Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:23 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Archie)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/24/07 (John Markey)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Lee Sahr)
4. 08:53 AM - Re: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Ralph Finch)
5. 09:14 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (JOHN TIPTON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
We have been racing with both ethanol and methanol for years, and have not
heard of this.
As they are both hydroscopic, I do not see how they can layer out.
The only way I know of is through distillation.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
<lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
> before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
> flying yet......
>
> Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
>
> The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
> different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If
> you use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
> Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
> these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like you
> would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your airplane
> fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the rest as the
> ethanol has been removed.
>
> I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think
> that they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart
> that easy!
>
> I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and
> didn't find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
>
> Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet,
> someone with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then
> all we need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how
> much corn they put in it.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/24/07 |
Ralph asked:
"'m not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that they
call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that easy!"
Oh yes it will. The major drawback on this - what would you do with the contaminated
water? Also, there are additives put into car fuels, detergents, etc. as
there are additives for AvGas. I'm not clued into what the differences would
be, especially after you pull additives and ethanol out during the water separation.
What one could more safely do would be to separate out the water and blend the
petrol fraction with 100LL. Many old timer EAA'ers like to do this anyway with
Mogas and Avgas. My mechanic recommends 70% Mogas/25% Avgas, but i will bet this
is a WAG ratio.
John
LycomingEngines-List Digest Server <lycomingengines-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:44:40 PM PST US
From: "Ralph E. Capen"
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a different
specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you use more
water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too. Theoretically, take a
large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called these days), pour in a bunch
of water, let it settle, sump it out like you would if you were trying to get
a few drops of water out of your airplane fuel tanks (of course - more to be
safe), and go fly with the rest as the ethanol has been removed.
I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that they
call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that easy!
I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't find
any - it could (?) be safe to use.
Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone with
a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we need to
do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn they put in
it.
---------------------------------
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
Ethanol absorbs water. If it absorbs enough water it changes the density and falls
to the bottom of the tank. In the industry we call this phase separation.
Trust me you dont want to do this. I've been to many gas stations that has gotten
water in there tank. Most times they have to get rid of all the gas in the
tank because it changes the octane rating and the gas is no good.
Lee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Archie
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
We have been racing with both ethanol and methanol for years, and have not
heard of this.
As they are both hydroscopic, I do not see how they can layer out.
The only way I know of is through distillation.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
<lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
> before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
> flying yet......
>
> Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
>
> The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
> different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If
> you use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
> Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
> these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like you
> would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your airplane
> fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the rest as the
> ethanol has been removed.
>
> I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think
> that they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart
> that easy!
>
> I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and
> didn't find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
>
> Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet,
> someone with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then
> all we need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how
> much corn they put in it.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
The flip side of this question is, what exactly is bad about having ethanol
in aviation gasoline? In other words, can we design and build our
experimental airplanes so they use modern auto fuel as-is?
As an owner of an Alon Aircoupe with an autofuel STC--long before ethanol
was added--I've heard of these problems:
* Ethanol is very corrosive to some materials, including seals and some
metals?
* Ethanol readily absorbs water (or vice-versa), so the fuel could then
freeze easier (not in the tanks, but easier carb icing and perhaps in fuel
lines).
* Ethanol's unit heat energy is less than gasoline so you'll get less
performance.
* Any others?
Obviously autos have solved the corrosion problem, can't we do the same with
our experimentals? Greater propensity to freeze (if true, not sure about
this) could be handled with fuel injection and maybe insulated fuel lines
behind the firewall. Lack of performance is probably modest and not a great
concern.
Ralph Finch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
flying yet......
Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you
use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like you
would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your airplane
fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the rest as the
ethanol has been removed.
I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that
they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that
easy!
I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't
find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone
with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we
need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn
they put in it.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
It is a fact that Ethanol, will ' layer out' when mixed with water - here in
the UK, some engines can run on 'Mogas' (Automotive fuel - we call petrol)
however only some of these fuels have ethanol in, (I think the ethanol is
being added for environmental reasons) now because the ethanol 'attracts
water, these fuels (petrol) should not be used, the test is to mix (in a
test tube or similar container)10 parts of your fuel with one part water,
and shake the bottle, when it settles and you have a ratio of more than the
10per cent water, you have an ethanol in your fuel, now how this can be
removed from you fuel supply is another matter.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
> <archie97@earthlink.net>
>
> We have been racing with both ethanol and methanol for years, and have not
> heard of this.
> As they are both hydroscopic, I do not see how they can layer out.
> The only way I know of is through distillation.
> Archie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
> To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>; "lycoming engine list"
> <lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:44 PM
> Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
>
>
>> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
>> before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
>> flying yet......
>>
>> Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
>>
>> The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
>> different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If
>> you use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
>> Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
>> these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like
>> you would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your
>> airplane fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the
>> rest as the ethanol has been removed.
>>
>> I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think
>> that they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart
>> that easy!
>>
>> I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and
>> didn't find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
>>
>> Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet,
>> someone with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then
>> all we need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how
>> much corn they put in it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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