Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:31 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (Gerd Nowack)
2. 01:58 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (James, Clive R)
3. 02:21 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (Geoff Eather)
4. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (Tex Mantell)
5. 11:00 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (Bernard Melendez, Jr.)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear shimmy (Gerd Nowack)
7. 10:14 PM - Re: Landing gear shimmy (Jaythree)
8. 11:04 PM - Official Lightning-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
9. 11:13 PM - Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
Dave
One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe in.
Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a major role,
too.
I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight pointer from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the tail and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0deg toe in by measuring from center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk where I later put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily calculate the distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator or the internet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm or an old slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in angle with the distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make another pencil mark there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in, of course. Which is where your laser pointer should point.
This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you can check
unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by just leaving
the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later measurements.
Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of course
no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all might
get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and the non-shakers
and maybe get a hint.
Gerd
> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> Earl
> This is certainly not a new subject. I built my Esqual in 05 and it has
> 810 hrs on it. Let me tell u what I have tried.
> 1. clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
> best
> 2. epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
> 3. epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
> 4. wrapping legs with fiberglass
> 5. balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants
> 6. remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
> this helped but did not cure it
> 7. balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
> balancer, spinning tires on aircraft
> 8. had video taken in 05 found it to be in mains not nose
> wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
> but did not fix problem
> 9. bought the best tires
> 10. replace all rims and brakes
>
> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that worked
> for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small rims. Now I
> have no shimmy
> Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy also
>
> good luck
>
> Dave McCorquodale
> 167DM
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
>
> So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that have no
> wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
>
> Earl Ferguson
> Kit # 5
>
> In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
> I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pants play
> an important role in the shimmy drama:
>
>
>
Message 2
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
Gerd, I think it's a very relevant point.
I did find it difficult to get the angle from the brake discs as they are on wuss.
With any toe in or out the wheels will try and get away from each other or
get closer to each other, that is until the grip from the tyres gives way and
then they will re-just. Just what you need to set up some stability.
The other thing I wondered about was the bolting of the legs into the central beam.
I have two bolts, one as high as I could get it and one as low as I could
get it. Along with splay from the toe in or out we have twist in the gear leg.
The bolting can only help this. What is the standard for the bolting? Two bolts
what size? What sort of fit is the leg in the socket? Anything else?
Regards, Clive
P.S. I dont have the shimmy thankfully though I don't know why, Esqual from 2003
with Arion legs from 2009
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerd Nowack
Sent: 01 June 2012 09:30
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
--> <nowacklinden@gmx.de>
Dave
One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe in.
Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a major role,
too.
I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight pointer from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the tail and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0deg toe in by measuring from center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk where I later put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily calculate the distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator or the internet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm or an old slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in angle with the distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make another pencil mark there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in, of course. Which is where your laser pointer should point.
This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you can check
unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by just leaving
the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later measurements.
Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of course
no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all might
get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and the non-shakers
and maybe get a hint.
Gerd
> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> Earl
> This is certainly not a new subject. I built my Esqual in 05 and it
> has
> 810 hrs on it. Let me tell u what I have tried.
> 1. clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
> best
> 2. epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
> 3. epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
> 4. wrapping legs with fiberglass
> 5. balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants 6.
> remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
> this helped but did not cure it
> 7. balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
> balancer, spinning tires on aircraft 8. had video taken in 05
> found it to be in mains not nose
> wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
> but did not fix problem
> 9. bought the best tires
> 10. replace all rims and brakes
>
> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that
> worked for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small
> rims. Now I have no shimmy Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy
> also
>
> good luck
>
> Dave McCorquodale
> 167DM
>
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
>
> So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that have
> no wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
>
> Earl Ferguson
> Kit # 5
>
> In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
> I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pants
> play an important role in the shimmy drama:
>
>
>
Message 3
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
Gerd,
That's an awfully complex way to adjust wheel alignment.
Jason from Arion has a much simpler method (no chalk, plumbs, rulers, lasers or
calculators!!). He showed me this when I was there last year in the builder assist
program.
