Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Dale Ensing)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (FLYaDIVE)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Tim Andres)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (FLYaDIVE)
5. 09:10 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Dale Ensing)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Scott Sellmeyer)
7. 09:21 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (David & Elaine Lamphere)
9. 11:49 AM - Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them (Dale Ensing)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find |
them
Perhaps it should be....it works!
Dale Ensing
On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wr
ote:
> Gentlemen -
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand o
f engine.
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
> Continental Motors
> Technical Support / Customer Service
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> Replace the Intake Gasket.
>> AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
Neil:
That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt!
Well, it can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV.
The seal without the RTV cannot be 100% verified so a simple light smear of
RTV insures an airtight seal, as well as holding the gasket in-place for
easy assembly. Of course you are a representative of Continental Motors and
very well should reiterate Continental's policy. Yet, there are other ways
of doing things... Not authorized, yet, not wrong either. This could fall
under Experimental if the owner and engine are so registered.
The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my
suggestion to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility.
My reasoning is; better to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
Thank you for your input and concern.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
> wrote:
> Gentlemen -
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either
> brand of engine.
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
> Continental Motors
> Technical Support / Customer Service
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
RTV and gasoline don't mix well. The RTV will swell when exposed to it for j
ust a short while, in fact gas works great for removing RTV from a painted s
urface or even engine parts. Using it on the induction system would be a bad
idea.
That's my experience.
Tim
> On May 30, 2014, at 6:40 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Neil:
>
> That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt! Wel
l, it can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV.
> The seal without the RTV cannot be 100% verified so a simple light smear o
f RTV insures an airtight seal, as well as holding the gasket in-place for e
asy assembly. Of course you are a representative of Continental Motors and v
ery well should reiterate Continental's policy. Yet, there are other ways o
f doing things... Not authorized, yet, not wrong either. This could fall un
der Experimental if the owner and engine are so registered.
> The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my sug
gestion to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility. My reasoning
is; better to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
>
> Thank you for your input and concern.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
>> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.a
ero> wrote:
>> Gentlemen -
>>
>> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
of engine.
>>
>> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>>
>> Neal George
>> Continental Motors
>> Technical Support / Customer Service
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> Replace the Intake Gasket.
>>> AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>>
>>
>>
>> s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngi
nes-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
Tim:
You are correct, there are RTV's that will fail with AvGas & MoGas, but
there are RTV's that are used for sealing gas tanks. If I recall correctly
Dow Corning 732 is one of them. Automotive High Temp RTV which is called
out for Gasket Making will work very well in this case. I have at least 8
engine rebuilds using RTV and never had a problem. If you have ever
assembled an exhaust system on an engine you know there is P.I.T.A. step of
pulling up all the flanges and no-blow Gaskets into place without cursing
too much. In this case as with the intake; a little RTV works very well.
Yea, some will argue that the RTV will not handle the exhaust temps, but,
I have never found that to be a problem. Sometimes you have to think
outside the box or in this case beyond the gasket.
BTW, I do NOT recommend RTV for tank sealing even though it is recommended
else where.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> RTV and gasoline don't mix well. The RTV will swell when exposed to it for
> just a short while, in fact gas works great for removing RTV from a painted
> surface or even engine parts. Using it on the induction system would be a
> bad idea.
> That's my experience.
> Tim
>
> On May 30, 2014, at 6:40 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Neil:
>
> That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt!
> Well, it can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV.
> The seal without the RTV cannot be 100% verified so a simple light smear
> of RTV insures an airtight seal, as well as holding the gasket in-place for
> easy assembly. Of course you are a representative of Continental Motors
> and very well should reiterate Continental's policy. Yet, there are other
> ways of doing things... Not authorized, yet, not wrong either. This could
> fall under Experimental if the owner and engine are so registered.
> The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my
> suggestion to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility.
> My reasoning is; better to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
>
>
> Thank you for your input and concern.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <
> ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen -
>>
>> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either
>> brand of engine.
>>
>> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>>
>> Neal George
>> Continental Motors
>> Technical Support / Customer Service
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>>
>> *
>>
>> s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
Florosilicone RTV sealants such as Dow Corning 730 are impervious to 100LL a
nd auto fuels. I have a test strip of two pieces of aluminum, bonded togethe
r with 730, that has been
immersed in 100LL for eleven years with no swelling or deterioration. My RV-
6A wing tanks inspection plates and fuel level sensor mounting plates are in
stalled with Dow Corning 730 florosilicone. No leaks in ten years!
BTW ..the 730 made it much easier to do Van's wing tank SBs than my friend's
tanks done with Proseal.
