Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:37 PM - Re: Oil cooler connections (FLYaDIVE)
2. 01:57 PM - Re: Oil cooler connections (Peter Sokolowski)
3. 03:32 PM - Re: Oil cooler connections (Carl Froehlich)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler connections |
Peter:
Haven't heard back from you, have you solved the problem?
Barry
On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Peter Sokolowski <air.peter@googlemail.com
>
wrote:
> Barry,
>
>
> see below for answers.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for further comments and efforts.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> *Von:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *Im Auftrag von *FLYaDIV
E
> *Gesendet:* Montag, 28. M=C3=A4rz 2016 01:36
> *An:* LYCOMING ENGINES
> *Betreff:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil cooler connections
>
>
> Peter:
>
>
> On Lancair's that I have worked on or seen do not have any issues with
> cooling. The plenum does a fantastic job of cooling. You say you have a
> Vernatherm installed with the Oil Filter Adapter. SO, why do you are you
> using another bypass valve?
>
> Because it is written in the manual attached in my first mail =93 s
ee page
> 5, pic. 4 (Reinstall Plug - oh just wait =93 just
the plug. =93 my fault.)
>
> YOU DO NOT USE TWO Vernatherms or ByPass Valves. Use ONLY the Vernatherm
> on the Oil Filter Housing.
>
> Yes =93 agree, in my case it was called =9Eplunger=9D s
o I guessed it is not a
> Vernatherm =93 anyhow it is not installed.
>
> The Vernatherm stays OPEN at low temps which circulates the oil within th
e
> engine. Once the oil temps are high enough (180 F/85 C) the Vernatherm
> CLOSES the bypass hole in the engine and NOW the oil flows to the Oil
> Cooler.
>
> Simple and effective.
>
> I agree =93 I will not open a discussion who is correct =93 y
ou or Carl in the
> former mail =93 but would like to know which explanation is the cor
rect one
>
> NOW! If you install a second oil bypass valve the oil temperature WILL
> NEVER get hot enough AT THE SECOND second valve. And the Valve will NEVE
R
> ALLOW oil flow, so the oil cooler will NEVER become part of the cooling
> system.
>
> I agree and that is not the case in my engine.
>
>
> NOW! There are all sorts of questions, I am going to put my foot in my
> mouth and make an assumption: That ALL other items are working and are
> correct.
>
> I learned to question everything =93 especially in my case as I am
running
> out of solutions
>
> Some of the questions are:
>
> 1 - Is the Oil Filter Vernatherm working correctly?
>
> Next thing I will check =93 it was checked by the engine overhaul s
hop. But
> will re-check
>
> 2 - Is the Vernatherm seat in the engine in good shape?
>
> To be checked =93 see above.
>
> 3 - Is the Sending Unit for the Oil Temp correct?
>
> I tested with an independent other instrument and corrdct at least +- 5-1
0
> degree
>
> 4 - Is the Gauge the Sending Unit is connected to accurate?
>
> Yep
>
> 5 - What are the CHT's, are they with in range?
>
> They are well in the grange below 400
>
> 6 - What are the EGT's? Not that they matter that much, but are they
> above 1400 F? <-- This is MY personal limit. There are NO engine specs
> on Max or Min EGT.
>
> They are fine as well. Some differences between cylinders =93 but n
ot that
> much
>
> 7 - How big and how many vanes does the oil cooler have?
>
> It is a 10 row one from Steward, I guess around 6 inch x 4 inch x 2 inch
>
>
> Location of the Oil Cooler is a little important and I personally prefer
> to have it right at the cowl inlet. BUT! Being that you have a plenum,
> and again I'm ASSUMING <-- Hate doing that.
>
> Yes it was in front of cylinder 2, well installed and sealed. The only
> thing I can think of is differential pressure is to small =93 but o
n others
> it is working (would love to have it there)
>
> In the meantime trying all possible solutions (which were recommended to
> me) I installed it on the firewall with air supplied from the plenum duri
ng
> first try and with air from a dedicated Naca duct on a second trial. NO
> DIFFERENCE on all three configurations !
>
> That it is well installed and the lower baffles between the cylinders are
> in good shape.
>
> Yep, baffles between 1&3 and 2&4 are the original Lycmongs and are really
> good.
