Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:30 AM - Oil cooler connections (Peter Sokolowski)
2. 07:06 AM - Re: Oil cooler connections (Carl Froehlich)
3. 04:37 PM - Re: Oil cooler connections (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil cooler connections |
Hi friends,
I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by my
own.
So this is the background:
Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
need some support.
So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from
below (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil
cooler bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see attached
document).
Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not
installed - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be something
real wrong.
One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler
before getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either
only through the cooler or only partial.
And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to the
plunger.
Thanks for you help
Peter
Am 23.12.2015 8:24 nachm. schrieb "Carl Froehlich" <
carl.froehlich@verizon.net>:
Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor
run). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and
coupler standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the
two $150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
Carl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oil cooler connections |
Peter,
First on our comment that =9Coil seams to flow through the cooler
before getting hot=9D. This is exactly what should happen. When
the oil is cold the cooler bypass valve is open allowing oil to bypass
the cooler. That means oil is flowing though the cooler as well a
through the bypass valve (see figure #1 of your attachment). This is
why many need to reduce cooling air to the oil cooler in the winter to
get oil temps above 180 degrees. Do not think of this bypass valve like
you do a car thermostat. They are exactly opposite in function.
You did not say if this is a new problem or not.
Not sure about your filter adapter, perhaps a diagram would help. From
what you said I think you have removed the original engine veratherm
(oil cooler bypass valve). Is this correct? If so I offer this is one
of the problems. This valve must close and shut off bypass oil when the
engine oil is hot.
Of note, the one Lancair 360 I=99m familiar with had a long
history of heat problems. It got so bad the engine failed on run-up for
takeoff. The guy who did the overhaul said he never saw heat damage
like that. If you continue to have problems you might want to revisit
some basics:
- The oil cooler is just too small. The one in the above
Lancair was significantly undersized.
- While you have taken steps to improve air to the cooler, what
did you do to improve air out of the cooler? The Lancair above cowl
exit was way too small to handle the needed engine cooling air volume.
Airflow requires a differential pressure drop across the cooler.
- Are CHTs in the 380 degree range in cruise or do they run hot
as well?
Good luck,
Carl
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Peter Sokolowski
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 4:26 AM
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Oil cooler connections
Hi friends,
I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by
my own.
So this is the background:
Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
need some support.
So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from
below (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil
cooler bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see
attached document).
Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not
installed - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be
something real wrong.
One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler
before getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either
only through the cooler or only partial.
And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to
the plunger.
Thanks for you help
Peter
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler connections |
Peter:
On Lancair's that I have worked on or seen do not have any issues with
cooling. The plenum does a fantastic job of cooling. You say you have a
Vernatherm installed with the Oil Filter Adapter. SO, why do you are you
using another bypass valve?
YOU DO NOT USE TWO Vernatherms or ByPass Valves. Use ONLY the Vernatherm on
the Oil Filter Housing.
The Vernatherm stays OPEN at low temps which circulates the oil within the
engine. Once the oil temps are high enough (180 F/85 C) the Vernatherm
CLOSES the bypass hole in the engine and NOW the oil flows to the Oil
Cooler.
Simple and effective.
NOW! If you install a second oil bypass valve the oil temperature WILL
NEVER get hot enough AT THE SECOND second valve. And the Valve will NEVER
ALLOW oil flow, so the oil cooler will NEVER become part of the cooling
system.
NOW! There are all sorts of questions, I am going to put my foot in my
mouth and make an assumption: That ALL other items are working and are
correct. Some of the questions are:
1 - Is the Oil Filter Vernatherm working correctly?
2 - Is the Vernatherm seat in the engine in good shape?
3 - Is the Sending Unit for the Oil Temp correct?
4 - Is the Gauge the Sending Unit is connected to accurate?
5 - What are the CHT's, are they with in range?
6 - What are the EGT's? Not that they matter that much, but are they above
1400 F? <-- This is MY personal limit. There are NO engine specs on Max
or Min EGT.
7 - How big and how many vanes does the oil cooler have?
Location of the Oil Cooler is a little important and I personally prefer to
have it right at the cowl inlet. BUT! Being that you have a plenum, and
again I'm ASSUMING <-- Hate doing that. That it is well installed and
the lower baffles between the cylinders are in good shape. SOooo, even if
you have a firewall or baffle mounted oil cooler it is doing well. It
should be doing well!
Let's go back to the document you attached:
Please indicate WHICH figure/configuration you have on your engine? The
one on Figure 4 requires a plug to be installed. Failure to do so will
recirculate the oil with in the engine and the oil will NOT reach the Oil
Cooler. With the results of high oil temps.
OK, back to you Peter, let's hear what you find after reviewing the above
notes.
Barry
On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:26 AM, Peter Sokolowski <air.peter@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by
> my own.
>
> So this is the background:
>
> Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
> Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
> supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
>
> In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
>
> So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
> need some support.
>
> So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from
> below (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil
> cooler bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see attached
> document).
> Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
>
> So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not
> installed - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be something
> real wrong.
>
> One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler
> before getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either
> only through the cooler or only partial.
>
> And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to the
> plunger.
>
> Thanks for you help
>
> Peter
> Am 23.12.2015 8:24 nachm. schrieb "Carl Froehlich" <
> carl.froehlich@verizon.net>:
>
> Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor
> run). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and
> coupler standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
>
>
> Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the
> two $150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
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