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1. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power? (Yak Pilot)
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| Subject: | Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power? |
Wasn't the B model intended for helicoptor use?- If so, then what you sai
d would make sense.- =0A=0AThanks for confirming the info Mark =0A=0AMerr
y Christmas!=0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0AFrom: Mark Davis <mark@pld.com>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.co
m=0ASent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:12:46 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngi
nes-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0AHere's the info I fo
und from several different sources:=0A-=0AM14P---------
-------------------------
-------------------------
M14B=0ABlower ratio:- 8.16 to 1--------------
--------------------- 8.65 to 1
=0AComp ratio:- 6.3 to 1----------------
-----------------------6.2 to
1=0AHP: 290 continuous-----------------
------------------------300
continuous=0AHP: 360 for 10 minutes-------------
---------------------- 350 for
30 minutes=0A-=0AA little higher blower ratio traded for a little lower c
ompression ratio.- Maybe so you can run it at the higher continuous power
settings for a longer period?=0A-=0AMark Davis=0AN44YK=0A----- Original
Message ----- =0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0AS
ent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:16 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List
: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0ANever confirmed personally, and
I wish someone who knows for sure WOULD say so, but I also heard that the
"B" ,model spins the blower harder.- Not sure of the exact ratio but betw
een the P and PF speed.- =0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bel
lsouth.net>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, December
23, 2008 9:23:23 AM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 5
2 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0AThanks for the info George.=0AMerry Christmas,
=0ADennis=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: George Coy =0ATo: m14peng
ines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:11 AM=0ASubje
ct: RE: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0AThe
only reason that I am a little familiar with this is that we had several n
ew M14B engines converted to M14PF engines for a customer a few years ago.
The work was done at Motorstar, the-Romanian factory. The were- surpris
ed at the many differences and commented that the internal accessory drive
shafts and gears were much more substantial than the M14P shafts and gears.
I also know that the few M14B instillations have had trouble with the oil
pump fittings clearing the motor mounts. =0A=0AGeorge Coy=0ACoy Aircraft Sa
les=0A714 Airport Rd.=0ASwanton VT 05488=0A802-868-5633 off=0A802-363-5782
cell=0Ageorge.coy@gmail.com=0ASKYPE george.coy=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________
_______________=0AFrom: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto
:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savare
se=0ASent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:21 AM=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matron
ics.com=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose
power?=0A=0A=0AI appreciate the enlightenment George.- Up until your emai
l and based on other inputs from some pretty well informed people (at least
I thought so anyway), I-deduced the B could be made into a P by simply c
hanging the nose case.- I surely won't make that mistake again.=0ADennis
=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: George Coy =0ATo: m14p
engines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:06 AM=0ASu
bject: RE: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A
Dennis,=0A-----I do not pretend to know all the differences betwe
en the engines, but I do know the M14P and M14B have a lot of differences i
ncluding the carburetor. Simply changing nose cases does not do it. The M14
B was not intended for aerobatic use and needs some internal changes to all
ow for inverted operations. The accessory case drive and the oil pump are d
ifferent. =0A-=0ABe careful about these things.=0A=0AGeorge Coy=0ACoy Air
craft Sales=0A714 Airport Rd.=0ASwanton VT 05488=0A802-868-5633 off=0A802-3
63-5782 cell=0Ageorge.coy@gmail.com=0ASKYPE george.coy=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Denni
s Savarese=0ASent: Monday, December 22, 2008 4:59 PM=0ATo: m14pengines-list
@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14
p lose power?=0A=0A=0AEddie, the B and the P have the same carburetor.- T
he only difference between the B and the P is the nose case.- R and R the
nose case on the B with a nose case from a P and you have a P engine.=0ADe
nnis=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Eddie Moran =0ATo: m14pengi
nes-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:50 PM=0ASubject
: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0ABy th
e "same problem" I was referring to the hesitation when "advancing" the thr
ust lever.=0A=0A--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii@yahoo.com>
wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii@yahoo.com>=0ASubject: Re: Re: M
14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0ATo: m14pengines-lis
t@matronics.com=0ADate: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:45 PM=0A=0A=0ANot that
anyone cares.... but just to add to our knowledge base.- My M14 is a "B"
, had the same problem and was cured by the jet mod.=0A=0AEddie Moran=0A=0A
--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Yak Pi
lot <yakplt@yahoo.com>=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Ya
k 52 m14p lose power?=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ADate: Monday,
December 22, 2008, 1:31 PM=0A=0A=0AGREAT INFO!- =0A=0AThanks!=0A=0AMark
=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: A. Dennis Sav
arese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:25:46 AM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-L
ist: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0AActually Mark, the JPI FS
-450G is relatively inexpensive.- Gulf Coast and Pacific Coast Avionics a
re/were offering a $175-mail-in rebate making the instrument about $305.
