---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/19/11: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Re: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru (flylightning) 2. 07:03 AM - Re: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru (Bernard Melendez, Jr.) 3. 01:46 PM - Re: Sun N Fun (ple190) 4. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Sun N Fun (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 5. 02:28 PM - Lightning POH for experimental (flylightning) 6. 02:43 PM - poh (flylightning) 7. 02:58 PM - Re: poh (Ewin Paul) 8. 05:54 PM - Re: poh (Wayne Patterson) 9. 08:06 PM - Re: poh (Harry Weber) 10. 09:22 PM - Re: poh (Helmut Frensch) 11. 09:30 PM - Re: poh (Wayne Patterson) 12. 10:11 PM - Re: poh (Helmut Frensch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:03 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru Bernardo, I don't think I would mess with them. Spend a little time during flight testing to get the air baffles correct and the tuning and you shouldn't have any problems. Normally the need to torque the heads settles down after the engine fully breaks in, by 50 hours we usually don't see anything move. Now if you do have a bolt constantly moving that is a good indication of a cooling problem over that cylinder and attention to the baffle above it and it's CHT should be noted and delt with. The debate over aircooled and water cooled can rage on but Jabiru has got a good engine here and I wouldn't fool with adding those heads, it not worth it. The same company makes a finned valve cover as well, claiming to drop oil temps and such. The problem is that there is not enough splash oil on the covers to really transfer heat. Also if one understands the Airducts provided than you will see that there is not much airflow over the valve covers to transfer any heat in the fins on a finned valve cover. They look "Cool" though. I wouldn't want to add the mess of hoses to my engine bay, and certainly not the water weight, even pregnant women don't like water weight! So come to our engine class in May and we can show you the correct way to install and maintain the engine properly and put to bed all those internet myths. (sorry shame less plug for Mark and My engine course) but you really should attend its fun and educational. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allan Maxwell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru Hi Bernard as a fellow esqual owner I have a solid lift engine I check the head torque every 25 hrs and check the valve lash no problems 435 hrs. to date cht hottest 295 . The newest engines are good serial # 2222 on a friends is a big improvement mine is 5?? dont remember. Allan maxwell --- On Sun, 4/17/11, Bernard Melendez, Jr. wrote: From: Bernard Melendez, Jr. Subject: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru Group, A friend in Oz turned me on to this issue, of Jabiru 3300 heads needing re-torquing and becoming deformed due to excessive heat. I don't know how much of an issue this is, as I'm not yet at the engine install and run stage on my Lightning, but I'm definitely interested in Rotec's developments. Has anyone else had any issues with high CHT temps and are you having to re-torque the heads on a regular basis? Here's the very first You Tube video that I saw on that subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfftfKg0yvo&NR=1 This is a solution that if true, could make the 3300 a much better engine and would keep temps down and extend its longevity. If anyone else has heard of this, or has tried it, let's talk about it. Food for thought. Lots of food. Bernardo Melendez, Kit # 110 Bernardo Melendez, Realtor Professional Real Estate Inspector ALIANZA INSPECTIONS Mobile: 281.536.9052 Bernardo@AlianzaInspections.com " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:36 AM PST US From: "Bernard Melendez, Jr." Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru Thanks Nick. I was not going to change anything or go through the extra exp ense of adding $$$ and weight to a standard installation. I was merely aski ng if anyone else had heard or had had any experience with those new water cooled heads, and their thoughts on the subject. There's a plaque on my garage wall that my late father-in-law made that say s "We only fix what's broke". So, my plans were to leave well enough alone and only deal with things that are not right after operating and testing, i f any. But I also think that a forum for discussing, possibly improving, or making our aircraft safer is a good thing. Which leads to a subject that's been o n my mind, and that is that I would love to see more communication and disc ussion amongst the builders and owners of Lightnings on this list or in the Yahoo group and to exchange ideas. Perhaps others will think that is good and someone can pick up the gauntlet and start dialogues. Glad you guys made it safely through the storm in Lakeland. Best regards, Bernardo Melendez, Kit # 110 --- On Tue, 4/19/11, flylightning wrote: From: flylightning Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ABernardo, =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AI don=99t think I would mess with=0Athem. Spend a little time during flight testing to get the air baffles correct=0Aand the tuning and you shouldn=99t have any problems. =0A=0ANormally the need to t orque the heads=0Asettles down after the engine fully breaks in, by 50 hour s we usually don=99t=0Asee anything move. =0A=0ANow if you do have a bolt constantly=0Amoving that is a good indication of a cooling problem ov er that cylinder and=0Aattention to the baffle above it and it=99s CH T should be noted and delt=0Awith. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AThe debate over airc ooled and water cooled=0Acan rage on but Jabiru has got a good engine here and I wouldn=99t fool=0Awith adding those heads, it not worth it. =0A =0AThe same company makes a finned valve=0Acover as well, claiming to drop oil temps and such. The problem is that there=0Ais not enough splash oil on the covers to really transfer heat. =0A=0AAlso if one understands the Air ducts=0Aprovided than you will see that there is not much airflow over the valve covers=0Ato transfer any heat in the fins on a finned valve cover. Th ey look =9CCool=9D=0Athough. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AI wouldn =99t want to add the mess of=0Ahoses to my engine bay, and certainly not th e water weight, even pregnant women=0Adon=99t like water weight! =0A =0A =C2- =0A=0ASo come to our engine class in May and we=0Acan show you t he correct way to install and maintain the engine properly and=0Aput to bed all those internet myths. =0A=0A(sorry shame less plug for Mark and My=0Ae ngine course) but you really should attend its fun and educational. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AThanks =0A=0ANick Otterback =0A=0AArion Aircraft =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-lightnin g-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allan Maxwell =0ASent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:24=0APM =0ATo: lightning-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: Lightning-List: Rotec=0Awater cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Hi Bernard as a fellow esqual owner=C2- I have a=0A solid lift engine=C2- I check the head torque every 25 hrs and check the=0A valve lash no problems 435 hrs. to date cht hottest 295 . The newest engines=0A are good serial # 2222 on a friends is a big improv ement mine is 5?? dont=0A remember.=C2- Allan maxwell =0A =0A --- On Sun, 4/17/11, Bernard Melendez, Jr. =0A wrote : =0A =0A From: Bernard Melendez, Jr. =0A Subject: Lightning-List: Rotec water cooled heads for 3300 Jabiru =0A To: lightning-list@matronics.com =0A Date: Sunday, April 17, 2011, 9:26 AM =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Gr oup, =0A A friend in Oz turned me on to this issue, of Jabiru 3300 heads need ing=0A re-torquing and becoming deformed due to excessive heat. I don't know how=0A much of an issue this is, as I'm not yet at the engine insta ll and run=0A stage on my Lightning, but I'm definitely interested in Ro tec's=0A developments. =0A Has anyone else had any issues with high CHT temps and are you havin g to=0A re-torque the heads on a regular basis? Here's the very first Yo u Tube=0A video that I saw on that subject. =0A =0A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfftfKg0yvo&NR=1 =0A =0A This is a solution that if true, could make the 3300 a much better e ngine=0A and would keep temps down and extend its longevity. If anyone e lse has=0A heard of this, or has tried it, let's talk about it. Food for thought. Lots=0A of food. =0A =0A Bernardo Melendez, Kit # 110 =0A =0A Bernardo=C2-Melendez, =0A Realtor =0A Professional Real Estate Inspector =0A =0A =0A ALIANZA INSP ECTIONS =0A =0A =0A Mobile:=C2-=C2- 281.536.9052 =0A =0A =0A Bernardo@AlianzaInspections.com =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =C2 - =C2-" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Lightning-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blan k>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - The Lightnin g-List Email Forum -=C2-=C2- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lig htning-List=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=C2-=C2- --> http://forum s.matronics.com=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Site -=C2- Thank you for your genero us support!=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.=C2-=C2 - --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:24 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun From: "ple190" HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:42 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun Hi Paul, I'm going to info Nick and Mark on this email to you. They have the POH for the experimental lightning on file (or CD) and have probably kept theirs up to date. I have not kept my file updated since I originally worked on it and gave them the file. Good luck on your test flying. I know you will have fun. Buz In a message dated 4/19/2011 4:47:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, plge190@optusnet.com.au writes: --> Lightning-List message posted by: "ple190" HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:30 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning POH for experimental Paul, Attached is a flight manual for one of our last experimental demos. DO NOT PRINT THIS OUT DIRCECTLY AND USE IT AS IT IS NOT FOR YOUR PLANE!!!!! Use it as a template. Add information about your aircraft ie; weight and balance, install equipment, speeds, ect. Although your airplane is a Lightning it may be different from ours. It is always the builders responsibility to produce a flight manual for your aircraft. In this case Buz worked very hard to give us a good template to start with. Again you are the builder and you must come up with your V speeds and approach speeds to best compliment your aircraft and installed systems. So have fun with it and here ya go. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:44 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: Lightning-List: poh Paul, Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. Let me know if you get it. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:10 PM PST US From: Ewin Paul Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh Thanks Nick Was that email or postal address ? Paul On 20/04/2011, at 7:39 AM, flylightning wrote: > > > > Paul, > > Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. > Let > me know if you get it. > > Thanks > Nick Otterback > Arion Aircraft > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun > > > > > HI Buz > I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put > together > as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better > Thanks > Paul :) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:48 PM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh From: "Wayne Patterson" Greetings Nick Could you sent it to my email as well please. I'm still about 4 months away from first flight but I'd like to read the POH you have. Cheers from Australia Wayne Patterson TRANSFORM CAMBODIA Ph (08) 9444 1135 Fax (08) 9443 5203 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 5:40 AM Subject: Lightning-List: poh Paul, Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. Let me know if you get it. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:58 PM PST US From: Harry Weber Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh Hi Buz: Would you mind forwarding the POH to me also. glasair98hw@comcast.net Thanks Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ewin Paul" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:54:27 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh Thanks Nick Was that email or postal address ? Paul On 20/04/2011, at 7:39 AM, flylightning wrote: > > > > Paul, > > Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. > Let > me know if you get it. > > Thanks > Nick Otterback > Arion Aircraft > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun > > > > > HI Buz > I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put > together > as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better > Thanks > Paul :) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:00 PM PST US From: "Helmut Frensch" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh H Wayne. I have a modified vesion for Australia which I did for my brothers lightning if you are interested. I am also over half way to finishng another lightning for a friend. Not far away from painting. Cheers Helmut. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Patterson" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh Greetings Nick Could you sent it to my email as well please. I'm still about 4 months away from first flight but I'd like to read the POH you have. Cheers from Australia Wayne Patterson TRANSFORM CAMBODIA Ph (08) 9444 1135 Fax (08) 9443 5203 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 5:40 AM Subject: Lightning-List: poh Paul, Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. Let me know if you get it. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh From: "Wayne Patterson" Certainly please Helmut! Wayne Patterson TRANSFORM CAMBODIA Ph (08) 9444 1135 Fax (08) 9443 5203 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Helmut Frensch Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh H Wayne. I have a modified vesion for Australia which I did for my brothers lightning if you are interested. I am also over half way to finishng another lightning for a friend. Not far away from painting. Cheers Helmut. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Patterson" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh Greetings Nick Could you sent it to my email as well please. I'm still about 4 months away from first flight but I'd like to read the POH you have. Cheers from Australia Wayne Patterson TRANSFORM CAMBODIA Ph (08) 9444 1135 Fax (08) 9443 5203 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 5:40 AM Subject: Lightning-List: poh Paul, Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. Let me know if you get it. Thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun HI Buz I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put together as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better Thanks Paul :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:43 PM PST US From: "Helmut Frensch" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh Wayne document attached. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Patterson" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:56 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh > > Certainly please Helmut! > > Wayne Patterson > TRANSFORM CAMBODIA > Ph (08) 9444 1135 > Fax (08) 9443 5203 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Helmut > Frensch > Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 12:19 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: poh > > > > H Wayne. > I have a modified vesion for Australia which I did for > my > brothers lightning if you are interested. I am also over half way to > finishng another lightning for a friend. Not far away from painting. > > Cheers Helmut. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Patterson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:49 AM > Subject: RE: Lightning-List: poh > > > Greetings Nick > Could you sent it to my email as well please. I'm still about 4 months > away from first flight but I'd like to read the POH you have. > Cheers from Australia > > Wayne Patterson > TRANSFORM CAMBODIA > Ph (08) 9444 1135 > Fax (08) 9443 5203 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > flylightning > Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2011 5:40 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: poh > > > > Paul, > > Just sent it to your address, tried the list but file was too large. Let > me know if you get it. > > Thanks > Nick Otterback > Arion Aircraft > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ple190 > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:44 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Sun N Fun > > > HI Buz > I would really appreciate a copy of the Lightning POH that you put > together > as I will be test flying soon and the more info the better > Thanks > Paul :) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337530#337530 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.