I did speak with Mark some time ago and he was hoping to include this method in
the next Newsletter.
It goes something like this:
The wheel axels are hollow and perfectly perpendicular to the direction of travel.
Sooo.......
Simply insert a tight fitting dowel into each axel such that the dowels meet in
the centre of the plane under the fuselage (I removed the inside locating bolt
of the axel to allow the dowel to fit further in the axel to be sure it was
a perfect "extension" of the axel)
It is then easy to get a perfect zero toe just by eyeballing the dowels while twisting
the gear legs.
To be more accurate - mount a string line across the plane on the wheel pant mounting
brackets and align the dowels parallel to the string line.
To easy?
If you wanted toe in or toe out then that would be a fairly simple calculation
along the line you have mentioned.
Mine is set to zero toe and I have not noticed any shimmy (but I've only done 5
hours)
Cheers
Geoff Eather (Kit 127) Australia
On 01/06/2012, at 6:29 PM, Gerd Nowack wrote:
>
> Dave
>
> One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe in.
> Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a major
role, too.
> I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight pointer from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the tail and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0deg toe in by measuring from center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk where I later put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily calculate the distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator or the internet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm or an old slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in angle with the distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make another pencil mark there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in, of course. Which is where your laser pointer should point.
> This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you can check
unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by just leaving
the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later measurements.
> Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of course
no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
>
> Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all might
get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and the non-shakers
and maybe get a hint.
>
> Gerd
>
>
>
>
>> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
>> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
>> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
>> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
>> Earl
>> This is certainly not a new subject. I built my Esqual in 05 and it has
>> 810 hrs on it. Let me tell u what I have tried.
>> 1. clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
>> best
>> 2. epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
>> 3. epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
>> 4. wrapping legs with fiberglass
>> 5. balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants
>> 6. remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
>> this helped but did not cure it
>> 7. balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
>> balancer, spinning tires on aircraft
>> 8. had video taken in 05 found it to be in mains not nose
>> wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
>> but did not fix problem
>> 9. bought the best tires
>> 10. replace all rims and brakes
>>
>> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that worked
>> for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small rims. Now I
>> have no shimmy
>> Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy also
>>
>> good luck
>>
>> Dave McCorquodale
>> 167DM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
>> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>>
>>
>> So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that have no
>> wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
>>
>> Earl Ferguson
>> Kit # 5
>>
>> In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
>> I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pants play
>> an important role in the shimmy drama:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
Gerd, great idea. I did very same when I built mine 4 years ago. I will
measure again and send in the results. I have very little shimmey at about
20 miles an hour and only rarely. But its still bothers me when it dose
happen. But getting everyones alignment figures might help find the cure.
Tex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerd Nowack" <nowacklinden@gmx.de>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
> Dave
>
> One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe
> in.
> Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a
> major role, too.
> I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight
> pointer from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the
> tail and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0deg toe in by
> measuring from center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk
> where I later put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily
> calculate the distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator
> or the internet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm
> or an old slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in
> angle with the distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make
> another pencil mark there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in,
> of course. Which is where your laser pointer should point.
> This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you can
> check unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by just
> leaving the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later
> measurements.
> Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of
> course no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
>
> Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all
> might get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and
> the non-shakers and maybe get a hint.
>
> Gerd
>
>
>> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
>> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
>> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
>> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
>> Earl
>> This is certainly not a new subject. I built my Esqual in 05 and it has
>> 810 hrs on it. Let me tell u what I have tried.
