---------------------------------------------------------- LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/31/08: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:18 AM - Re: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine (Gary Casey) 2. 10:07 AM - Re: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/30/08 (r falstad) 3. 06:28 PM - Forced landing (Rv7flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:54 AM PST US From: Gary Casey Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Re: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine Bob, To your question about how to tell if it is rich or lean, I've found the best way is to have someone watch from the outside. If it is difficult to start, but when it does there is no puff of black smoke it was probably too lean. If there is a lot of smoke and the engine runs on less than all cylinders for a bit after it starts then it was too rich. Otherwise, it is often really hard to tell. I have a suspicion it is time to start pulling plugs. Your engine is new, probably burning some oil, and you have been deliberately running rich, so the plugs might be fouled to the point that starting is difficult. One thing I have found that helped in that condition is to before you shut it off run the engine at a fairly fast idle - as high as the noise level will let you get away with - even up to the runup rpm or beyond if you want. Lean the mixture as far as possible while keeping it running halfway smooth, at least until you get a real rpm loss. Run it that way for 5 seconds or more and then pull the mixture to shut it off from that condition. Don't go back to idle before shutting it off. You can pull the throttle back to idle as it is spinning down to make it shake as little as possible as it stops, but that doesn't have very much effect. Idea is to burn off the loose carbon and get the plugs cleaned a little for the next start. After the engine stops burning so much oil and you are able to run lean more of the time the problem should go away, if that was the problem in the first place. Good luck. Gary Casey > > Folks, > > I have about ten hours of my Phase I flying on a GlaStar with an > O-360-A1A. The engine has new rings and exhaust valves so I've been > running it hard and full rich. The engine has become increasingly > difficult to start and I want to make sure it isn't my technique > before > I start pulling plugs, etc. I haven't flown in the ten years it > took me > to build the airplane and my total time in that time (not including > the > ten hours in the GlaStar) has been about 14 hours of recent recurrency > training in other people's airplanes. > > I've used the normal start (full rich and throttle cracked about > 1/4" > inch) but it doesn't want to fire. I've also used (sparingly) primer > for a couple of seconds (my primer is electric to cylinders 3 & > 4). The > problem is worse when the engine is hot (and it's already hot outside > here in central Texas -- 85 to 95 degrees). > > I've also used the flooded engine start (mixture at idle cut-off and > throttle full forward) when the engine wouldn't start with the normal > technique. At least this was the technique I used years ago in an > injected Mooney for hot starts. > > How can I tell if it's not getting enough fuel, too much fuel, or if > my plugs have fouled because of a too rich mixture? I have been > leaning > the engine when taxiing. > > Best regards, > > Bob > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:16 AM PST US From: "r falstad" Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Re: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/30/08 It has a carb. ----- Original Message ----- From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:56 AM Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/30/08 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 08-05-30&Archive=LycomingEngines Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 08-05-30&Archive=LycomingEngines ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/30/08: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:15 AM - Re: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine (Grant Piper) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine (Dale Ensing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:21 AM PST US From: "Grant Piper" > Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine I have the same engine and primer system in my RV-4. I prime for about 3 bananas when cold (below 15=B0C) and open the throttle about 1/4" or so, then crank. My carb has the Mooney mod to enrichen it over the original jet (can't recall mod number, but it is too rich at low altitude now, i aggressively lean on the ground). If it is a warm day, I'll just pump the throttle once, set 1/4", then crank. If the engine is warm I'll open the throttle wider initially, ~1/2", and progressively open it as I crank until it fires, then quickly back to idle. If this doesn't work, I'll re-prime, but less than for a cold start. I always start on the left maggie only, then switch on the right mag as soon as it fires (I have individual toggle switches). If this doesn't work for you, I'd check the magneto switch wiring. I stuffed mine up iniitially and was trying to start on the RH mag only (non-impulse), and had obvious trouble! (amazed that I managed to start it as often as I did!). good luck Grant ----- Original Message ----- From: r falstad To: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine Folks, I have about ten hours of my Phase I flying on a GlaStar with an O-360-A1A. The engine has new rings and exhaust valves so I've been running it hard and full rich. The engine has become increasingly difficult to start and I want to make sure it isn't my technique before I start pulling plugs, etc. I haven't flown in the ten years it took me to build the airplane and my total time in that time (not including the ten hours in the GlaStar) has been about 14 hours of recent recurrency training in other people's airplanes. I've used the normal start (full rich and throttle cracked about 1/4" inch) but it doesn't want to fire. I've also used (sparingly) primer for a couple of seconds (my primer is electric to cylinders 3 & 4). The problem is worse when the engine is hot (and it's already hot outside here in central Texas -- 85 to 95 degrees). I've also used the flooded engine start (mixture at idle cut-off and throttle full forward) when the engine wouldn't start with the normal technique. At least this was the technique I used years ago in an injected Mooney for hot starts. How can I tell if it's not getting enough fuel, too much fuel, or if my plugs have fouled because of a too rich mixture? I have been leaning the engine when taxiing. Best regards, Bob ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:50 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" > Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine Is it carbureted or injected? ----- Original Message ----- From: r falstad To: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:43 PM Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Embarassing Confession -- I Can't Start My Engine Folks, I have about ten hours of my Phase I flying on a GlaStar with an O-360-A1 A. The engine has new rings and exhaust valves so I've been running it har d and full rich. The engine has become increasingly difficult to start and I want to make sure it isn't my technique before I start pulling plugs, et c. I haven't flown in the ten years it took me to build the airplane and m y total time in that time (not including the ten hours in the GlaStar) has been about 14 hours of recent recurrency training in other people's airplan es. I've used the normal start (full rich and throttle cracked about 1/4" inc h) but it doesn't want to fire. I've also used (sparingly) primer for a co uple of seconds (my primer is electric to cylinders 3 & 4). The problem is worse when the engine is hot (and it's already hot outside here in central Texas -- 85 to 95 degrees). I've also used the flooded engine start (mixture at idle cut-off and thro ttle full forward) when the engine wouldn't start with the normal technique . At least this was the technique I used years ago in an injected Mooney f or hot starts. How can I tell if it's not getting enough fuel, too much fuel, or if my p lugs have fouled because of a too rich mixture? I have been leaning the en gine when taxiing. Best regards, Bob http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:02 PM PST US Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Forced landing From: "Rv7flyer" Today my 0-360 started running rough. Backfiring while at cruse. I landed to check things out. Upon restarting my engine was flooded and I had a heck of a time getting it going. Once started and cleaned out I proceeded to do a run up and noticed that I could not produce full power until i pulled the mixture back 2/3 of the way. I could not get it to idle with the mixture in all the way. The only way to get it started now is to have the mixture half way out and then lean it 2/3 of the way just to keep it running. I can produce full power at that setting. Another note I noticed that the fuel pressure continue to rise even after shutting down the engine and fuel pump. This could be from high heat in the engine compartment. I have checked the linkages and proper operation of the mixture control system. OK Carb is a MA4-5 with the f mod for the RV7A. Could i possibly be looking at a stuck needle/float valve? After it cooled a bit everything ran better. Did not have to lean as much. Any Ideas? 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