>
> SOooo, even if you have a firewall or baffle mounted oil cooler it is
> doing well. It should be doing well!
>
> .no =93 it is =93 UNFORTUNATELY =93 not
that=C2=B4s why I am writing hereL
>
>
> Let's go back to the document you attached:
>
> Please indicate WHICH figure/configuration you have on your engine?
>
> It is he configuration on page 2, Fig. 2 =93 Oil Filter adapter wit
h
> corresponding Type 2 Thermostatic By-Pass Valve installed. Type 1 Oil
> Cooler By-Pass is not installed =93 except the Plug as shown. Sprin
g and
> Plunger not installed.
>
> The one on Figure 4 requires a plug to be installed. Failure to do so
> will recirculate the oil with in the engine and the oil will NOT reach th
e
> Oil Cooler. With the results of high oil temps.
>
> Wait =93 I do not understand. Without the Plug the oil will flow ou
t and no
> circulation at all will happen. Or what do you mean with =9Cplug
=9D? I have
> connected the oil-cooler to =9CB=9D as shown in Figure 4 on p
age 5 =93 so have to
> seal =9CA=9D with a plug anyhow ? It can not stay op
en
>
>
> BTW =93 is there a way to connect the oil-cooler line to =9CA
=9D as well and to
> seal =9CB=9D with a plug ? What is the difference ?
>
>
> OK, back to you Peter, let's hear what you find after reviewing the above
> notes.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:26 AM, Peter Sokolowski <
> air.peter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi friends,
>
> I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by
> my own.
>
> So this is the background:
>
> Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
> Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
> supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
>
> In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
>
> So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
> need some support.
>
> So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from
> below (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil
> cooler bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see attach
ed
> document).
> Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
>
> So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not
> installed - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be somethi
ng
> real wrong.
>
> One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler
> before getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either
> only through the cooler or only partial.
>
> And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to the
> plunger.
>
> Thanks for you help
>
> Peter
>
> Am 23.12.2015 8:24 nachm. schrieb "Carl Froehlich" <
> carl.froehlich@verizon.net>:
>
> Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor
> run). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and
> coupler standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
>
>
> Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the
> two $150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler connections |
Hi Barry,
Thanks for asking. No, problem still existing...
I have dismounted the filter adapter and the vernatherm. Pictures attached.
I tested the vernatherm and it works within spec.
So what else can be wrong?
Valve seat, oil pressure...?
I am running out of ideas,
I am thinking about separate NACA ducts for the cooler in and outlet...
But on other Lancair it is not necessary... So what else could be the issue
?
Thanks in advance
Peter
Am 04.04.2016 10:40 nachm. schrieb "FLYaDIVE" <flyadive@gmail.com>:
> Peter:
>
> Haven't heard back from you, have you solved the problem?
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Peter Sokolowski <
> air.peter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Barry,
>>
>>
>>
>> see below for answers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for further comments and efforts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com] *Im Auftrag von *
>> FLYaDIVE
>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 28. M=C3=A4rz 2016 01:36
>> *An:* LYCOMING ENGINES
>> *Betreff:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil cooler connections
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Lancair's that I have worked on or seen do not have any issues with
>> cooling. The plenum does a fantastic job of cooling. You say you have
a
>> Vernatherm installed with the Oil Filter Adapter. SO, why do you are yo
u
>> using another bypass valve?
>>
>> Because it is written in the manual attached in my first mail =93
see page
>> 5, pic. 4 (Reinstall Plug - oh just wait =93 jus
t the plug. =93 my fault.)
>>
>> YOU DO NOT USE TWO Vernatherms or ByPass Valves. Use ONLY the Vernatherm
>> on the Oil Filter Housing.
>>
>> Yes =93 agree, in my case it was called =9Eplunger=9D
so I guessed it is not a
>> Vernatherm =93 anyhow it is not installed.
>>
>> The Vernatherm stays OPEN at low temps which circulates the oil within
>> the engine. Once the oil temps are high enough (180 F/85 C) the Vernath
erm
>> CLOSES the bypass hole in the engine and NOW the oil flows to the Oil
>> Cooler.
>>
>> Simple and effective.