>> 1. clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
>> best
>> 2. epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
>> 3. epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
>> 4. wrapping legs with fiberglass
>> 5. balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants
>> 6. remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
>> this helped but did not cure it
>> 7. balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
>> balancer, spinning tires on aircraft
>> 8. had video taken in 05 found it to be in mains not nose
>> wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
>> but did not fix problem
>> 9. bought the best tires
>> 10. replace all rims and brakes
>>
>> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that worked
>> for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small rims. Now I
>> have no shimmy
>> Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy also
>>
>> good luck
>>
>> Dave McCorquodale
>> 167DM
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>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
>> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>>
>>
>> So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that have no
>> wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
>>
>> Earl Ferguson
>> Kit # 5
>>
>> In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
>> I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pants play
>> an important role in the shimmy drama:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
I used 1 1/2 degrees of toe in, even though the builder's manual calls for
only one degree. So, we shall see how this works out. But my method of putt
ing in the toe-in is slightly different from Gerd's
I purchased two 4 foot lengths of 1/2" diameter aluminum rod. I then insert
ed them into the main gear axles so that they met in the middle. Of course,
I had to remove the 1/4" bolt that holds the axle to the gear leg and had
the plane on the gear and in a level attitude.
Then, by using trigonometry, I can determine the lengths and angles of a tr
iangle and know how much to twist the wheel to match the short side of the
triangle (1 1/2 degrees) in the middle, under the fuselage. I then drilled
the gear socket on that gear, matched the other gear's twist so the rod end
s matched, and drilled the other gear socket. Schmart them Chinese, huh? Ho
pe this helps you guys.
Bernardo Melendez, kit #110
--- On Fri, 6/1/12, Gerd Nowack <nowacklinden@gmx.de> wrote:
From: Gerd Nowack <nowacklinden@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
Dave
One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe in
.
Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a majo
r role, too.
I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight point
er from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the tail
and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0 deg toe in by measuring fr
om center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk where I late
r put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily calculate th
e distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator- or the in
ternet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm- or an ol
d slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in angle with t
he distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make another pencil ma
rk there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in, of course. Which i
s where your laser pointer should point.
This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you can
check unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by just
leaving the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later measureme
nts.
Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of co
urse no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all mi
ght get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and the
non-shakers and maybe get a hint.
Gerd---
> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> Earl
> This is certainly not a new subject.- I built my Esqual in 05 and it ha
s
> 810 hrs on it.- Let me tell u what I have tried.
> 1.- clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
>- - - best
> 2.- epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
> 3.- epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
> 4.- wrapping legs with fiberglass
> 5.- balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants
> 6.- remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
>- - - this helped but did not cure it
> 7.- balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
>- - - balancer, spinning tires on aircraft
> 8.- had video taken in 05 found it to be in mains not nose
>- - - wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
>- - - but did not fix problem
> 9.---bought the best tires
> 10. replace all rims and brakes
>
> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that worked
> for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small rims.- Now
I
> have no shimmy
> Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy also
>
> good luck
>
> Dave McCorquodale
> 167DM
>
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>-------- Original Message -----
>---From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
>---To: lightning-list@matronics.com
>---Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
>---Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
>
>
>---So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that hav
e no
> wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
>
>---Earl Ferguson
>---Kit # 5
>
>---In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
>- ---I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pan
ts play
> an important role in the shimmy drama:
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 6
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
Geoff,
Yes, you`re right, that sounds a lot simpler!
I guess this is another example of our friends at Arion finding a way to do something
a little better or easier but forgetting to tell us homebuilders about
it....
My initial problem was to do the gear alignment in my Aerospace ( 20 by
14ft). I thought I found a neat solution here.
But, hey, since its so simple to do the toe in measuring, I hope we all can get
some data collected for one more step to a shakefree Lightning for all. Maybe
somebody even feels a responsibility to do the (anonymized?) collecting of data....
- Yes, another row of dots here!
Oh, another thought: have you all noticed a change in shimmy or shimmy frequency
with a heavier vs lighter aircraft?
Gerd
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:21:24 +1000
> Von: Geoff Eather <geather@bigpond.net.au>
> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> <geather@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Gerd,
>
> That's an awfully complex way to adjust wheel alignment.
> Jason from Arion has a much simpler method (no chalk, plumbs, rulers,
> lasers or calculators!!). He showed me this when I was there last year in the
> builder assist program.
> I did speak with Mark some time ago and he was hoping to include this
> method in the next Newsletter.
