Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:50 AM - RTV and Aircraft Engines (Neal George)
2. 12:05 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (Ralph E. Capen)
3. 02:11 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (Ralph Finch)
4. 04:10 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (Dale Ensing)
5. 05:10 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (FLYaDIVE)
6. 05:39 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (David & Elaine Lamphere)
7. 07:58 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (Neal George)
8. 08:17 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (John Cox)
9. 09:14 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (FLYaDIVE)
10. 11:08 PM - Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines (Stuart Hutchison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RTV and Aircraft Engines |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Thanks for the 'result' photo's
-----Original Message-----
From: Neal George
Sent: Jun 2, 2014 2:49 PM
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: RTV and Aircraft Engines
Clean
false
false
false
false
EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE
For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who
might be tempted to use it, I offer
the attached photos.
One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.
RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.
Heat accelerates the deterioration.
Youd be surprised where it ends up
The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.
RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.
In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows
things to move that shouldnt like crankcase halves.
Movement results in fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts
lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.
In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent
crank-pin cheeks.
When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark a stress riser.
The result is inevitable.
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you find them
Perhaps it should be....it works!
Dale Ensing
On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
Gentlemen -
You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.
The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
Neal George
Continental Motors
Technical Support / Customer Service
Sent from my iPhone
1.
Replace the Intake Gasket.
2.
AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Interesting and valuable post on the Matronics lists.
I'm good for Wednesday, morning or afternoon. It appears Wednesday will be
hot, but the hottest days are Thursday and Friday.
RF
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aer
o
> wrote:
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for
> those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft
> in the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the
> deterioration. You=99d be surprised where it ends up
>
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners. R
TV
> was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation,
> under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows
> things to move that shouldn=99t =93 like crankcase halves. M
ovement results
> in fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose
> their clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance,
> the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin
> cheeks. When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark =93 a s
tress
> riser. The result is inevitable.
>
>
> [image: PIC00005]
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dale
> Ensing
> *Sent:* Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> *To:* lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did
> you find them
>
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
> of engine.
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
>
> Continental Motors
>
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D*
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D*
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D*
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D*
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Mr. George,
Your point is well taken. But, You are generalizing the term RTV. RTV is not
a product. It is a description of a product that is Room Temperature Vulcan
ized. The chemistry of RTV products is wide and varied with performance acco
rdingly. Not all RTVs are created equal! There are RTVs that do not "get sof
t in the presence of motor oil and gasoline"
Dale Ensing
On Jun 2, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wro
te:
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for tho
se who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft i
n the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the deterioratio
n. You=99d be surprised where it ends up
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners. RT
V was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation, under
the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to m
ove that shouldn=99t =93 like crankcase halves. Movement result
s in fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose the
ir clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the mai
n bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks. W
hen the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark =93 a stress riser.
The result is inevitable.
>
>
> <image003.png>
>
> <image005.jpg>
>
>
>
> From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomi
ngengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> To: lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you f
ind them
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> w
rote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand o
f engine.
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
> Continental Motors
> Technical Support / Customer Service
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Neal:
No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that did
that should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a
'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There were very
particulars on What to use and How to use it.
NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use
to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! RTV is
one hell of an improvement.
So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
wrote:
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for
> those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft
> in the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the
> deterioration. You'd be surprised where it ends up...
>
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners. RTV
> was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation,
> under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows
> things to move that shouldn't - like crankcase halves. Movement results
> in fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose
> their clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance,
> the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin
> cheeks. When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark - a stress
> riser. The result is inevitable.
>
>
> [image: PIC00005]
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dale
> Ensing
> *Sent:* Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> *To:* lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did
> you find them
>
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
> of engine.
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
>
> Continental Motors
>
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
When I rebuilt my Lycoming 320, I used silk thread and a glue (spec'd
by Lycoming) that reminded me of Pliobond - didn't seem to be varnish.
Anyway, no leakage yet @360 hrs.
Dave L.
On Jun 2, 2014, at 8:08 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Neal:
>
> No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that
> did that should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
>
> Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a
> 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There
> were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.
>
> NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that
> Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case
> halves - Damn! RTV is one hell of an improvement.