Dale Ensing
On May 30, 2014, at 11:22 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tim:
>
> You are correct, there are RTV's that will fail with AvGas & MoGas, but th
ere are RTV's that are used for sealing gas tanks. If I recall correctly Do
w Corning 732 is one of them. Automotive High Temp RTV which is called out f
or Gasket Making will work very well in this case. I have at least 8 engine
rebuilds using RTV and never had a problem. If you have ever assembled an e
xhaust system on an engine you know there is P.I.T.A. step of pulling up all
the flanges and no-blow Gaskets into place without cursing too much. In th
is case as with the intake; a little RTV works very well. Yea, some will ar
gue that the RTV will not handle the exhaust temps, but, I have never found t
hat to be a problem. Sometimes you have to think outside the box or in this c
ase beyond the gasket.
>
> BTW, I do NOT recommend RTV for tank sealing even though it is recommended
else where.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote
:
> RTV and gasoline don't mix well. The RTV will swell when exposed to it for
just a short while, in fact gas works great for removing RTV from a painted
surface or even engine parts. Using it on the induction system would be a b
ad idea.
> That's my experience.
> Tim
>
> On May 30, 2014, at 6:40 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Neil:
>>
>> That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt! We
ll, it can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV.
>> The seal without the RTV cannot be 100% verified so a simple light smear o
f RTV insures an airtight seal, as well as holding the gasket in-place for e
asy assembly. Of course you are a representative of Continental Motors and v
ery well should reiterate Continental's policy. Yet, there are other ways o
f doing things... Not authorized, yet, not wrong either. This could fall un
der Experimental if the owner and engine are so registered.
>> The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my su
ggestion to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility. My reasonin
g is; better to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
>>
>> Thank you for your input and concern.
>>
>> Barry
>> "Chop'd Liver"
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.a
ero> wrote:
>> Gentlemen -
>>
>> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
of engine.
>>
>> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>>
>> Neal George
>> Continental Motors
>> Technical Support / Customer Service
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> Replace the Intake Gasket.
>>> AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>>
>>
>>
>> s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngi
nes-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
One fairly easy method is to use a compression check fitting plugged into
one cylinder and an air compressor to pressurize the induction system.
You'll have to tape-off or otherwise seal your air filter or ram air, etc.
Make sure the cylinder's intake valve is OPEN and then the pressure will
flow throughout the induction system. Spray a soapy water solution around
every joint & fitting, and look for the tell-tale bubbles.
I would try this before I start replacing parts/seals.
Scott
Mooney M20J
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 6:08 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ralph:
>
> If you suspect an Intake Leak on ONLY one cylinder keep your search small.
> Start by:
>
> 1. REMOVING the Intake Tube.
> 2. Replace the Intake Gasket.
> 3. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
> 4. CLEAN the mating surfaces.
> 5. Replace the rubber connection between the Intake Tube and the Engine
> 6. Replace the Hose Clamps with GOOD clamps of a know brand - BREEZE
> Corp. Clamps.
> 7. Now, this is a tricky one - I had many engine problems and lost my
> #1 cyl in flight at least 3 times... I lost count! The problem was: There
> are TWO DIFFERENT thicknesses for the intake pipe and the mounting
> clamp/flange. IF you have a thin intake tube and a counter bored mounting
> clamp for a thick tube you WILL have an intake leak. The way to check this
> is: When you insert the intake tube in the clamp the Top of the Tube will
> be FLUSH with the top of the mounting flange. If it sits below someone
> messed up.
>
> I will be reading this thread, I am VERY interested is finding out if
> anyone has tricks on checking for Intake Leaks. One Trick that I know of
> is to take CO2 gas and spray it around the intake joint points. IF there
> is a leak the engine will stumble. This trick is Better than water as it is
> a gas and can be controlled with a small diameter pipe that can be aimed.
> Also no spray back.
>
> Best of luck,
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find |
them
How does the 730 handle cylinder head heat? Sounds like this would be just the
stuff for this intake gasket......
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ensing
Sent: May 30, 2014 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you find them
Florosilicone RTV sealants such as Dow Corning 730 are impervious to 100LL and
auto fuels. I have a test strip of two pieces of aluminum, bonded together with
730, that has been immersed in 100LL for eleven years with no swelling or deterioration.
My RV-6A wing tanks inspection plates and fuel level sensor mounting
plates are installed with Dow Corning 730 florosilicone. No leaks in ten years!
BTW ..the 730 made it much easier to do Van's wing tank SBs than my friend's tanks
done with Proseal.
Dale Ensing
On May 30, 2014, at 11:22 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Tim:
You are correct, there are RTV's that will fail with AvGas & MoGas, but there are
RTV's that are used for sealing gas tanks. If I recall correctly Dow Corning
732 is one of them. Automotive High Temp RTV which is called out for Gasket
Making will work very well in this case. I have at least 8 engine rebuilds
using RTV and never had a problem. If you have ever assembled an exhaust system
on an engine you know there is P.I.T.A. step of pulling up all the flanges
and no-blow Gaskets into place without cursing too much. In this case as with
the intake; a little RTV works very well. Yea, some will argue that the RTV
will not handle the exhaust temps, but, I have never found that to be a problem.
