---------------------------------------------------------- LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/09/15: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:34 AM - Spark Plugs (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 2. 09:44 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Ralph E. Capen) 3. 10:45 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (jim@PoogieBearRanch.com) 4. 12:13 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (John Cox) 5. 02:28 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Jack Philips) 6. 03:54 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (jim@PoogieBearRanch.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:11 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side. A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that is a myth as well. If they ain't broke don't fix'um. Bobby Lyc O-320 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:47 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs Good info - glad to hear it works the way it should! -----Original Message----- From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Sent: Jun 9, 2015 8:33 AM Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side. A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that is a myth as well. If they ain't broke don't fix'um. Bobby Lyc O-320 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:24 AM PST US From: jim@PoogieBearRanch.com Subject: RE: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 fa iled the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be a fairly typical experience. No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having pro blems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings =2E This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized a irplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher alt itudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defecti ve plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself. Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which inva riably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champi on plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monit or logs show that as well. Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new product ion and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory emplo yees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (fo r the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in t he Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs be ing shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Tex as / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recom mended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs. According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacit ly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wi re spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs =2E Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any othe r "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new de sign plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure mod es (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal invento ry turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first. Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation need s Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowl edge the issues they had. Jim Parker N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized) --------- Original Message --------- Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark P lugs From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side. A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. S o that is a myth as well. If they ain't broke don't fix'um. Bobby Lyc O-320 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs From: John Cox The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) was first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ago. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process. Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder. Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and most importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post. Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in testing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV John Cox On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, wrote: > Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 > failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a > myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify > the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears > to be a fairly typical experience. > > No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 > years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having > problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power > settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or > turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power > levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially > noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close > to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the > mixture itself. > > Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this > in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which > invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" > Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine > monitor logs show that as well. > > Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new > production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental > factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they > publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because > of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in > many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected > engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo > / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to > Tempest fine-wire plugs. > > According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least > tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their > fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest > plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any > other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the > new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple > failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind > that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and > normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships > first. > > Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish > they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation > needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and > acknowledge the issues they had. > > Jim Parker > N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized) > > > --------- Original Message --------- > Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs > From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net > Date: 6/9/15 7:33 am > To: "Lycoming Engine List" > > I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. > Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and > spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. > Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still > about 50 per side. > A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. > So that is a myth as well. > If they ain't broke don't fix'um. > > Bobby > Lyc O-320 > > > * > > s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:10 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs So how do you do the resistance test? Is it just using a DC ohm-meter? What should the resistance be? Jack Phillips From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:13 PM Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) was first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ago. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process. Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder. Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and most importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post. Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in testing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV John Cox On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, > wrote: Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be a fairly typical experience. No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself. Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monitor logs show that as well. Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs. According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first. Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowledge the issues they had. Jim Parker N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized) --------- Original Message --------- Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net > I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side. A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that is a myth as well. If they ain't broke don't fix'um. Bobby Lyc O-320 s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:32 PM PST US From: jim@PoogieBearRanch.com Subject: RE: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs Here's an article from Tempest with good information on "The Right Way to C heck Spark Plug Resistance": http://tinyurl.com/phqduwf Jim Parker N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot --------- Original Message --------- Subject: RE: LycomingEngines-List: Spa rk Plugs From: "Jack Philips" So how do you do the resistance test? Is it just using a DC ohm-meter? What should the resistance be? Jack Phillips From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomi ngengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:13 PM Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) w as first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ag o. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process. Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder =2E Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and mos t importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post =2E Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in test ing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV John Cox On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, wrote: Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth =2E It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify th e bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears t o be a fairly typical experience. No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having pro blems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings =2E This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized a irplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher alt itudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defecti ve plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself. Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which inva riably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champi on plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monit or logs show that as well. Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new product ion and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory emplo yees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (fo r the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in t he Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs be ing shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Tex as / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recom mended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs. According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacit ly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wi re spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs =2E Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any othe r "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new de sign plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure mod es (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal invento ry turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first. Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation need s Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowl edge the issues they had. Jim Parker N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized) --------- Original Message --------- Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Spark Plugs From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs. Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint. Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side. A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. S o that is a myth as well. If they ain't broke don't fix'um. Bobby Lyc O-320 s-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution s-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingE ngines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List h ttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lycomingengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/LycomingEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lycomingengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lycomingengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.