bobbled' is how I would describe it. Pull it back a bit and it evened out. I
thought it was going over rich but had other issues to chase and resolved to
look into it later.
I had the plane out the air for 9 months when I fixed the U/C and took the
time to change the cowlings to a Lightning set and do some tidying up. Now
it's not doing the uneven running. The only thing that is different is I
have a smooth bore hose elbow on the carby inlet. My son was messing with
his car and fitted a fancy high flow airfilter, the old system had a hose
with a nice bend in it and after trimming it fitted nicely between the filter
box (Arion) and the carby. The NACA scoop in the cowling is also different
but I don't think that is what made the difference..
Not suggesting this is the issue in your case but the performance at max
throttle was as you describe. Changing the airflow into the carb has got rid
of it maybe something to think about.
Regards, Clive
3300 #1460
____________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maxim Voronin
Sent: 30 January 2011 17:53
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Jets
Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see your
EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my Lightning
with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000 feet at wide open
throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are experiencing, but I'd like
to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <_FamilyGage@aol.com_ (mailto:FamilyGage@aol.com)
> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting.
Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough
attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many
Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not
replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine
#775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure
that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table
spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The
race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only
Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the
race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm;
and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push
harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and
got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine
smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally
black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on
the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no
experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to
prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
_familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com)
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks Wayne:
Will attempt to reach Green Sky.
Ray
In a message dated 1/30/2011 1:06:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
waynelenox@juno.com writes:
Ray
Check out the Hacman mixture control from Green Sky adventures Inc. I
installed one on my 3300 powered Lightning and it runs much better at
altitude. At 9500ft I use 4 1/2 GPH at 2900 RPM.
Wayne
N123WL
---------- Original Message ----------
From: FamilyGage@AOL.COM
Subject: Lightning-List: Jets
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting.
Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough
attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many
Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not
replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine
#775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure
that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table
spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The
race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only
Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the
race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm;
and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push
harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and
got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine
smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally
black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on
the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no
experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to
prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
_familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com)
===================================
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
==================================== tronics.com
==================================== www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ray,
A few thoughts come to mind as I read your email. First, your engine
at serial number 775 will be a solid lifter engine and thus require the
valve adjustments on a regular basis. I now have about 720 hours on my engine
(#843, I think) and I can get away with only adjusting them about every
100 hours, but when I had less time on the engine, I always adjusted the
valves at about 50 hours. If the valves clearance is not set right you may
lose some RPM or get some rough running at the higher RPMs. So to get ready
for the race, make sure your valves have been recently adjusted properly -
.010.
Another thought, I think I remember that you have the Lightning nose
cowling on now. That will make your airplane slicker (less drag) and you
should be able to get the same speed at a lower RPM since the engine will not
have to work as hard. So you should be getting a higher RPM with the
Lightning cowling at WOT. But, since your engine is showing black soot in your
exhaust stacks, that certainly would indicate you are running too rich.
Next time you fly at the high RPM that causes the rough running, pull on
carb heat to see if that helps smooth out the engine - another indication of
being too rich. My engine has no muffler so my carb hear muff is pretty
small on one of the straight exhaust pipes. Even that little amount of carb
heat would show me I was indeed too rich.
One final thought - have you changed to a higher pitch prop. That too
can cause the engine to richen out a little.
I don't remember if you are running gear leg fairings and Lightning
low drag wheel pants, but if so, and with the right carb settings and the
right prop, you can easily beat the 116 knots you mentioned. I don't remember
the numbers at the moment, but look back in the Lightning newsletters to
the issue that reported on the Lightning speed dash at this past October's
Lightning Fly In, and you will get and idea of what speed an Esqual LS
(Lightning Stuff) is capable of - even in bumpy air.
Good luck on the upcoming race. Blow them other airplanes out of the
sky.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 1/30/2011 12:44:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
FamilyGage@AOL.COM writes:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting.
Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough
attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many
Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not
replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine
#775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure
that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table
spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The
race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only
Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the
race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm;
and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push
harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and
got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine
smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally
black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on
the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no
experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to
prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
_familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|