> It goes something like this:
> The wheel axels are hollow and perfectly perpendicular to the direction of
> travel. Sooo.......
> Simply insert a tight fitting dowel into each axel such that the dowels
> meet in the centre of the plane under the fuselage (I removed the inside
> locating bolt of the axel to allow the dowel to fit further in the axel to be
> sure it was a perfect "extension" of the axel)
> It is then easy to get a perfect zero toe just by eyeballing the dowels
> while twisting the gear legs.
> To be more accurate - mount a string line across the plane on the wheel
> pant mounting brackets and align the dowels parallel to the string line.
> To easy?
> If you wanted toe in or toe out then that would be a fairly simple
> calculation along the line you have mentioned.
> Mine is set to zero toe and I have not noticed any shimmy (but I've only
> done 5 hours)
>
> Cheers
>
> Geoff Eather (Kit 127) Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/06/2012, at 6:29 PM, Gerd Nowack wrote:
>
> <nowacklinden@gmx.de>
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > One important, maybe crucial detail I find in your list missing: the toe
> in.
> > Former statements in this group have mentioned it, and IMHO it plays a
> major role, too.
> > I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2 deg, measured with a laser gun sight
> pointer from the brake disks back to a dedicate plank that I put under the
> tail and centered with a plumb. I made markings for 0deg toe in by measuring
> from center of fuse (plumb again) to the point of the brake disk where I
> later put the laser pointer. This mark is toe in 0, you can easily calculate
> the distance from 0 to 1 or 1/2 deg with a scientific calculator or the
> internet( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/math/Tan_Calculator.htm or an old
> slide rule by multiplying the tangent of your desired toe in angle with the
> distance from brake disk to measuring plank. Then make another pencil mark
> there - outboard of the 0-mark, when you want toe in, of course. Which is
> where your laser pointer should point.
> > This way you don`t have to make chalk lines all over the place and you
> can check unwanted airplane movement that would spoil your measurement by
> just leaving the plumb in place. And you can keep the plank for later
> measurements.
> > Coming to think of it : I made my adjustment without the wings on and of
> course no load , and should measure the toe in again with wings and fuel.
> >
> > Please excuse if i sound teaching.I write all this because I hope we all
> might get some data basis. Then we can compare toe in of the shakers and
> the non-shakers and maybe get a hint.
> >
> > Gerd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Datum: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:58:21 -0500
> >> Von: "Dave Mccorquodale" <corky@hbci.com>
> >> An: lightning-list@matronics.com
> >> Betreff: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> >
> >> Earl
> >> This is certainly not a new subject. I built my Esqual in 05 and it
> has
> >> 810 hrs on it. Let me tell u what I have tried.
> >> 1. clamping "broom handles" to the legs-this worked the
> >> best
> >> 2. epoxy aluminum rods to the legs
> >> 3. epoxy fiberglass rods to the legs
> >> 4. wrapping legs with fiberglass
> >> 5. balance wheel pants- still have weights inside pants
> >> 6. remachined new struts a couple thousands thicker
> >> this helped but did not cure it
> >> 7. balanced my tires in water, with a shaft in wheel, buble
> >> balancer, spinning tires on aircraft
> >> 8. had video taken in 05 found it to be in mains not nose
> >> wheel after I built a springed nose gear, this worked well
> >> but did not fix problem
> >> 9. bought the best tires
> >> 10. replace all rims and brakes
> >>
> >> I only am trying to save u guys a lot of work, the only thing that
> worked
> >> for me was finding a spin balancer that would fit the small rims. Now
> I
> >> have no shimmy
> >> Flat spots on the tires cause it to shimmy also
> >>
> >> good luck
> >>
> >> Dave McCorquodale
> >> 167DM
> >>
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> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM
> >> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:53 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Landing gear shimmy
> >>
> >>
> >> So how do you explain the shimmy in Lightnings like mine that have no
> >> wheel pants? BTW, It was less noticeable when the aircraft was new.