Sometimes you have to think outside the box or in this case beyond the gasket.
BTW, I do NOT recommend RTV for tank sealing even though it is recommended else
where.
Barry"Chop'd Liver"
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
RTV and gasoline don't mix well. The RTV will swell when exposed to it for just
a short while, in fact gas works great for removing RTV from a painted surface
or even engine parts. Using it on the induction system would be a bad idea.
That's my experience. Tim
On May 30, 2014, at 6:40 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Neil:
That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt! Well, it
can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV. The seal without the RTV cannot be
100% verified so a simple light smear of RTV insures an airtight seal, as well
as holding the gasket in-place for easy assembly. Of course you are a representative
of Continental Motors and very well should reiterate Continental's policy.
Yet, there are other ways of doing things... Not authorized, yet, not
wrong either. This could fall under Experimental if the owner and engine are
so registered.
The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my suggestion
to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility. My reasoning is; better
to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
Thank you for your input and concern.
Barry"Chop'd Liver"
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
Gentlemen -
You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.
The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
Neal George
Continental Motors
Technical Support / Customer Service
Sent from my iPhone
Replace the Intake Gasket. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
==================================
-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
==================================
cs.com
==================================
matronics.com/contribution
==================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find |
them
My experience with high temp RTV where it comes in contact with fuel
has not been successful.
It softens and gets slimy. You could really get into trouble using it
in the wrong place.
I tend to agree with Neal..
David
On May 30, 2014, at 6:57 AM, Dale Ensing wrote:
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
> > wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen -
>>
>> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either
>> brand of engine.
>>
>> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>>
>> Neal George
>> Continental Motors
>> Technical Support / Customer Service
>> Sent from my iPhone
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find |
them
High temp rating for 730 is 400F
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 30, 2014, at 12:21, "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> How does the 730 handle cylinder head heat? Sounds like this would be just the
stuff for this intake gasket......
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Dale Ensing
>
> Sent: May 30, 2014 12:09 PM
>
> To: "lycomingengines-list@matronics.com"
>
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you find
them
>
>
>
> Florosilicone RTV sealants such as Dow Corning 730 are impervious to 100LL and
auto fuels. I have a test strip of two pieces of aluminum, bonded together with
730, that has been immersed in 100LL for eleven years with no swelling or
deterioration. My RV-6A wing tanks inspection plates and fuel level sensor mounting
plates are installed with Dow Corning 730 florosilicone. No leaks in ten
years!
> BTW ..the 730 made it much easier to do Van's wing tank SBs than my friend's
tanks done with Proseal.
> Dale Ensing
> On May 30, 2014, at 11:22 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tim:
>
> You are correct, there are RTV's that will fail with AvGas & MoGas, but there
are RTV's that are used for sealing gas tanks. If I recall correctly Dow Corning
732 is one of them. Automotive High Temp RTV which is called out for Gasket
Making will work very well in this case. I have at least 8 engine rebuilds
using RTV and never had a problem. If you have ever assembled an exhaust system
on an engine you know there is P.I.T.A. step of pulling up all the flanges
and no-blow Gaskets into place without cursing too much. In this case as with
the intake; a little RTV works very well. Yea, some will argue that the RTV
will not handle the exhaust temps, but, I have never found that to be a problem.
Sometimes you have to think outside the box or in this case beyond the gasket.
>
> BTW, I do NOT recommend RTV for tank sealing even though it is recommended else
where.
>
> Barry"Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> RTV and gasoline don't mix well. The RTV will swell when exposed to it for just
a short while, in fact gas works great for removing RTV from a painted surface
or even engine parts. Using it on the induction system would be a bad idea.
> That's my experience. Tim
> On May 30, 2014, at 6:40 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Neil:
>
>
> That may very well be true and I agree with you. But, It can't hurt! Well,
it can if one is totally sloppy with the RTV. The seal without the RTV cannot
be 100% verified so a simple light smear of RTV insures an airtight seal, as
well as holding the gasket in-place for easy assembly. Of course you are a representative
of Continental Motors and very well should reiterate Continental's
policy. Yet, there are other ways of doing things... Not authorized, yet, not
wrong either. This could fall under Experimental if the owner and engine are
so registered.
>
> The fellow is looking for a intake leak, very difficult to find, so my suggestion
to him was steps that would eliminate the possibility. My reasoning is;
better to eliminate, than to leave any question of doubt.
>
>
> Thank you for your input and concern.
>
>
> Barry"Chop'd Liver"
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of
engine.
>
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
>
>
> Neal George
> Continental Motors
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Replace the Intake Gasket. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
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