Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:34 AM - Spark Plugs (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
2. 09:44 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Ralph E. Capen)
3. 10:45 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (jim@PoogieBearRanch.com)
4. 12:13 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (John Cox)
5. 02:28 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Jack Philips)
6. 03:54 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (jim@PoogieBearRanch.com)
Message 1
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I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray
paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about
50 per side.
A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that
is a myth as well.
If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
Bobby
Lyc O-320
Message 2
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Good info - glad to hear it works the way it should!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
Sent: Jun 9, 2015 8:33 AM
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray
paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about
50 per side.
A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that
is a myth as well.
If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
Bobby
Lyc O-320
Message 3
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Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 fa
iled the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth.
It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad
plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be
a fairly typical experience.
No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5
years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having pro
blems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings
=2E This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized a
irplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher alt
itudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defecti
ve plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires
cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself.
Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in
their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which inva
riably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champi
on plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monit
or logs show that as well.
Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new product
ion and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory emplo
yees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (fo
r the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in t
he Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs be
ing shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Tex
as / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recom
mended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.
According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacit
ly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wi
re spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs
=2E Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any othe
r "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new de
sign plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure mod
es (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most
of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal invento
ry turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first.
Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they
had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation need
s Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowl
edge the issues they had.
Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark P
lugs
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and
spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still
about 50 per side.
A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. S
o that is a myth as well.
If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
Bobby
Lyc O-320
Message 4
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The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) was
first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ago.
A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process.
Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder.
Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of
plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and most
importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post.
Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in
testing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV
John Cox
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, <jim@poogiebearranch.com> wrote:
> Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8
> failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a
> myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify
> the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears
> to be a fairly typical experience.
>
> No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5
> years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having
> problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power
> settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or
> turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power
> levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially
> noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close
> to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the
> mixture itself.
>
> Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this
> in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which
> invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good"
> Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine
> monitor logs show that as well.
>
> Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new
> production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental
> factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they
> publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because
> of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in
> many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected
> engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo
> / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to
> Tempest fine-wire plugs.
>
> According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least
> tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their
> fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest
> plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any
> other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the
> new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple
> failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind
> that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and
> normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships
> first.
>
> Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish
> they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation
> needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and
> acknowledge the issues they had.
>
> Jim Parker
> N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)
>
>
> --------- Original Message ---------
> Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
> From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
> Date: 6/9/15 7:33 am
> To: "Lycoming Engine List" <lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
>
> I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
> Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and
> spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
> Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still
> about 50 per side.
> A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test.
> So that is a myth as well.
> If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
>
> Bobby
> Lyc O-320
>
>
> *
>
> s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List>
> ics.com <http://ics.com>
> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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So how do you do the resistance test? Is it just using a DC ohm-meter?
What should the resistance be?
Jack Phillips
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John Cox
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping)
was first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State,
years ago. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process.
Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work
harder. Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the
resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths
to ground and most importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark.
I like Jim's post.
Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in
testing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV
John Cox
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, <jim@poogiebearranch.com
<mailto:jim@poogiebearranch.com> > wrote:
Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8
failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a
myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to
identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately,
this appears to be a fairly typical experience.
No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last
4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been
having problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher
power settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or
turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power
levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially
noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are
close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not
attributable to the mixture itself.
Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this
in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which
invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good"
Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the
engine monitor logs show that as well.
Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new
production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental
factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they
publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch
because of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that
resulted in many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly
respected engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado
Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they
switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.
According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least
tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their
fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the
Tempest plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or
create any other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got
one of the new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to
multiple failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators).
Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old"
plugs, and normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the
older stock ships first.
Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish
they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems.
Aviation needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess
up" and acknowledge the issues they had.
Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)
--------- Original Message ---------
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net <mailto:BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>
<mailto:lycomingengines-list@matronics.com> >
I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads,
and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is
still about 50 per side.
A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm
test. So that is a myth as well.
If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
Bobby
Lyc O-320
s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
ics.com <http://ics.com>
.matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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Here's an article from Tempest with good information on "The Right Way to C
heck Spark Plug Resistance": http://tinyurl.com/phqduwf
Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: RE: LycomingEngines-List: Spa
rk Plugs
From: "Jack Philips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
So how do you do the resistance test? Is it just using a DC ohm-meter?
What should the resistance be?
Jack Phillips
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomi
ngengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) w
as first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ag
o. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process.
Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder
=2E Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of
plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and mos
t importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post
=2E
Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in test
ing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV
John Cox
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, <jim@poogiebearranch.com> wrote:
Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8
failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth
=2E It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify th
e bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears t
o be a fairly typical experience.
No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5
years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having pro
blems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings
=2E This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized a
irplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher alt
itudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defecti
ve plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires
cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself.
Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in
their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which inva
riably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champi
on plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monit
or logs show that as well.
Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new product
ion and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory emplo
yees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (fo
r the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in t
he Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs be
ing shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Tex
as / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recom
mended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.
According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacit
ly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wi
re spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs
=2E Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any othe
r "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new de
sign plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure mod
es (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most
of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal invento
ry turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first.
Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they
had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation need
s Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowl
edge the issues they had.
Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)
--------- Original Message ---------
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.
Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and
spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint.
Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still
about 50 per side.
A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. S
o that is a myth as well.
If they ain't broke don't fix'um.
Bobby
Lyc O-320
s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingE
ngines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution
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