> >>
> >> Earl Ferguson
> >> Kit # 5
> >>
> >> In a message dated 5/29/2012 9:31:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> nowacklinden@gmx.de writes:
> >> I can assist the voiced opinion that the unbalanced wheel pants play
> >> an important role in the shimmy drama:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Landing gear shimmy |
This forum is a gold mine! I'll start by confessing that with only six hours and
twelve landings on my new Esqual (with Lightning upgrades) I managed to bend
the nosegear leg on a soft turf runway. I bought the Esqual from the builder,
who did a magnificent job and I feel worse about dinging his craftsmanship than
anything else right now.
But to the point...shimmy. I did experience it on all landings at 35-45 mph rollout.
Although the consensus on this forum is that mains gearlegs and/or alignment
seem to be the gremlin, I'm wondering if a significant factor may b the angled
nosegear trailing fork. Angling the fork aft-down creates a geometry in
which the weight on the swivel wants to rotate the forks forward. It's like a
ball on a ramp. I have never seen castoring trailing fork nosegear where the fork
was not parallel to the ground, eg., Grumman. I don't understand the purpose
of the unstable geometry on the Esqual/Lightning. At 35-45 mph, the balancing
forces of weight, fairing weathervaning and flywheel momentum of the nosewheel
would tend to create a perfect scenario for shimmy. Shimmy up front of course
would translate to the mains. Any comments, positive or negative, appreciated.
Bill Strahan wrote:
> Hey, I've talked about this before, haven't I? I've had 3 big changes I wanted
to make for a long time: 1) Fix fuel distribution issue. 2) Make some short
wingtips. 3) Eliminate the landing gear shimmy.
>
> I installed the flow straightener tube and vanes that Nick sent me about a year
ago. That did an amazing job. Perfect? No. Good enough that I'm not considering
installing fuel injection? Yep. So #1 is adressed.
>
> I still need to make short wingtips, but my passenger yesterday asked "Why does
it shake like that after you land?" GRRRRR.
>
> So I bought an axe handle and started chatting with neighbors here on the airport
about cutting and shaping it. I figured I'd buy a 1.125" ball cutter and
put a radius in it. Kept putting that off because it didn't sound like fun.
>
> Then it hit me: I really just need it stiffer in fore/aft flexing. And whatever
stiffener I make needs to glue to the gear leg so it needs to be a very good
fit. Nothing fits better than fiberglass built in-place!
>
> I decided I would tape off the gear and lay up 3 laminations of 7oz cloth directly
onto the back of the gear leg. I did that tonight, and it's curing. Tomorrow
I'll sand the back of that and use some flock and 5 minute epoxy to attach
a 1/8" thick piece of balsa wood that extends about 1.5" behind the gear.
Once that's cured I'll lay up about 6 layers of cloth on both sides of the balsa,
overlapping onto the section that's on the gear. So the gear shouldn't end
up much stiffer since it only has 1/8" thickness between the 6 layer lamination,
but it should be SUPER stiff across the 1.5" section.
>
> So I should get that done tomorrow, and let it cure overnight. Then I'll pop
it off the gear, trim it, and glue it onto the landing gear leg.
>
> Any thoughts? Nick, any suggestions on the best adhesive to attach to the gear?
Should I remove the paint or glue to the paint?
>
> When I glue it I'll put a couple of zip ties around it to hold it while it cures,
and leave them on just in case it ever comes loose.
>
> Fingers crossed, I can report in a few days that I have eliminated the dang shimmy
once and for all.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374512#374512
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Official Lightning-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Lightning-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Lightning-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Lightning-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Lightning-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Lightning-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Lightning-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
lightning-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "lightning-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Lightning-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Lightning-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/lightning-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Lightning-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Lightning-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Lightning-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Lightning-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Lightning-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Lightning-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Lightning-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Lightning-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Lightning-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Lightning-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Lightning-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Lightning
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Lightning-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Lightning-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Lightning-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Lightning-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Lightning-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Lightning-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Lightning-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Lightning-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Lightning-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Lightning-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Lightning-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Lightning-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Lightning-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
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