Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:17 AM - Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:53 AM - Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Ralph E. Capen)
2. 05:35 AM - off topic (Ronnie Koonce)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (FLYaDIVE)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Ralph E. Capen)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Tim Andres)
6. 07:25 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 07:40 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (FLYaDIVE)
8. 09:16 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (MLWynn@AOL.COM)
9. 09:28 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Ralph E. Capen)
10. 10:17 AM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (Tim Andres)
11. 09:11 PM - Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached (MLWynn@AOL.COM)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution |
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors!
Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by sending your personal check to:
Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Folks,
I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I thought
I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?
With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the
shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there. Is
there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?
Thanks,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
My niece, an R-44 pilot recently acquired a Diamond Star XLS and is
looking for a local shop to maintain it. Any suggestions? She lives in
Benton, Kansas. Thanks
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Hello Ralph:
The cooling shroud is a nice-a-ty but not really required. Do you have
fire-sleeve on all the fuel lines? That is all that is required. I have
the same setup and have never had vapor lock; if that was your reason for
the shroud.
As for tightening .. That is an issue. I'm guessing here - But, do you
have STEEL fittings going into the pump?
The basic rule is steel fitting for certified aircraft - But, I'm not
making the rules & regs the issue. It could be the problem. The problem
is the steel fittings can be tightened way more than necessary without
showing/needing any great forces. They almost cut their own threads;
driving the fitting in way more than required. So, why is that a problem?
Because the body of the fuel pump is much softer than the fitting and if
the fitting is over tightened you could crack the pump case.
Now, try this - This is to insure the quality of the threads on the fitting
and will also verify if there are any cracks in the pump body:
Start by cursing -
Then remove the fitting
Wire brush by hand the fitting
Run your finger around the inside of the pump threads - You are looking for
roughness of burs.
If none found you many be lucky.
NOW - This you must do EXACTLY as described. You are going to put TEFLON
tape on the fitting BUT!
START the Teflon tape THREE (3) threads BACK from the START END of the
fitting.
Put on three (3) layers - PULL the tape tight so it stretches.
YES - I know Teflon tape is frowned against - For two reasons:
1 - People put it all the way to the end of the fitting and pieces get cut
off and can clog the fuel / oil systems.
2 - It reduces the friction on the fitting and leads to over tightening of
the fitting.
HOW TO PUT ON TEFLON TAPE
Hold the fitting in your left hand with the start end facing to the right.
Start at the top of the fitting (On The Left)
Pull the tape and stretch it.
Wrap it AWAY FROM YOU <-- Failure to do so will lead to more cursing.
Wrap it - But stay three (3) threads away from the start end.
Finish the wrapping with the tape end going UP the thread toward the top
(your left)
Tightening - As mentioned CAUTION! Do not over tighten. The Teflon will
seal the leaks.
IF you still have a leak you could have a cracked fuel pump body. This I
truly hope not.
Oh, there is an approved pipe dope compound for certified aircraft but I do
not recall the name.
TOOL WISE - I can't see your setup or what tool you are using - But, don't
be afraid to MAKE your own tool by grinding a wrench to fit the area - Or
heating and bending a wrench to fit the area.
You may want to start with a FLARE WRENCH and work from there.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
> recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Folks,
>
> I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I
> thought I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
>
> For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten
> the fittings? With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as
> well as the shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench
> in there. Is there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to
> make a special tool?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph
> RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Good scoop here Barry!
I have Fire-Sleeve on those lines and they are steel fittings. From what I recall,
they are NOT NPT threads and have an O-Ring and washer that are tightened
by a jam-nut to create the sealing action. I had some hot-restarting issues
during the summer months as I have a tight fitting plenum (SamJames) around the
engine.
I have already accomplished the cursing parts....
I also have the approved pipe dope stuff - it is a white compound made by the loc-tite
folks (565). Hadn't used either for this application due to the O-Ring/washer
thingy....that has worked for the first 140 hours...until I added the
shroud.
I'll be modifying some wrenches to fit in there meanwhile.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: FLYaDIVE
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Hello Ralph:
The cooling shroud is a nice-a-ty but not really required. Do you have fire-sleeve
on all the fuel lines? That is all that is required. I have the same setup
and have never had vapor lock; if that was your reason for the shroud.
As for tightening .. That is an issue. I'm guessing here - But, do you have STEEL
fittings going into the pump?The basic rule is steel fitting for certified
aircraft - But, I'm not making the rules & regs the issue. It could be the problem.
