---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/09/12: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Lightning fly-in October 6th (Nick Otterback) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: Lightning fly-in October 6th (James, Clive R) 3. 07:00 AM - Re: Lightning fly-in October 6th (n5pb@AOL.COM) 4. 02:48 PM - Re: Esqual Stability (luigi di napoli) 5. 02:49 PM - Check out Arion aircraft on FACEBOOK (Nick Otterback) 6. 03:12 PM - Re: Check out Arion aircraft on FACEBOOK (Mark Stauffer) 7. 10:27 PM - Re: Esqual Stability (James, Clive R) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:56 AM PST US From: Nick Otterback Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning fly-in October 6th Heh bear, The flyin with be the first weekend in october which is the 6th, a saturday a s always. I will check with mark on the cuff price when i get in today. I think we set tle on about $1250 for the parts, they arnt cheap being out of carbonfiber b ut way easier and less time consuming than new tails. Nick Sent from my pocket On Aug 8, 2012, at 9:25 PM, n5pb@AOL.COM wrote: > Nick, have you decided on a price for the cuff? > also, do you plan on having the Lightning fly-in again this year? > Thanks > Bear > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Otterback > To: lightning-list > Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 7:17 pm > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue > > We have developed a carbon cuff that will fit over the exsisting tail. Is i s very light weight and will not require any disassembly. We are getting a p rototype set here to install and write and install guide for. The AZ dealer s hould have his set now to start installation on his demo. So i would expect b y the end of the month we will have everything set in stone for the retrofit .. > > Nick > > Sent from my pocket > > On Aug 8, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Geoff Eather wrote: > >> Nick, >> >> Reading the article in Kit Planes begs the question: Is the new tail des ign going to be available as an add on kit/ upgrade or would the entire hori zontal stabiliser need to be replaced in order to achieve the increased stab ility? >> >> Geoff Eather (Kit 127) >> >> >> On 08/08/2012, at 1:40 AM, Nick Otterback wrote: >> >>> Here is the article in PDF form for those of you that have not read it y et. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Nick Otterback >>> Arion Aircraft LLC >>> R&D Technical Support >>> 931-680-1781 >>> >>> <_export_sites_kitplanes_02_data_media_pdfs_Lightning_Strikes_Again.pdf> >> >> >> >> ========= >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List >> ========= >> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========= >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >> ========= >> > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning fly-in October 6th From: "James, Clive R" SGkgTmljaywgaXQgaXMgYSB2ZXJ5IG5lYXQgc29sdXRpb24uIA0KDQpJIGtub3cgd2hhdCB5b3Ug bWVhbiBhYm91dCB0aGUgY2FyYm9uIGZpYnJlLCBJIHVzZWQgaXQgaW4gdGhlIGFpbGVyb24gc3Vw cG9ydCBzdHJlbmd0aGVuaW5nIG9uIHRoZSBFc3F1YWwgYW5kIGV2ZW4gYXMgc2NyYXAgY3V0IG9m ZnMgaXQgd2FzIGRhZnQgbW9uZXkuDQoNCldvdWxkIHRoZSBjdWZmcyBmaXQgdGhlIEVzcXVhbCB0 YWlsPw0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLCBDbGl2ZQ0KDQogDQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLWxpZ2h0bmluZy1saXN0 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Looking forward to the flyin. Bear -----Original Message----- From: Nick Otterback Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 6:52 am Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning fly-in October 6th Heh bear, The flyin with be the first weekend in october which is the 6th, a saturday as always. I will check with mark on the cuff price when i get in today. I think we se ttle on about $1250 for the parts, they arnt cheap being out of carbonfiber but way easier and less time consuming than new tails. Nick Sent from my pocket On Aug 8, 2012, at 9:25 PM, n5pb@AOL.COM wrote: Nick, have you decided on a price for the cuff? also, do you plan on having the Lightning fly-in again this year? Thanks Bear -----Original Message----- From: Nick Otterback Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 7:17 pm Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue We have developed a carbon cuff that will fit over the exsisting tail. Is i s very light weight and will not require any disassembly. We are getting a prototype set here to install and write and install guide for. The AZ deale r should have his set now to start installation on his demo. So i would exp ect by the end of the month we will have everything set in stone for the re trofit. Nick Sent from my pocket On Aug 8, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Geoff Eather wrote: Nick, Reading the article in Kit Planes begs the question: Is the new tail desig n going to be available as an add on kit/ upgrade or would the entire horiz ontal stabiliser need to be replaced in order to achieve the increased stab ility? Geoff Eather (Kit 127) On 08/08/2012, at 1:40 AM, Nick Otterback wrote: Here is the article in PDF form for those of you that have not read it yet. thanks Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft LLC R&D Technical Support 931-680-1781 <_export_sites_kitplanes_02_data_media_pdfs_Lightning_Strikes_Again.pdf> ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank"http://www.matronic s.