>>
>> I agree =93 I will not open a discussion who is correct =93
you or Carl in
>> the former mail =93 but would like to know which explanation is th
e correct
>> one
>>
>> NOW! If you install a second oil bypass valve the oil temperature WILL
>> NEVER get hot enough AT THE SECOND second valve. And the Valve will NEV
ER
>> ALLOW oil flow, so the oil cooler will NEVER become part of the cooling
>> system.
>>
>> I agree and that is not the case in my engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> NOW! There are all sorts of questions, I am going to put my foot in my
>> mouth and make an assumption: That ALL other items are working and are
>> correct.
>>
>> I learned to question everything =93 especially in my case as I am
running
>> out of solutions
>>
>> Some of the questions are:
>>
>> 1 - Is the Oil Filter Vernatherm working correctly?
>>
>> Next thing I will check =93 it was checked by the engine overhaul
shop.
>> But will re-check
>>
>> 2 - Is the Vernatherm seat in the engine in good shape?
>>
>> To be checked =93 see above.
>>
>> 3 - Is the Sending Unit for the Oil Temp correct?
>>
>> I tested with an independent other instrument and corrdct at least +-
>> 5-10 degree
>>
>> 4 - Is the Gauge the Sending Unit is connected to accurate?
>>
>> Yep
>>
>> 5 - What are the CHT's, are they with in range?
>>
>> They are well in the grange below 400
>>
>> 6 - What are the EGT's? Not that they matter that much, but are they
>> above 1400 F? <-- This is MY personal limit. There are NO engine spec
s
>> on Max or Min EGT.
>>
>> They are fine as well. Some differences between cylinders =93 but
not that
>> much
>>
>> 7 - How big and how many vanes does the oil cooler have?
>>
>> It is a 10 row one from Steward, I guess around 6 inch x 4 inch x 2 inch
>>
>>
>>
>> Location of the Oil Cooler is a little important and I personally prefer
>> to have it right at the cowl inlet. BUT! Being that you have a plenum,
>> and again I'm ASSUMING <-- Hate doing that.
>>
>> Yes it was in front of cylinder 2, well installed and sealed. The only
>> thing I can think of is differential pressure is to small =93 but
on others
>> it is working (would love to have it there)
>>
>> In the meantime trying all possible solutions (which were recommended to
>> me) I installed it on the firewall with air supplied from the plenum dur
ing
>> first try and with air from a dedicated Naca duct on a second trial. NO
>> DIFFERENCE on all three configurations !
>>
>> That it is well installed and the lower baffles between the cylinders ar
e
>> in good shape.
>>
>> Yep, baffles between 1&3 and 2&4 are the original Lycmongs and are reall
y
>> good.
>>
>> SOooo, even if you have a firewall or baffle mounted oil cooler it is
>> doing well. It should be doing well!
>>
>> .no =93 it is =93 UNFORTUNATELY =93 not
that=C2=B4s why I am writing hereL
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's go back to the document you attached:
>>
>> Please indicate WHICH figure/configuration you have on your engine?
>>
>> It is he configuration on page 2, Fig. 2 =93 Oil Filter adapter wi
th
>> corresponding Type 2 Thermostatic By-Pass Valve installed. Type 1 Oil
>> Cooler By-Pass is not installed =93 except the Plug as shown. Spri
ng and
>> Plunger not installed.
>>
>> The one on Figure 4 requires a plug to be installed. Failure to do so
>> will recirculate the oil with in the engine and the oil will NOT reach t
he
>> Oil Cooler. With the results of high oil temps.
>>
>> Wait =93 I do not understand. Without the Plug the oil will flow o
ut and no
>> circulation at all will happen. Or what do you mean with =9Cplug
=9D? I have
>> connected the oil-cooler to =9CB=9D as shown in Figure 4 on
page 5 =93 so have to
>> seal =9CA=9D with a plug anyhow ? It can not stay o
pen
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW =93 is there a way to connect the oil-cooler line to =9C
A=9D as well and to
>> seal =9CB=9D with a plug ? What is the difference ?
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, back to you Peter, let's hear what you find after reviewing the abov
e
>> notes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:26 AM, Peter Sokolowski <
>> air.peter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by
>> my own.
>>
>> So this is the background:
>>
>> Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
>> Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
>> supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
>>
>> In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
>>
>> So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
>> need some support.
>>
>> So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from
>> below (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil
>> cooler bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see attac
hed
>> document).
>> Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
>>
>> So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not
>> installed - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be someth
ing
>> real wrong.
>>
>> One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler
>> before getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either
>> only through the cooler or only partial.
>>
>> And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to th
e
>> plunger.
>>
>> Thanks for you help
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Am 23.12.2015 8:24 nachm. schrieb "Carl Froehlich" <
>> carl.froehlich@verizon.net>:
>>
>> Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor
>> run). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and
>> coupler standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
>>
>>
>>
>> Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the
>> two $150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler connections |
As you have eliminated everything else, you are left with the oil cooler be
ing just too small.
Replace the cooler with an Airflow Systems 2006X cooler: http://www.aircraft
spruce.com/catalog/eppages/xseriesOilCooler.php
Carl
> On Apr 4, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Peter Sokolowski <air.peter@googlemail.com> wr
ote:
>
> Hi Barry,
> Thanks for asking. No, problem still existing...
> I have dismounted the filter adapter and the vernatherm. Pictures attached
.
> I tested the vernatherm and it works within spec.
> So what else can be wrong?
> Valve seat, oil pressure...?
> I am running out of ideas,
> I am thinking about separate NACA ducts for the cooler in and outlet...
> But on other Lancair it is not necessary... So what else could be the issu
e?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Peter
>
> Am 04.04.2016 10:40 nachm. schrieb "FLYaDIVE" <flyadive@gmail.com>:
>> Peter:
>>
>> Haven't heard back from you, have you solved the problem?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Peter Sokolowski <air.peter@googlemail.
com> wrote:
>>> Barry,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> see below for answers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for further comments and efforts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Von: owner-lycomingengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycom
ingengines-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von FLYaDIVE
>>> Gesendet: Montag, 28. M=C3=A4rz 2016 01:36
>>> An: LYCOMING ENGINES
>>> Betreff: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil cooler connections
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Lancair's that I have worked on or seen do not have any issues with c
ooling. The plenum does a fantastic job of cooling. You say you have a Ver
natherm installed with the Oil Filter Adapter. SO, why do you are you using
another bypass valve?
>>>
>>> Because it is written in the manual attached in my first mail =93 s
ee page 5, pic. 4 (Reinstall Plug - oh just wait =93
just the plug. =93 my fault.)
>>>
>>> YOU DO NOT USE TWO Vernatherms or ByPass Valves. Use ONLY the Vernatherm
on the Oil Filter Housing.
>>>
>>> Yes =93 agree, in my case it was called =9Eplunger=9D s
o I guessed it is not a Vernatherm =93 anyhow it is not installed.
>>>
>>> The Vernatherm stays OPEN at low temps which circulates the oil within t
he engine. Once the oil temps are high enough (180 F/85 C) the Vernatherm C
LOSES the bypass hole in the engine and NOW the oil flows to the Oil Cooler.
>>>
>>> Simple and effective.
>>>
>>> I agree =93 I will not open a discussion who is correct =93 y
ou or Carl in the former mail =93 but would like to know which explana
tion is the correct one
>>>
>>> NOW! If you install a second oil bypass valve the oil temperature WILL N
EVER get hot enough AT THE SECOND second valve. And the Valve will NEVER AL
LOW oil flow, so the oil cooler will NEVER become part of the cooling system
.
>>>
>>> I agree and that is not the case in my engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NOW! There are all sorts of questions, I am going to put my foot in my m
outh and make an assumption: That ALL other items are working and are corre
ct.
>>>
>>> I learned to question everything =93 especially in my case as I am
running out of solutions
>>>
>>> Some of the questions are:
>>>
>>> 1 - Is the Oil Filter Vernatherm working correctly?
>>>
>>> Next thing I will check =93 it was checked by the engine overhaul s
hop. But will re-check
>>>
>>> 2 - Is the Vernatherm seat in the engine in good shape?
>>>
>>> To be checked =93 see above.
>>>
>>> 3 - Is the Sending Unit for the Oil Temp correct?
>>>
>>> I tested with an independent other instrument and corrdct at least +- 5-
10 degree
>>>
>>> 4 - Is the Gauge the Sending Unit is connected to accurate?
>>>
>>> Yep
>>>
>>> 5 - What are the CHT's, are they with in range?