- LOTS of information for $305.- Easy install.- If you decide to orde
r one, make sure you order the FS-450G because the "G" instrument includes
the Floscan model 231 transducer.=0ADennis=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, D
ecember 22, 2008 10:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my
Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0AI am glad to know that you have verified that
with such a calibrated instrument Dennis.- I sure would like to have one
of those things!- You were also correct about the P vs. the PF deal.-
I hate to be wrong,-but it appears that I clearly was, and Kevin was ther
e to verify it from the very beginning!- =0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0A-
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: A. Dennis Savarese <ds
avarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon
day, December 22, 2008 4:15:46 AM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why
would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0AI acquired the "fix" from our frie
nd George Coy.=0A-=0AAll good input Mark.- I also agree one can pull th
e throttle back until one can see a slight decrease in MP and save fuel.-
This is proven by watching the JPI fuel flow instrument installed in my ai
rplane as well as others.=0A-=0ADennis=0A=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, D
ecember 21, 2008 10:01 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my
Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0AWas not trying to disagree or start an argume
nt with you Dennis .- Just did not believe that this cure was applicable
to the problem being described.- Respectfully, I still do not.- =0A=0AR
egarding the stumble in throttle movement.- I have talked to many people
about this pressure carb.- A lot of people think they have this thing ful
ly figured out and I have some doubts there since their explanations seem t
o differ from the mechanics I have talked to that are Russians themselves a
nd were trained in that country.- I know that my personal understanding i
s much less than complete to put it mildly.- I do not have the personal f
irst hand experience to back this up, but from what I have seen one Russian
do, it appears that the "P" model engines that I have seen stumble are usu
ally able to be cured without plugging the accel pump.- Some cases have r
equired changing air bleed jets to values that "by the book" seemed to be r
ather extreme, but the change then allowed the accel pump jet to be pretty
much- left alone, or operated withinn normal ranges but never plugged.-
This is problematic in that this puts strong suspicion on proper
operation of the diaphragms in that the-engine was possibly over rich in
the transition -range to begin with. -My comment about P vs. PF engine
s was not meant to imply that the problem could not happen with a P model,
but that in every case I have seen it could be cured by exercising the comp
lete range of adjustments possible with this carb, further that while it ma
y have been tried and used successfully with the P model, that according to
my sources, it was originally intended for the PF model where this problem
happens more often.- I am not sure who "invented" this mod.... Seems to
me I was told once... might have been you, George Coy,- I really am not s
ure.- I hope someone chimes in regarding this so that if I am wrong on th
at point,---I can be corrected.-- Given that there is no magic in
how an engine burns fuel, and that there are a lot of P models that run pe
rfectly without the accel jet plugged, it seems to me that an engine that d
oes
not run right has something out of adjustment (or just not working right i
nternally) and does not need a carb design change.- No question that the
mod works on some engines, but to me it is a matter of robbing Peter to pay
Paul.- =0A=0ABottom line, no one around here has a flow bench for these
things that I know of, or has tried to truly tackle over-hauling one and th
en charting the flow curves on this side of the pond, and since the darn th
ings are no longer in production, long term users may eventually switch to
fuel injection anyway.-- =0A=0AWhile New Bern is not a big airport for
Russian engines,-we have had 5 aircraft with P model engines, all of whic
h ran perfectly without stumble, and another 4 with PF models, ALL of which
stumble some worse than others.- =0A=0A=0AI was told that the carb does
have a circuit for WOT mixture enrichment.- I was also informed the opera
tor can pull the throttle back until a very small change in manifold pressu
re is seen in order to save fuel with minimum performance loss.- Both pie
ces of info came from Russian sources directly, if that means anything.-
=0A-=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AF
rom: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: m14pengines-lis
t@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:00:34 PM=0ASubject: Re:
Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0AMark,
=0AThere are many, many M14P's, 360 HP engines that exhibit the throttle re
sponse hesitation.- The problem is not limited to the PF engine only.-
The problem of throttle response hesitation can be reduced by-changing th
e accelerator pump jet down to-a smaller diameter.- The smallest accele
rator pump jet is .9-mm and I can say from experience, changing to the .9
mm jet does not totally eliminate the problem on those engines that exhibi
t the problem.=0A-=0AI too have plugged many an accelerator pump jet to s
top the hesitation problem on both P and PF engines.- My opinion is, the
accelerator pump jet provides additional fuel during WOT-which helps-to
cool the cylinders (richer mixture).- I'm not sure what the long term im
pact might be by plugging the accelerator pump jet.=0A-=0ADennis=0A-=0A
----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@mat
ronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:42 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: M1
4PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0AI'll take some fl
ames if necessary, but I feel I must point out that this mod was actually i
ntended for fixing the throttle lag experienced in a lot of M-14PF model en
gines (400HP) and NOT for the M-14P model, which is the straight 360 HP eng
ine.- A normal M-14P engine should run perfectly WITHOUT needing this mod
ification.- =0A=0APoint number two.- Something that has worked normally
in the past, and then suddenly starts working abnormally, or in a way diff
erent from in the past is usually happening because something has changed a
nd not because something needs to be modified.- I think this problem meet
s that description.- =0A=0AThis particular engine lost power when throttl
ed back.- It did not stumble and falter when the throttle was advanced fr
om idle on the deck.- This does not sound like an accelerator pump issue.