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:19 PM PST US From: luigi di napoli Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual Stability Hi Clive,=0Athe problems in Italy are always the same.=0AChanges =C2-the boss only to listen that the situation is no good and we need more sacrific es.=0A=C2-The orchestra is new but the music is the same.=0AThank you for the good report, and for the list of improvements done.=0AI need to know,w henever possible, the size of elevator trim.Mine is around 9 inches by 4 an d I believe that with full flaps the authority is not sufficient=0Abeing th e plane still to heavy with a lot of nose-up trim.My trim is electric, =C2 -with Ray-Allen servo. For climb, cruise and initial approach the job is correct, not for=C2-=0Athe landing phase.So I decided to increase the tri m size, but to avoid to make experiments is better to ask to whom experienc ed it.=0AIf you believe to have the right size, please tell me so I may inc rease it.=0AThank again for the info given to the community, with your good report.=0ACiao,=0ALuigi=0AEsqual I-9854 =C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A__________ ______________________=0A Da: "James, Clive R" =0AA: lightning-list@matronics.com =0AInviato: Marted=C3=AC 7 Agosto 2012 21:30 =0AOggetto: Lightning-List: Esqual Stability=0A =0A=0AHi Luigi, I am good. The weather in the UK has finally improved and I=99ve been doing some good flying. =0ABack offshore now in the North sea and hoping the weather will still have some summer in it when I get back next time.=0AMostly the f lying was in the Jabiru as the Esqual is still on a test permit and so cann ot go further than 25miles past 3 airfields on the East side of England (st ill 60 miles to play in).=0A=C2-=0AThe changes I made for the stability w ere:=0ANew engine mount from Arion that moved the engine forward 18mm (I ha d to buy new cowlings but I wanted the Lightning ones for the cooling anywa y).=0ANick recommended I tip the front of the tail plane down by 3/16 =9D, this was about 3 degrees and I managed to get that movement by lifting the back.=0AI fitted a new =98flap type=99 trim tab with elect ric servo and removed the bungee trim, this was a Lightning retrofit kit tr im kit though I did make the flap a bit bigger.=0ADuring the test flying I limited the flap travel to 22 degrees to help with the trim on approach (as mentioned in the kit planes article for the Lighting which was interesting ).=0AIt was still too heavy under a FWD C of G =C2-so when the evaluation flying was being done for the LAA it was limited some more. =0ANow at 16 d egrees max flap it is hands off on approach unless it is solo with low fuel . Minimum stall is still 35 knots=0AAll round much nicer to fly but still v ery sporty.=0AThe flight test report was done by an independent test pilot but he was very happy and has sent a positive recommendation. =0AThe flight test was to CS-VLA (you can find that on the net). It was great fun as I w as the =98talking ballast=99 I really saw what the plane could do.=0AI am just waiting to get feedback on that report and hope to have a f ull PoF soon.=0AI will send you the report directly. =0AThe picture is the test pilot about to do the solo sortie. =0AHe was mega experienced, graduat e of the Empire Test Pilot program, many years ago now as he is 83.=0AI hop e I can still fly like he does when I=99m that age.=0A=C2-=0AI trus t all is well in Italy and you are flying your Esqual regularly (after you pay your luxury tax to the idiots in charge!).=0A=C2-=0ABest Regards, Cli ve=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mail to:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli =0ASent: 07 August 2012 19:40=0ATo: lightning-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue=0A=C2-=0AHi Clive,=0Ahow a re you ?=0AI read about the Esqual stability and I am curious to know which improvements the Esqual needs.=0ADid you calculate a good C&G to improve t he phugoid ? And what about the max flap setting ?=0AI remember that you, s ome time ago, sent a mail with something inherent but forgot it.=0ADo you h ave any news ? And what about the PoF for your bird ?=0AWaiting your news b est regards and enjoy your vacation.=0ALuigi=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0A=0ADa:"James, Clive R" =0AA: lightning-list@matronics.com =0AInviato: Marted=C3=AC 7 Agosto 2012 2 0:05=0AOggetto: RE: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue=0A=C2-=0ASt ill in your debt for the fix on the Esqual ! =0A=C2-=0APermit is getting closer but not yet got my hands on it.=0A=C2-=0ARegards, Clive=0A=C2- =0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-li ghtning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback=0ASent: 07 A ugust 2012 18:57=0ATo: lightning-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Lightnin g-List: Kitplanes September Issue=0A=C2-=0AThanks for the kind words. The company is not mine it is Petes. We are partners along with a few other in vestors. Pete simply allows me the freedom to further design as needed.=C2 -=0A=C2-=0AThanks=0ANick=0ASent from my pocket=C2-=0A=0AOn Aug 7, 201 2, at 11:53 AM, "James, Clive R" wrote:=0AReads wel l, as someone who has gone through the stability and trim issues with the E squal I can appreciate the improvements.=0A>=C2-=0A>So now the Esqual is Swedish? And you didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t crack a mould off the fusela ge? What=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s that smell? I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll b et Francesc is turning is his grave.