---------------------------------------------------------- M14PEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/22/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:13 AM - M-14 russian vs. romanian (Bart C) 2. 07:15 AM - M-14 russian vs. romanian (Bart C) 3. 08:30 AM - Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (Eddie Moran) 4. 09:35 AM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (BPA) 5. 09:57 AM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (A. Dennis Savarese) 6. 11:51 AM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (George Coy) 7. 12:54 PM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (PeteAbbott@aol.com) 8. 01:00 PM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (Steve Culp) 9. 04:18 PM - Re: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle (Eddie Moran) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:30 AM PST US From: Bart C Subject: M14PEngines-List: M-14 russian vs. romanian Hi Everyone, If there someone on the list that is familiar enough with the differences between Russian and Romanian manufactured M-14's I'd appreciate it they could provide a brief outline of those differences. In reading through various online articles and forum posts I've picked up that there is something of a bias against the Russian manufactured engines but I'm not sure why. Did either country manufacture the entire engine in house or did one import from the other? Do the PF engines follow the same bloodlines as the different P's or were all of the PF engines made in one place? Thanks in advance. Bart Cocchiola ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:17 AM PST US From: Bart C Subject: M14PEngines-List: M-14 russian vs. romanian I may have posted this to the wrong address so I'm sending it again. Sorry if you receive it in duplicate. Hi Everyone, If there someone on the list that is familiar enough with the differences between Russian and Romanian manufactured M-14's I'd appreciate it they could provide a brief outline of those differences. In reading through various online articles and forum posts I've picked up that there is something of a bias against the Russian manufactured engines but I'm not sure why. Did either country manufacture the entire engine in house or did one import from the other? Do the PF engines follow the same bloodlines as the different P's or were all of the PF engines made in one place? Thanks in advance. Bart Cocchiola ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:00 AM PST US From: Eddie Moran Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle From: "BPA" Just a thought, but would it be possible that when advancing the throttle that the cable my have a little bit of deflection causing the arm to not move immediately and then suddenly advances? Allen Barrett BPE, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Moran Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran ________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:45 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Eddie, The problem you've described is quite common on the M14P, particularly in hot weather. It is related to the acceleration pump and its associated jet. There is a set of jets that originally was used to "adjust" the fuel flow when advancing the throttle. But the set of jets is now extremely difficult to find. A solution we now use is to literally plug the acceleration pump jet and reinstall it. It will definitely cure the hesitation problem which of course, get's your attention when you're on short final and you advance the throttle a little bit. Some people solder the hole in the jet closed. Others have fabricated a screw-in plug. I have used JB Weld epoxy and let it cure overnight. It also works quite well. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie Moran To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:48 AM PST US From: "George Coy" Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle As others have said it is normal. It can be cured by gentle initial application of the throttle from idle. More important is when you have closed the throttle in the air to descend. Here you need to "clear the throttle" every 20 to 30 seconds. and better yet train yourself to recognize "zero Thrust" feeling and use it on the short final when you need it. I have always carried a little throttle until well into the round-out and flair. This is a 621 cu inch engine and with the throttle closed it is a great dynamic brake. George _____ From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Moran Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:30 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran _____ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:59 PM PST US From: PeteAbbott@aol.com Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle A question for Dennis regarding his answer to this question. Is it a problem with the engine running lean or rich? In the old days, when I was a hot rodder, we had accelerator pumps, when you gave there full throttle and the quads opened up the engine would hastate do to running lean. The exc pump would inject raw fuel into the intake and prevent this hesitation. I admit that I have never been inside my Yak 52 carb so I really do not know how it works. Please enlighten me. Thanks Pete N852GC ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:04 PM PST US From: Steve Culp Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Our Sukoi was doing that back in 1991. Les Crowder told me to weld the jet up redrill smaller. Then Ben Morfue studied the manual and said to just weld the ****** up and I have been doing that every since on quite a few M-14Ps and it has always taken the studder out of them. The second thing that has been funny over the years is not many people adjust the carbs and the mixture adjustment on the lower right needs to be adjusted after the first few hours. Most M-14Ps mixture covers are still factory sealed with the factory safety wire and tag on the cover. Pretty easy to adjust. Just have someone in the plane and adjust at low and intermediate rpms. Steve Culp BPA wrote: Just a thought, but would it be possible that when advancing the throttle that the cable my have a little bit of deflection causing the arm to not move immediately and then suddenly advances? Allen Barrett BPE, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Moran Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:03 PM PST US From: Eddie Moran Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Well, I have decided. When I get home I am going to weld the little ******. Thanks to all who helped. Eddie Steve Culp wrote: Our Sukoi was doing that back in 1991. Les Crowder told me to weld the jet up redrill smaller. Then Ben Morfue studied the manual and said to just weld the ****** up and I have been doing that every since on quite a few M-14Ps and it has always taken the studder out of them. The second thing that has been funny over the years is not many people adjust the carbs and the mixture adjustment on the lower right needs to be adjusted after the first few hours. Most M-14Ps mixture covers are still factory sealed with the factory safety wire and tag on the cover. Pretty easy to adjust. Just have someone in the plane and adjust at low and intermediate rpms. Steve Culp BPA wrote: Just a thought, but would it be possible that when advancing the throttle that the cable my have a little bit of deflection causing the arm to not move immediately and then suddenly advances? Allen Barrett BPE, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Moran Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Engine hesitates when advancing throttle Hi, I have a M14 installed in my Murphy Moose. The engine runs great and I have flown the aircraft already. Here is my situation. I have a Vernier throttle cable installed directly to a fabricated throttle arm. We had determined that the original "arm" was too short and gave us a very small throw with the direct cable. While doing the "high speed" taxi tests I noted a strong hesitation while advancing the throttle. The hesitation or "burp" accured right during the initial throttle application. It was short but "disturbing". The engine then picked back up and accelerated rapidly to full power. I have done the throttle movement just using the "twist the blue knob" on the Vernier cable and the acceleration is what you would expect by pushing in a "normal" throttle. It only takes a few twists, say 4 or 5 to get a lot of engine response. I have inspected the carb for any loose or missing plugs or any anomalies. There were none. The air filter and air box are all OK. I am thinking that the throttle arm on the carb might be a bit short creating a "too small" of a throw when the throttle is "pushed in". Does this sound like a likely fix? Any other ideas or previous experience with this problem? Eddie Moran --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. 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