Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:21 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:26 AM - Re: First UK registered Esqual flies in England! (luigi di napoli)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: First UK registered Esqual flies in England! (James, Clive R)
3. 08:48 AM - Re: First UK registered Esqual flies in England! (flylightning)
4. 10:30 PM - Running tank dry (rbelshe@comcast.net)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my birthday again, 48
of them, in fact! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of those really
nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same.
Below are a few more of the nice comments from Listers I've received this year.
Please read them over and see if you don't agree.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few More List Member Comments =====================
I never would have ended up with the great flying airplane I have without
the help of people on the Pietenpol list. Thanks for giving us the medium
to communicate our questions, tips and suggestions.
Matt P.
Thanks for the hard work and maintaining the site commercial free. Good
luck for the future and this site has been a source of great friendship.
Peter B.
It is a great resource.
Jim G.
Thanks so much for your continuing support of the homebuilt community.
Gerald A.
You are doing an outstanding job running the list's. Keep it going.
Bill V.
Thanks for keeping this valuable information source going. Best of all
the forums.
George A.
Another Great year on the RV-List!
Thomas E.
Still the best source of information (& opinion) for builders on a wide
range of issues.
Martin H.
Matt, thanks for hosting and maintaining the lists!
Rumen D.
It is a great resource.
Bryan R.
Thanks for your continuing interest in Van's RV8 kitplanes.
Peter C.
I'm no longer building or flying but like to keep in touch with the current
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Ralph C.
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Douglas D.
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Thanks for keeping this going.
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William D.
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First UK registered Esqual flies in England! |
Hi Clive.=0AThe explanations you sent and the worksheet you attached are ve
ry clear.=0AGood job . My Esqual has, from the beginning, the electric trim
, being the rubber style not adequate.=0AVery good and well described the w
ork on the stabilizer.Will be the first work when the weather gets worst. N
ow we are in a wonderful Indian Summer (here named St. Martin's Summer)=0AI
checked the response, pitching the plane and the result is out of =C2-ex
pectations.=0AThe fugoide seems to increase, instead of decreasing.=0AThe s
uggestions for the rudder cable are to be copied.=0AThank you for the whole
work you made.=0ABest regards=0ALuigi=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________
_____________=0A Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>=0AA: lightnin
g-list@matronics.com =0AInviato: Marted=C3=AC 29 Novembre 2011 20:28=0AOgge
tto: RE: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in England!=0A
=0A=0AFirst UK registered Esqual flies in England!=0AHi Luigi, apologies, a
busy few days.=0A=C2-=0APitch stability, on my Esqual there was a few th
ings making the aircraft unstable and I needed to modifications to get posi
tive stability. That is a basic LAA requirement for any aircraft that goes
on a UK permit to fly with them.=0AFirstly the bungee trim, bungee trim pro
motes instability, the trim force is constant set by the rubber tension, th
e aerodynamic forces are not, pitch nose down and the force on the elevator
is greater so the trim is now out of balance and down she goes.=0AI got ri
d of the bungee trim by fitting the Lightning electric trim upgrade kit and
things improved, she would still speed up when pitched forward but the spe
ed stabilised at about 125 knots (descending) instead of a constant continu
al speed increase.=0ASo more was needed and it was Arion that pointed out t
he solution (thanks Nick). What I needed was a heavier tail when the speed
increased=C3=A2=82=AC=C2to lift the nose. So I lifted the back of the
horizontal stabiliser up about 5 mm. This gave the =C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Che
avier tail=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 I needed and now when pitched nose down
the speed increases and then the nose comes up and it slows and then it rec
overs to the trimmed state.=0A=C2-=0ARegarding the flaps, with full flap
the pitch authority was poor, limiting the travel to 21 degrees (maximum wa
s 26 degrees/ 40 degrees to the horizontal) recovered some of the authority
. My Esqual has the HUGE flaps and testing with the LAA chief engineer he s
howed me how ineffectual the elevator was in an approach configuration. My
main concern was being able to pitch the aircraft down if a gust lifted the
nose and it was clear a little more authority was needed.=0A=C2-=0AFinal
ly, something I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t mention was the stall strips,
I was asked to fit these to give some buffet and warning of impending stal
l. I got some for a Technam and these did the job nicely, they haven=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2t effected anything performance or stall wise but they do
rattle the stick and shake the plane.=0A=C2-=0AI have sent you the job s
heets I produced for the LAA submission, if anyone else wants a look (they
have photos) please send me an E mail.=0A=C2-=0AStill have the engine iss
ues and I am really fed up with Jabiru and their approach to engine develop
ment. I wish I had a late solid lifter 3300, in my opinion this is the =C3
=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cclassic=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 and until they sort out t
he debacle they created with Hydraulic tappets I feel they have ruined a ve
ry good engine.=0A=C2-=0AI still haven=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t got the
=C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cfull=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 permit but hope that will
be a formality when I have got the engine shook down after the recent stri
p down. The 37 hour strip down which I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t expect
to have to do.=0A=C2-=0ARegards, Clive=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-li
ghtning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli=0ASent: 25 November 2011 07:24=0ATo:
lightning-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Lightning-List: First UK regis
tered Esqual flies in England!=0A=C2-=0ACiao Clive.=0AThe report you made
will be more helpful if you add some info regarding the way you correct th
e pitch stability.=0AI noted this on my Esqual =C2-and I am not very happ
y with the answer I have.=0AFirstly you have to report, please , the differ
ent CG location you checked, and if the answer is the same.=0AThan whatever
you done to improve the whole system.=0AA brief description of the travel
of the elevator and the maximum extension fo the flap to remain inside the
elevator authority.=0AI believe this informations will be very important fo
r the whole Esqual/Lightning family.=0AParticularly if =C2-experienced
=C2-under the supervision of =C2-a qualified team .=0AMany thanks,=0ALu
igi=0A=C2-=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0ADa:"James, Clive R"
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>=0AA: lightning-list@matronics.com =0AInviato: Vene
rd=C3=83=C2=AC 25 Novembre 2011 0:38=0AOggetto: RE: Lightning-List: First U
K registered Esqual flies in England!=0AThanks guys, appreciate the words.
