Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:29 AM - Radial engine: more pro than con? (Chris In Madison)
2. 11:56 AM - Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts (ScottA)
3. 12:12 PM - Re: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
4. 12:16 PM - Re: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 12:24 PM - Re: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts (ScottA)
6. 02:49 PM - Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? (Adam Grosser)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Radial engine: more pro than con? |
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Hello all,
I'm curious about the radial engine as a powerplant for the Murphy Moose and wondered
how those flying The M14P feel about it. I've been perusing a number of
sites dedicated to the Moose, spending a lot of time going through GoFLyAMoose.com
and one or two others. On one of the sites, there was a rather detailed
article going over the engine in general, and it made it out to be (or at least
I read it that way) that the engine is a potential maintenance hassle. Oil seeping
into the combustion chambers, broken/bent connecting rods, hydraulic lock,
etc. The overall air of the article didn't seem positive to me. Are there
any articles anyone can reference that discuss positive aspects of this engine?
I'd love to see someone say something nice about it :-)
Regardless, Murphy makes a pretty strong point that this engine has more power
for half the price of a comparable Lyc or Continental. So with that in mind, do
you feel that the radial is a reasonable fit for this plane, dollar for dollar?
Can your average A/P maintain one of these engines, or would I need to seek
out special service? Is the availabity of service parts good?
I appreciate your insight.
Thanks and best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54719#54719
Message 2
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| Subject: | Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts |
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
I stripped a brass exhaust clamp bolt. Any reason why I cant put an AN or stainless
bolt in there with some high temp anti-seize on it instead?
So far it appears to me (about 40 hours on my M14) if you can keep the exhaust
and intake port nuts tight and the segmented exhaust section from leaking there
is no reason to have ANY oil mess at all on the M14 under the cowl.
Scott
Moose 174
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54725#54725
Message 3
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| Subject: | Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts |
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I have put stainless hardware in there with no apparent issues that I could ever
see.
It's pretty hard to keep oil from seeping out of those segmented exhaust seals.
There really is no "seal" there per se, other than a thin steel piece, followed
by an asbestos bad covered in thin steel, followed by the clamp. This works
fairly well for exhaust assuming that you keep it in "as new" condition, but
oil seems to find a way to seep right through it. Not enough to drop down INSIDE
the cowl though.
In the same vein, it is amazing to learn all the places that the M-14 can leak
oil. It's a real chore to keep anything running a radial completely dry of oil
inside the cowl. Everyone tries...but there is usually one darn leak somewhere
that is really hard to nail down. :-=)
Good luck,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ScottA
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 14:56
Subject: M14PEngines-List: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
I stripped a brass exhaust clamp bolt. Any reason why I canEUR(tm)t put an AN
or stainless bolt in there with some high temp anti-seize on it instead?
So far it appears to me (about 40 hours on my M14) if you can keep the exhaust
and intake port nuts tight and the segmented exhaust section from leaking there
is no reason to have ANY oil mess at all on the M14 under the cowl.
Scott
Moose 174
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54725#54725
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts |
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
No reason at all.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts
> --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
>
> I stripped a brass exhaust clamp bolt. Any reason why I can?Tt put an AN
> or stainless bolt in there with some high temp anti-seize on it instead?
>
> So far it appears to me (about 40 hours on my M14) if you can keep the
> exhaust and intake port nuts tight and the segmented exhaust section from
> leaking there is no reason to have ANY oil mess at all on the M14 under
> the cowl.
>
> Scott
> Moose 174
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54725#54725
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Russian Brass Exhaust Clamp bolts |
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
Thanks guys.
I know I will never be "oil free" but it is way cleaner than I expected (so far).
I was surprised how loose the intake port nuts were - I didn't check them until
about an hour on the motor. Probably could have tightened them from the
get go.
The few I have seen with the newer aftermarket, slip joint exhaust ($$) are very
nice.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54741#54741
Message 6
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| Subject: | Radial engine: more pro than con? |
Hi Chris:
I don't have a Murphy Moose (although I am a great fan of the design).
I do have an M14 powered Pitts Model 12. I have nothing but good things
to say about the engine. It starts easily hot or cold, puts out a ton
of power, and is easy to maintain. On the downside, it is a radial, so
it does both consume and drip more oil than a typical flat-opposed
aircraft engine.
You can avoid most of the unpleasant aspects common to all radial
engines with a combination of a few parts, and a few diligent
procedures. I'd heartily recommend all of the parts that Jim Kimball
Enterprises sells for the M14. They have a fitting kit that converts
all the Russian fittings to standard AN hardware. They make an intake
drain kit, an oil shut-off, and a sump pump. By installing these three
items, you will mitigate most of the oil dripping, hydraulic lock
problems. They have recently come out with their own exhaust which is
significantly lighter and easier to install than the Russian exhausts.
On the operations side I do the following before each flight: open the
intake drain. Pull the propeller through 18 blades to clear the lower
cylinders. Close the intake drain, and go fly. Upon return, shut off
the oil, run the sump pump until the oil is cleared, and re-open the
intake drain. Never had anything remotely problematic.
Lastly, I love the pneumatic start. I know a bunch of the Moose folks
have opted for the electric starter option, but I've had great luck with
the air system.
Good luck
Adam
________________________________
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Chris In
Madison
Sent: Mon 8/14/2006 11:29 AM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: Radial engine: more pro than con?
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison"
<cowens@cnw.com>
Hello all,
I'm curious about the radial engine as a powerplant for the Murphy Moose
and wondered how those flying The M14P feel about it. I've been perusing
a number of sites dedicated to the Moose, spending a lot of time going
through GoFLyAMoose.com and one or two others. On one of the sites,
there was a rather detailed article going over the engine in general,
and it made it out to be (or at least I read it that way) that the
engine is a potential maintenance hassle. Oil seeping into the
combustion chambers, broken/bent connecting rods, hydraulic lock, etc.
The overall air of the article didn't seem positive to me. Are there
any articles anyone can reference that discuss positive aspects of this
engine? I'd love to see someone say something nice about it :-)
Regardless, Murphy makes a pretty strong point that this engine has more
power for half the price of a comparable Lyc or Continental. So with
that in mind, do you feel that the radial is a reasonable fit for this
plane, dollar for dollar? Can your average A/P maintain one of these
engines, or would I need to seek out special service? Is the availabity
of service parts good?
I appreciate your insight.
Thanks and best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54719#54719
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