The problem is the steel fittings can be tightened way more than necessary
without showing/needing any great forces. They almost cut their own threads;
driving the fitting in way more than required. So, why is that a problem?
Because the body of the fuel pump is much softer than the fitting and if the
fitting is over tightened you could crack the pump case.
Now, try this - This is to insure the quality of the threads on the fitting and
will also verify if there are any cracks in the pump body:Start by cursing -Then
remove the fittingWire brush by hand the fitting
Run your finger around the inside of the pump threads - You are looking for roughness
of burs.If none found you many be lucky.NOW - This you must do EXACTLY
as described. You are going to put TEFLON tape on the fitting BUT!
START the Teflon tape THREE (3) threads BACK from the START END of the fitting.Put
on three (3) layers - PULL the tape tight so it stretches.YES - I know Teflon
tape is frowned against - For two reasons:
1 - People put it all the way to the end of the fitting and pieces get cut off
and can clog the fuel / oil systems.2 - It reduces the friction on the fitting
and leads to over tightening of the fitting.
HOW TO PUT ON TEFLON TAPEHold the fitting in your left hand with the start end
facing to the right.Start at the top of the fitting (On The Left)Pull the tape
and stretch it.
Wrap it AWAY FROM YOU <-- Failure to do so will lead to more cursing.Wrap it -
But stay three (3) threads away from the start end.Finish the wrapping with the
tape end going UP the thread toward the top (your left)
Tightening - As mentioned CAUTION! Do not over tighten. The Teflon will seal
the leaks.IF you still have a leak you could have a cracked fuel pump body. This
I truly hope not.
Oh, there is an approved pipe dope compound for certified aircraft but I do not
recall the name.
TOOL WISE - I can't see your setup or what tool you are using - But, don't be afraid
to MAKE your own tool by grinding a wrench to fit the area - Or heating
and bending a wrench to fit the area.
You may want to start with a FLARE WRENCH and work from there.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
Folks,
I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I thought
I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?
With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the
shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there. Is
there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?
Thanks,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try a
gain, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very smal
l amount of oil on the o ring.
Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.
If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube inst
ead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in mind k
eep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel s
ystem and cause a blockage.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Thanks - the info on the wrench is what I am hoping will work.....mine are O-ring
fittings...
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Andres
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try again,
don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very small amount
of oil on the o ring.Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you
in there.If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube
instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in
mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel
system and cause a blockage.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Good points Tim:
Ralph did inform me that they are indeed O ring sealed fittings.
So getting a high torque is NOT required. The O ring should be making the
seal and the threads would be a straight thread not a NPT.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and
> try again, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a
> very small amount of oil on the o ring.
> Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.
> If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube
> instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in
> mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the
> fuel system and cause a blockage.
> Tim
> Sent from my iPad
>
> **
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up,
as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring
type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you
can position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten
down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
No fun without the cooling shroud....
For my original installation, I got everything roughly in place and was able to
rotate for final position prior to snugging down the O-Ring nut - no special
sealant and tight enough that it took some force to rotate it again. There's
probably a torque value and I'll look for that in responses too!
-----Original Message-----
From: MLWynn@AOL.COM
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened
them up, as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the
O ring type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is
that you can position the right angle into the correct location and then
tighten down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking
nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look at
it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a corr
esponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be proxim
ate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring forced
onto the threaded portion of the fitting.
I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a crow-fo
ot and a calculator to use it. Just cinch it down without getting carried a
way. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you tighten t
he nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to where y
ou started....
No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it whi
le you install it.
Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening the h
ose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, MLWynn@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump fitti
ngs on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up, a
s I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring typ
e fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you can
position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten down th
e locking nut to get the seal.
>
> Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the fittin
g pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the appropriat
e tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
>
> My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Finishing
> San Ramon, CA
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
This was very helpful. Thank you.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 11/28/2012 11:44:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tim2542@sbcglobal.net writes:
It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look
at it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a
corresponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be
proximate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring
forced onto the threaded portion of the fitting.
I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a
crow-foot and a calculator to use it. Just cinch it down without getting
carried away. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you
tighten the nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to
where you started....
No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it
while you install it.
Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening the
hose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, _MLWynn@AOL.COM_ (mailto:MLWynn@AOL.COM)
wrote:
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up,
as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring
type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you
can position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten
down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
==================================
ctric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution
===================================
-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List =================================== cs.com
===================================
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List)
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|