Still some way to go with the engine though the plane is sweet.=0A=C2-=0A
Two main changes required by the LAA:=0APitch stability, my Esqual is now s
table in pitch. Push the stick forward (and let got) and she speeds up and
then picks her own nose up and slows down, shortly after she=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2s back in trim. It used to head for the deck or reach for the clou
ds.=0AFlap travel, full flap and the elevator didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t
do much at all, you could push and pull and the nose stayed the same. =0AN
ot where you would want to be on a gusty day, flap is now limited to where
elevator still has effect. If you have a big flapped Esqual it=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2s the third hole you would need to use (shortest).=0A=C2-=0AE
ngine wise I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m considering going back to solid lifte
r. The engine seems marginal on oil and after losing compression with what
I think was over extended lifters (at 37 hours) I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m
beginning to think the solid lifter (standard cam followers) is the way to
go. More research needed, getting some great info from about the world.=0AI
t=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a shame that Jabiru messed about with what was a
good engine=C3=A2=82=AC=C2..=0A=C2-=0ARegards, Clive=0AP.S. hope t
o get an air borne shot before long, that is if I can do more than a circui
t with heading back to land.=0AP.P.S, watch out for the oversized guides, I
wouldn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t have known if the compressions had stayed
-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)=0A_
=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersboo
=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2
-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3
=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82
=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- - The Lightning-List
=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2
=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3
-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
=C3=82=C2- =C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3
=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82
=======================0A=C2-
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'=C2=AB=C3=A5y=C2=ABJ=C3i=C2=A2=C2=BBX=C2=A2=C3=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BlN
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=C3=BBlh=C2=BD=C3=A9=BAz=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=82=AC=C5=BE{=C5=A1
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=87=C2=A7=C2=B6+=C3=9E'=C3=AD=C2=B2=C5=A1=C3=A8=C2=BE'^v=C3=B2
Message 2
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| Subject: | First UK registered Esqual flies in England! |
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| Subject: | First UK registered Esqual flies in England! |
Clive,
The Lighting is a responsive design on all axis but is positively stable
in all of them as well. IF trimmed for 100knts, a power reduction
results in a pitch down and a few oscillations to find 100knts again.
This is true if trimmed at 100knts and power is added, a pitch up will
occur a few oscillations and than the plane will climb at 100 stick
free.
Now you can do the pitch up 10 degrees off the stick and watch her go
too. If started at 100, it will slow to about 70 in the crest and than
back down to 120k or so and than back up this after 2-3 cycles will end
up trimmed again.
I have done this before in the jab230 and the speed change is less and
maybe only one cycle before return to trim. This difference is in the
design and mission of the crafts, since the lightning was design to be a
faster cross country plane, there is less negative angle in the tail vs.
the wing incidence. The jab is a cross country plane but also aimed at
training, with more negative incidence in the tail. The greater the
difference between the tail plane and wing give better stability but
more induced drag and thus less speed. So as with all designs everything
is a compromise based on mission.
Why the esqual molds weren=99t changed baffles me.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James,
Clive R
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in
England!
Glad it=99s of help.
The rudder cable end was a modification asked for by the LAA now you
remind me.
There is another method suggested later by Arion (or a Lightning
builder)for the Lightning. I think there are pictures somewhere.
They use a swivel/ rod end/rose joint solution which is quite neat and I
think will not lengthen the cables a little like my swivels do.
Changing the horizontal stabiliser won=99t be an easy option for
those that have already glassed theirs on unfortunately.
Maybe a Lightning owner can comment? Does the Lightning have positive
pitch stability?
I do wonder why if such a small change improved the stability why the
Esqual moulds were never changed to suit.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di
napoli
Sent: 30 November 2011 08:23
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in
England!
Hi Clive.
The explanations you sent and the worksheet you attached are very clear.
Good job . My Esqual has, from the beginning, the electric trim, being
the rubber style not adequate.
Very good and well described the work on the stabilizer.Will be the
first work when the weather gets worst. Now we are in a wonderful Indian
Summer (here named St. Martin's Summer)
I checked the response, pitching the plane and the result is out of
expectations.