... ice possibly, water in the fuel, low fuel pressure, a tank venting prob
lem, you name it... lots of possible causes, but I would be very hesitant t
o recommend the accel pump mod on ANY engine for the described problem.-
=0A=0ARespectfully, =0A=0AMark Bitterlich =0AN50YK.- =0A=0Ap.s.- Run th
is by Sergei Boriak, or better yet Vladimir Yastremski... I think you will
find they will agree.- =0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii@yahoo.com>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@
matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:18:38 AM=0ASubject: Re
: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0A=0ADavid,
<<We're removing a plug to uncover the jet below it.>>- Yes, #10 on the
diagram is the plug (11mm) that you pull to get to the jet.=0A=0AThe jet un
screws, comes out, has a little hole in it.- You plug that somehow..(weld
, JB, etc.).- Then reinsert the jet and reinstall the 11mm plug.- =0A
=0AMy engine ran much better after the mod with no noted lag in acceleratio
n.=0A=0AEddie=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On Sat, 12/20/08, DAVID STROUD <dstroud@storm.
ca> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: DAVID STROUD <dstroud@storm.ca>=0ASubject: Re: Re: M1
4PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0ATo: m14pengines-list
@matronics.com=0ADate: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 10:32 AM=0A=0A=0AI'm sl
ightly confused now. We're removing a plug to uncover the jet below it. You
r last sentence says--- 'plug it and reinstall' , do you mean to =0Ar
emove the jet, plug it ( the jet ) somehow, then reinstall the plugged jet
and cover it with the first plug? Is this process done on the Huosai =0Aeng
ine too ? thanks..=0A-=0ADavid Stroud---- Ottawa, Canada=0AChrist
avia C-FDWS=0AFairchild 51 replica=0Aunder- construction C-FYXV=0A----- O
riginal Message ----- =0AFrom: Eddie Moran =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronic
s.com =0ASent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:02 AM=0ASubject: Fw: Re: M14P
Engines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0A=0AMark,- =0A=0AI am
not an expert by any means but I agree on the ice theory.- I also have a
picture of the accel plug fix.- I would plug that if you have not alread
y.- The following info came from Dennis a few years ago.=0A=0A=0A=0ASee a
ttached.- Item #10 is a plug (11 mm I believe) and under the plug is the
acceleration pump jet.- The jet has a slot in it just like a slotted scre
w.- Use a straight blade screwdriver to remove.- Plug it and reinstall.
=0A=0AThe figure is attached.=0A=0AEddie Moran=0AN320VT =0AMurphy Moose=0A
=0A--- On Thu, 12/18/08, markgreenway <geewhizmark@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0AF
rom: markgreenway <geewhizmark@gmail.com>=0ASubject: M14PEngines-List: Why
would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ADat
e: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 9:30 PM=0A=0A=0A--> M14PEngines-List messag
e posted by: "markgreenway"=0A<geewhizmark@gmail.com>=0A=0AHello Guys=0A=0A
Any idea why I lost power and had to make a forced landing ,because whe
n=0Acrossing midfield for landing, the motor lost power when I=0A throttled
back. It=0Anever totally died and it regained power once on the ground=0A
=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A 3D=3D=3D=3D
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