=0A>=C2-=0A>Good to see you aren=C3 =A2=82=AC=84=A2t sitting on your hands, and nice to see Pete gave you the company!=0A>=C2-=0A>Regards, Clive=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>From:owner -lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@ma tronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback=0A>Sent: 07 August 2012 16:40=0A>T o: Lightning-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Lightning-List: Kitplanes Septe mber Issue=0A>=C2-=0A>Here is the article in PDF form for those of you th at have not read it yet.=0A>=C2-=0A>thanks=0A>=C2-=0A>Nick Otterback=0A >Arion Aircraft LLC=0A>R&D Technical Support=0A>931-680-1781=0A>=C2-=0A> =C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>================== ==================0A>>http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List=0A>============= =======================0A>ums.m atronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>========== =0A>http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contrib ution=0A>====================== Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse=0A http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Li=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3 =82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82 =C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0Ahttp: //forums.matronics.com Subject: Lightning-List: Check out Arion aircraft on FACEBOOK Heh all you computer savvy Lightning folks out there. Since mark and I have had a hard time getting a newsletter out on a monthly basis, very busy here. We are finishing one up and probably will do it every other month or quarterly not sure yet we decided to try another avenue for instant updates Lightning stuff. We have Started a FaceBook page. Search Arion Aircraft LLC and I think Like it or Friend it not sure maybe Mark can fill in here. Anyways it is an open page and everyone can post to it, discussions, photos, and videos. We have started uploading a few things to see how it works. What we can do is take flight videos "demos" so to speak, fly the pattern and show techniques. Or even teach how to use the EFIS systems in flight. Whatever you want to see we can do. This does take a little time but since it is stuff we are doing anyways uploading small tech things or videos are quick and easy during the day. Mark has bought a GoPro HD camera that we will be using for videos. Should be fun, And if you can't figure it our ask your children or Grand Children that can help! Thanks Nick ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:11 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Check out Arion aircraft on FACEBOOK The Facebook address is: http://www.facebook.com/flylightning Let me know if you have any problems with the link. I don't think you can "Friend" a business but you sure can like us!!! J I'll be posting Oshkosh photos soon and some pictures that we took in the shop today. I believe you may also post pictures as well. Someone try it and let's see how it goes. It will take me a bit to get up to speed with this stuff, there's just so much to learn and another "language". Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 4:49 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Check out Arion aircraft on FACEBOOK Heh all you computer savvy Lightning folks out there. Since mark and I have had a hard time getting a newsletter out on a monthly basis, very busy here. We are finishing one up and probably will do it every other month or quarterly not sure yet we decided to try another avenue for instant updates Lightning stuff. We have Started a FaceBook page. Search Arion Aircraft LLC and I think Like it or Friend it not sure maybe Mark can fill in here. Anyways it is an open page and everyone can post to it, discussions, photos, and videos. We have started uploading a few things to see how it works. What we can do is take flight videos "demos" so to speak, fly the pattern and show techniques. Or even teach how to use the EFIS systems in flight. Whatever you want to see we can do. This does take a little time but since it is stuff we are doing anyways uploading small tech things or videos are quick and easy during the day. Mark has bought a GoPro HD camera that we will be using for videos. Should be fun, And if you can't figure it our ask your children or Grand Children that can help! Thanks Nick ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:16 PM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual Stability From: "James, Clive R" SGkgTHVpZ2ksIGZvciBhbGwgb2YgdXMgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aWxsIHRoZSBtdXNp YyBjaGFuZ2VzLCBpZiBpdCBldmVyIGRvZXMuDQoNCiANCg0KSSBtYWRlIHRoZSBuZXcgZmxhcCB0 d2ljZSB0aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwsIEkgd291bGQgZXN0aW1hdGUgMzUwbW0geCAx MDBtbS4gSSBhbSBvZmZzaG9yZSBhdCB0aGUgbW9tZW50IHNvIGNhbuKAmXQgbWVhc3VyZSBpdC4N Cg0KVGhlIE9yaWdpbmFsIHdhcyB0aGUgc2l6ZSBzdXBwbGllZCBieSBBcmlvbiBidXQgdGhhdCB3 YXMgZm9yIHRoZSBMaWdodG5pbmcgdGhhdCBkb2VzbuKAmXQgaGF2ZSBhcyBiaWcgZmxhcHMgYXMg dGhlIEVzcXVhbC4NCg0KIA0KDQpQaWN0dXJlcyBhdHRhY2hlZCwgSSBoYXZlIHRoZSBzYW1lIFJh eSBBbGxlbiBzZXJ2by4gVGhlIHRyaW0gaXMgb25seSBoYW5kcyBmcmVlIGRvd24gdG8gMTYgZGVn cmVlcyBmbGFwIGFuZ2xlLiBBYm92ZSB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIHN0aWxsIG5vc2UgaGVhdnkgZXZlbiBh dCBhZnQgQ29HLg0KDQpBYm92ZSAyMyBkZWdyZWVzIGFuZCB5b3Ugc3RhcnQgdG8gbG9zZSBlbGV2 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