The fugoide seems to increase, instead of decreasing.
The suggestions for the rudder cable are to be copied.
Thank you for the whole work you made.
Best regards
Luigi
_____
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list@matronics.com
Inviato: Marted=C3=AC 29 Novembre 2011 20:28
Oggetto: RE: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in
England!
Hi Luigi, apologies, a busy few days.
Pitch stability, on my Esqual there was a few things making the aircraft
unstable and I needed to modifications to get positive stability. That
is a basic LAA requirement for any aircraft that goes on a UK permit to
fly with them.
Firstly the bungee trim, bungee trim promotes instability, the trim
force is constant set by the rubber tension, the aerodynamic forces are
not, pitch nose down and the force on the elevator is greater so the
trim is now out of balance and down she goes.
I got rid of the bungee trim by fitting the Lightning electric trim
upgrade kit and things improved, she would still speed up when pitched
forward but the speed stabilised at about 125 knots (descending) instead
of a constant continual speed increase.
So more was needed and it was Arion that pointed out the solution
(thanks Nick). What I needed was a heavier tail when the speed
increased=C3=A2=82=AC=C2to lift the nose. So I lifted the back of
the horizontal stabiliser up about 5 mm. This gave the
=C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cheavier tail=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 I needed and
now when pitched nose down the speed increases and then the nose comes
up and it slows and then it recovers to the trimmed state.
Regarding the flaps, with full flap the pitch authority was poor,
limiting the travel to 21 degrees (maximum was 26 degrees/ 40 degrees to
the horizontal) recovered some of the authority. My Esqual has the HUGE
flaps and testing with the LAA chief engineer he showed me how
ineffectual the elevator was in an approach configuration. My main
concern was being able to pitch the aircraft down if a gust lifted the
nose and it was clear a little more authority was needed.
Finally, something I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t mention was the stall
strips, I was asked to fit these to give some buffet and warning of
impending stall. I got some for a Technam and these did the job nicely,
they haven=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t effected anything performance or
stall wise but they do rattle the stick and shake the plane.
I have sent you the job sheets I produced for the LAA submission, if
anyone else wants a look (they have photos) please send me an E mail.
Still have the engine issues and I am really fed up with Jabiru and
their approach to engine development. I wish I had a late solid lifter
3300, in my opinion this is the
=C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cclassic=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 and until they sort
out the debacle they created with Hydraulic tappets I feel they have
ruined a very good engine.
I still haven=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t got the
=C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cfull=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 permit but hope that
will be a formality when I have got the engine shook down after the
recent strip down. The 37 hour strip down which I
didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t expect to have to do.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di
napoli
Sent: 25 November 2011 07:24
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in
England!
Ciao Clive.
The report you made will be more helpful if you add some info regarding
the way you correct the pitch stability.
I noted this on my Esqual and I am not very happy with the answer I
have.
Firstly you have to report, please , the different CG location you
checked, and if the answer is the same.
Than whatever you done to improve the whole system.
A brief description of the travel of the elevator and the maximum
extension fo the flap to remain inside the elevator authority.
I believe this informations will be very important for the whole
Esqual/Lightning family.
Particularly if experienced under the supervision of a qualified team
..
Many thanks,
Luigi
_____
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list@matronics.com
Inviato: Venerd=C3=83=C2=AC 25 Novembre 2011 0:38
Oggetto: RE: Lightning-List: First UK registered Esqual flies in
England!
Thanks guys, appreciate the words. Still some way to go with the engine
though the plane is sweet.
Two main changes required by the LAA:
Pitch stability, my Esqual is now stable in pitch. Push the stick
forward (and let got) and she speeds up and then picks her own nose up
and slows down, shortly after she=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s back in trim.
It used to head for the deck or reach for the clouds.
Flap travel, full flap and the elevator didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t do
much at all, you could push and pull and the nose stayed the same.
Not where you would want to be on a gusty day, flap is now limited to
where elevator still has effect. If you have a big flapped Esqual
it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s the third hole you would need to use
(shortest).
Engine wise I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m considering going back to solid
lifter. The engine seems marginal on oil and after losing compression
with what I think was over extended lifters (at 37 hours)
I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m beginning to think the solid lifter (standard
cam followers) is the way to go. More research needed, getting some
great info from about the world.
It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a shame that Jabiru messed about with what
was a good engine=C3=A2=82=AC=C2..
Regards, Clive
P.S. hope to get an air borne shot before long, that is if I can do more
than a circuit with heading back to land.
P.P.S, watch out for the oversized guides, I
wouldn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t have known if the compressions had
stayed OK.
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| Subject: | Running tank dry |
Last July I purchased Jim Johannes's beautiful Lightning from his estate. I now
have 32 hrs and 77 landings, it just gets better!
I'm writing to ask the experience of the group in running one tank dry. How long
does it take to restart after you switch to the other tank? Does one need
to use the boost pump?
My fuel selector does not have a "both" position.
Thanks to all who take the time to answer.
Bob Belshe
N563J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359983#359983
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