> So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George
<ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
> > wrote:
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or
> for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets
> soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates
> the deterioration. You=92d be surprised where it ends up=85
>
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical
> fasteners. RTV was used instead of the indicated (required)
> sealant. In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV
> in critical joints allows things to move that shouldn=92t ' like
> crankcase halves. Movement results in fretting. As the main
> bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force
> and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the main bearings
> walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks. When
> the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark ' a stress riser. The
> result is inevitable.
>
>
> <image003.png>
>
>
> <image005.jpg>
>
>
> From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> To: lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did
> you find them
>
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George
<ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
> > wrote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either
> brand of engine.
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
>
> Continental Motors
>
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
> D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum - > Q, /b> cs.com/Navigator?
> LycomingEngines-List
> D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
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> 3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - onics.com
> D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> - List Contribution Web Site - t! -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin. cs.com/contribution
> D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
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> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
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> 3D
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> 3D
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> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RTV and Aircraft Engines |
OK,
The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out spec
ific products and procedures for sealing the various joints.
Y'all do what you want, but I'm really tired of reading about friends in th
e news.
A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and d
oes not lend itself to email-type back & forth. Anyone who would like to c
ontinue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop b
y the booth at OSH and we'll hash it out.
neal
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomin
gengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: RTV and Aircraft Engines
Neal:
No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that did tha
t should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'gener
al' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There were very parti
culars on What to use and How to use it.
NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use t
o use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! RTV is one
hell of an improvement.
So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
<mailto:ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>> wrote:
For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for thos
e who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft i
n the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the deteriorati
on. You'd be surprised where it ends up...
The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners. RTV
was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation, under
the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to
move that shouldn't - like crankcase halves. Movement results in fretting.
As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping f
orce and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the main bearings w
alked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks. When the bea
ring touched the cheek, it left a mark - a stress riser. The result is ine
vitable.
[cid:image001.png@01CF7EAA.F355CBA0]
[PIC00005]
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-lycoming
engines-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-serve
r@matronics.com<mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com>] On
Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
s.com>
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you fi
nd them
Perhaps it should be....it works!
Dale Ensing
On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero<ma
ilto:ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>> wrote:
Gentlemen -
You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand o
f engine.
The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
Neal George
Continental Motors
Technical Support / Customer Service
Sent from my iPhone
1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D
- The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -
>
Q,
/b>
cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
onics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D
- List Contribution Web Site -
t!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
cs.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Thank you for this post.
On Jun 2, 2014 8:07 PM, "Neal George" <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
wrote:
> OK,
>
>
> The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out
> specific products and procedures for sealing the various joints.
>
>
> Y=99all do what you want, but I=99m really tired of reading a
bout friends in
> the news.
>
>
> A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and
> does not lend itself to email-type back & forth. Anyone who would like
> to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or
> drop by the booth at OSH and we=99ll hash it out.
>
>
> neal
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM
> *To:* LYCOMING ENGINES
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: RTV and Aircraft Engines
>
>
> Neal:
>
>
> No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that did
> that should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
>
>
> Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a
> 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There were ve
ry
> particulars on What to use and How to use it.
>
>
> NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use
> to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! RTV is
> one hell of an improvement.
>
> So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
>
>
> Barry
>
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <
> ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
>
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for
> those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft
> in the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the
> deterioration. You=99d be surprised where it ends up
>
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.
> RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation,
> under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows
> things to move that shouldn=99t =93 like crankcase halves. M
ovement results in
> fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their
> clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the mai
n
> bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.
> When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark =93 a stress ris
er. The
> result is inevitable.
>
>
> [image: PIC00005]
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dale
> Ensing
> *Sent:* Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> *To:* lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did
> you find them
>
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
> of engine.
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
>
> Continental Motors
>
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -
>
> >
>
> Q,
>
> /b>
>
> cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> onics.com
>
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> - List Contribution Web Site -
>
> t!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> cs.com/contribution
>
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Yes, OK!
