Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:14 AM - Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall (James, Clive R)
2. 08:29 AM - Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall (Dennis W. Wilt)
3. 03:30 PM - Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall (Bill Strahan)
4. 11:54 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall (James, Clive R)
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| Subject: | Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall |
Grumman put the same stall strips on the Cheetah and Tiger.
Have a wonderful day,
Dennis
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 10:15 am
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall
Good info thanks Nick, and interesting. A couple of questions if you
=99ve a moment?
When I bought new U/C legs for my Esqual from you in 2009 what would you ha
ve supplied? Lightning gear or Esqual (=98something lighter in alloy
=99).
Are they physically the same size and so interchangeable?
Do you have any suggestions as to how I could change the gear leg material
to make the legs more springy? More forgiving of bumpy grass runways?
Wing drop at the stall.
Regarding the Esqual, I still have the aircraft on a test permit and the LA
A engineer is still not 100% happy with the performance. The final (I hope)
issue is wing drop at the stall. CS-VLA calls for less 15 degrees and duri
ng testing we were getting more than that. So we plan to do some more work
with stall strips. Currently I fitted a single strip, see attached. We
=99re going to try another one outboard. Appreciate comments anyone has
on the wing drop issue? There was talk of VGs but as I think they look awfu
l and spoil the clean lines of a wing I=99d like to avoid them.
Thanks, Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 12 September 2012 17:03
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Landing Gear and shimmy
I think you might mean springy not stiff. During drop test at gross weight,
we have nearly 6=9D deflection of the landing gear system. The littl
e tube in a tube is an easy way to check deflection, set against the ground
before the drop and see how far it gets displaced. Usually the bounce come
s from the nose gear return and the aircraft going back into a flight attit
ude with sufficient speed to fly.
Attached some pics for fun. The drop test were the funnest testing we did,
along with destructive testing of the wing.
Nick
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis W. Wilt
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Landing Gear and shimmy
My EA-B version of the LSA has the LSA gear just because they are supposed
to be a bit more sturdy. My only complaint with the lightning gear is that
it is not very forgiving on landing. It is pretty stiff, so if you happen
to land a little hard, you will bounce and that means a go around for me.
Some of you may be better at saving such a landing, but I choose to go aro
und and do it again, hopefully without the bounce.
I set my toe to 0 degrees without weight on the wheels and keep my air pres
sure around 25 psi. I have never had the shimmy.
Have a wonderful day,
Dennis
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Otterback <nick@flylightning.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 10:09 am
Subject: Lightning-List: Landing Gear and shimmy
The original esqual gear was a flat plate steel type which bolted to the fu
selage thru the 6 bolts holding the spar box in. the overturn angle of the
gear (how much it angled from the fuselage) was very steep. This transfers
more load to the attach points and surrounding structure because it wont fl
ex as much. The EXP tube gear has greater angle and less load transfer but
is more subject to shimmy being a round rod. The Lightning EXP gear is 7075
T6, plenty sturdy for the intended application. The Equal round gear is a d
ifferent type alloy, although I do not remember what, experience in the fie
ld says it=99s something lighter in alloy than the 7075T6.
A spring steel gear is not necessarily stronger than aluminum. The RV are s
pring steel an too subject to shimmy, I have experienced in a few of the R
V models I have flown. IT is just a matter of a round tube subject to it. T
he Steel has a higher frequency and may not exhibit a shimmy at the same sp
eed and aircraft weight of the aluminum. I have even experienced in a Rans
S7S with round tube gear, just at a lower speed around 12-15mph on roll out
.
What we have found works here, covered multiple times. Is about 1 degree to
e out on the EXP gear. This coupled with air-pressure in the 22-25psi range
with keep drag on the gear and minimize it from moving around . Higher air
-pressure just causes the tire to skip and shimmy better. Also it seems tha
t the Better tires help, I believe from the squared off tire tread they hav
e instead of the round tread.
If all of this does not help we have almost completely eliminated it on air
craft when bonding hardwood to the gear leg. Simply clamping the hard wood
to the Leg will not help. I have used wood like Oak. A piece of hard wood t
hat it fitted to within =C2=BC=9D of the bottom of the fuselage to th
e lower socket. Mill out one side =C2=BD round to fit the gear leg. The woo
d should be at least the 1=9D wide that the gear is, by about 2
=9D aft of it. Mill the trailing edge to fit under the leg fairing. Lightly
sand the aft side of the gear leg. Bond the gear leg to the back of the ge
ar leg with 24hr epoxy and flox, clamp in place to cure. After cure wrap th
e wood and leg with 10oz glass. The glass should be cut in sections the sam
e length as the hard wood by about 7=9D wide to completely wrap the g
ear. Also it is critical to cut these sections out of the glass cloth on a
45 degree bias to the weave. IF you simply use the glass in the direction o
f the weave it will not resist the fore and aft movement of the gear. I hav
e use about 4 layers of glass. I suppose if you wished 2 layers of carbon c
ut a laminated the same way should work.
The wood does stiffen the gear, but keeps the spring it needs, What the woo
d does is change the frequency that the gear shimmy=99s at and helps
dampen out any that may occur. Lighter or softer materials will not work. S
imply adding glass to the gear will not help.
As for the LSA wide track landing gear. We set the gear at 0 toe, straight
ahead, with the wings off the aircraft. Actually we set this with the spar
box out of the aircraft during the build process. With a little weight on t
he gear it may toe out slightly. We very rarely run into shimmy with the bi
g gear, if we do it usually goes back to over inflated tires, flat spots, o
r infrequent flying that flat spots the tires and creates a skip. The overt
urn angle of the LSA gear is much greater than the EXP gear. The LSA gear i
s 2.125=9D at the top and 1.25=9D at the bottom VS 1.375
=9D and 1=9D on the EXP gear just for FYI.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft LLC
R&D Technical Support
931-680-1781
nick@flylightning.net
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall |
dwwilt wrote:
> Grumman put the same stall strips on the Cheetah and Tiger.
>
> Have a wonderful day,
>
> Dennis
> N616DW (Arion Lightning (http://www.flylightning.net/)S/N 132)
>
>
>
> --
Yep. One on the inboard 3rd, one on the middle 3rd. No strip on the outer 3rd
of the wing panel. The one on the inboard 3rd is right at the front of the leading
edge. The middle strip is much further down, about where the leading edge
would be at a 15 degree angle of attack.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383010#383010
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall |
Thanks Bill, just surfing to buy some balsa wood
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Strahan
Sent: 13 September 2012 23:30
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Landing Gear and wing drop at the stall
dwwilt wrote:
> Grumman put the same stall strips on the Cheetah and Tiger.
>
> Have a wonderful day,
>
> Dennis
> N616DW (Arion Lightning (http://www.flylightning.net/)S/N 132)
>
>
>
> --
Yep. One on the inboard 3rd, one on the middle 3rd. No strip on the outer 3rd
of the wing panel. The one on the inboard 3rd is right at the front of the leading
edge. The middle strip is much further down, about where the leading edge
would be at a 15 degree angle of attack.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383010#383010
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