>>>
>>> They are well in the grange below 400
>>>
>>> 6 - What are the EGT's? Not that they matter that much, but are they ab
ove 1400 F? <-- This is MY personal limit. There are NO engine specs on M
ax or Min EGT.
>>>
>>> They are fine as well. Some differences between cylinders =93 but n
ot that much
>>>
>>> 7 - How big and how many vanes does the oil cooler have?
>>>
>>> It is a 10 row one from Steward, I guess around 6 inch x 4 inch x 2 inch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Location of the Oil Cooler is a little important and I personally prefer
to have it right at the cowl inlet. BUT! Being that you have a plenum, an
d again I'm ASSUMING <-- Hate doing that.
>>>
>>> Yes it was in front of cylinder 2, well installed and sealed. The only t
hing I can think of is differential pressure is to small =93 but on ot
hers it is working (would love to have it there)
>>>
>>> In the meantime trying all possible solutions (which were recommended to
me) I installed it on the firewall with air supplied from the plenum during
first try and with air from a dedicated Naca duct on a second trial. NO DIFF
ERENCE on all three configurations !
>>>
>>> That it is well installed and the lower baffles between the cylinders ar
e in good shape.
>>>
>>> Yep, baffles between 1&3 and 2&4 are the original Lycmongs and are reall
y good.
>>>
>>> SOooo, even if you have a firewall or baffle mounted oil cooler it is do
ing well. It should be doing well!
>>>
>>> .no =93 it is =93 UNFORTUNATELY =93 not
that=C2=B4s why I am writing hereL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's go back to the document you attached:
>>>
>>> Please indicate WHICH figure/configuration you have on your engine?
>>>
>>> It is he configuration on page 2, Fig. 2 =93 Oil Filter adapter wi
th corresponding Type 2 Thermostatic By-Pass Valve installed. Type 1 Oil Coo
ler By-Pass is not installed =93 except the Plug as shown. Spring and P
lunger not installed.
>>>
>>> The one on Figure 4 requires a plug to be installed. Failure to do so w
ill recirculate the oil with in the engine and the oil will NOT reach the Oi
l Cooler. With the results of high oil temps.
>>>
>>> Wait =93 I do not understand. Without the Plug the oil will flow o
ut and no circulation at all will happen. Or what do you mean with =9C
plug=9D? I have connected the oil-cooler to =9CB=9D as sho
wn in Figure 4 on page 5 =93 so have to seal =9CA=9D with a
plug anyhow ? It can not stay open
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW =93 is there a way to connect the oil-cooler line to =9C
A=9D as well and to seal =9CB=9D with a plug ? What is the
difference ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, back to you Peter, let's hear what you find after reviewing the abov
e notes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:26 AM, Peter Sokolowski <air.peter@googlemail.
com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi friends,
>>>
>>> I have as significant problem with my oil temps which I can not solve by
my own.
>>>
>>> So this is the background:
>>>
>>> Lycoming O360 F1A6, in a Lancair 360 with external cooler connected.
>>> Tried cooler in front of cylinder 2, cooler behind the firewall with air
supplied from plenum, as well as air supplied direct from Nava duct.
>>>
>>> In all cases temps were much to high with no significant changes.
>>>
>>> So I went back to the connections I used to connect the cooler - where I
need some support.
>>>
>>> So I have an Olli filter adapter with the thermostatic screwed in from b
elow (vernatherm). One of the docs I use says that I still need the oil cool
er bypass plunger if I connect to oil cooler connection B (see attached docu
ment).
>>> Return line from cooler is not in question I think.
>>>
>>> So my question is - do I need the plunger - which is presently not insta
lled - or what I am doing wrong? - and I mean there must be something real w
rong.
>>>
>>> One more observation - the oil seams to flow already through the cooler b
efore getting the hot, I.e. warm. So I suspect the oil following either only
through the cooler or only partial.
>>>
>>> And yes - I will check the vernatherm to - but my questions refers to th
e plunger.
>>>
>>> Thanks for you help
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> Am 23.12.2015 8:24 nachm. schrieb "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@veriz
on.net>:
>>>
>>> Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor r
un). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and couple
r standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the
two $150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> <IMG_20160403_232454.jpg>
> <IMG_20160403_222904.jpg>
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