Stop the dramatics and stick with the facts. An engine is not going to
stop running and a plane is not going to fall out of the air because you
use RTV... In the areas we are talking about. And in the Lycoming manual,
as previously stated there is an RTV for sealing the case halves. And as I
previously stated you BETTER quote only from the approved Continental
Manual... After all, you should not jeopardize your job or put the company
in question. NOTHING wrong with sticking to the policies. But, if
Continental or Lycoming were the ONLY sources of information and the ONLY
way of doing something there would not be any reason for the EAA or
advancements in aviation. Just consider little things in recent years like
Electronic Ignitions, Roller Cams, the cange in valves and valve guides, or
how about things like Flight Directors for aircraft UNDER $3000! We all
know, or should understand Lycoming & Continental make their decisions by
what the Lawyers say... Not by what Engineers say.
You cannot get into trouble by doing what the Manual says.
Unless you are the prosecuting attorney.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
No-sense in having a public discussion if it only takes place over a phone.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero
> wrote:
> OK,
>
>
> The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out
> specific products and procedures for sealing the various joints.
>
>
> Y'all do what you want, but I'm really tired of reading about friends in
> the news.
>
>
> A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and
> does not lend itself to email-type back & forth. Anyone who would like
> to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or
> drop by the booth at OSH and we'll hash it out.
>
>
> neal
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM
> *To:* LYCOMING ENGINES
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: RTV and Aircraft Engines
>
>
> Neal:
>
>
> No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that did
> that should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
>
>
> Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a
> 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There were very
> particulars on What to use and How to use it.
>
>
> NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use
> to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! RTV is
> one hell of an improvement.
>
> So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
>
>
> Barry
>
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <
> ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
>
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for
> those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft
> in the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the
> deterioration. You'd be surprised where it ends up...
>
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.
> RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation,
> under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows
> things to move that shouldn't - like crankcase halves. Movement results in
> fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their
> clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the main
> bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.
> When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark - a stress riser. The
> result is inevitable.
>
>
> [image: PIC00005]
>
>
> *From:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dale
> Ensing
> *Sent:* Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> *To:* lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did
> you find them
>
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand
> of engine.
>
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
>
> Continental Motors
>
> Technical Support / Customer Service
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
>
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
> D===============================================
>
> - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -
>
> >
>
> Q,
>
> /b>
>
> cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>
>
> D===============================================
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> onics.com
>
>
> D===============================================
>
> - List Contribution Web Site -
>
> t!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> cs.com/contribution
>
>
> D===============================================
>
>
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines |
Thanks Neal.
I rebuilt my Lycoming IO-540 under supervision and learned quite a few logic
al, but tried and true lessons from the workshop engineers at the time. Your
thoughts are much appreciated.
Certain RTVs may be acceptable according to Lycoming, but there's none in my
engine and I'm personally glad about that !
Kind regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
On 03/06/2014, at 12:57, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote:
> OK,
>
> The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out spe
cific products and procedures for sealing the various joints.
>
> Y=99all do what you want, but I=99m really tired of reading ab
out friends in the news.
>
> A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and d
oes not lend itself to email-type back & forth. Anyone who would like to co
ntinue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop by t
he booth at OSH and we=99ll hash it out.
>
> neal
>
>
> From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomi
ngengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM
> To: LYCOMING ENGINES
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: RTV and Aircraft Engines
>
> Neal:
>
> No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. The IDIOT that did th
at should never blow his nose... He will blow his brains out!
>
> Yet! Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'gene
ral' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. There were very parti
culars on What to use and How to use it.
>
> NOTE: All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use t
o use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! RTV is one h
ell of an improvement.
> So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aer
o> wrote:
> For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for tho
se who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.
>
> One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV. RTV gets soft i
n the presence of motor oil and gasoline. Heat accelerates the deterioratio
n. You=99d be surprised where it ends up
>
> The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners. RT
V was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant. In operation, under
the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to m
ove that shouldn=99t =93 like crankcase halves. Movement result
s in fretting. As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose the
ir clamping force and the bearings begin to move. In this instance, the mai
n bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks. W
hen the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark =93 a stress riser.
The result is inevitable.
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
> From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomi
ngengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM
> To: lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you f
ind them
>
> Perhaps it should be....it works!
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> w
rote:
>
> Gentlemen -
>
> You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand o
f engine.
>
> The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.
>
> Neal George
> Continental Motors
> Technical Support / Customer Service
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> 1. Replace the Intake Gasket.
> 2. AND seal it with High Temp RTV.
>
>
>
>
>
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