Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:49 AM - Re: Fw: air start (B-L Pollock)
2. 03:23 PM - Re: Fw: air start (DAVID STROUD)
3. 05:53 PM - Re: Fw: air start (Yak Pilot)
4. 05:59 PM - Re: Fw: air start (Daniel Young)
5. 06:01 PM - Re: Fw: air start (Yak Pilot)
6. 06:01 PM - Re: Fw: air start (Yak Pilot)
7. 06:16 PM - Re: Fw: air start (Yak Pilot)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
Hi Mark
Your right it is the start valve.I have decided to take good advice
and hang all the air start valves and discharged valve on the
firewall.Keep the system simple!
Bill----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start
Well... being less than all knowing... I have to ask: What is the
"air start Packer Valve Assy"? My guess is that it is some kind of
American made part that replaces the normal air starter valve. ???
Mark
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: B-L Pollock <lbpollock@sympatico.ca>
To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 5:15:49 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start
----- Original Message -----
From: B-L Pollock
To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:37 AM
Subject: air start
I am installing the air start Packer valves assembly ,I would like to
put it under the pilot seat, but I heard it is better on the fire wall
to be higher than the air compressor .The reason not to put it lower was
that all the oil and water will contaminate the packer valve assembly
.Does anybody have information on this?
Thankyou
Bill
Moose-244
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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3D
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3D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/2/2009 1:10 PM
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
My firewall is too small to put these important bits up front, but
behind the third row of seats I have 26
cubic feet of baggage space so part of it will become the "mechanical
room" and will house the
air tank, it's valves etc and the electrical panel. In this
configuration, one air tube will run forward and
another rearward each about 10 feet in length. Can anyone see any reason
why this should not work?
Thanks...
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: B-L Pollock
To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start
Hi Mark
Your right it is the start valve.I have decided to take good advice
and hang all the air start valves and discharged valve on the
firewall.Keep the system simple!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
This gets into an engineering level discussion that we need Brian Lloyd for
.- There probably will be no problem at all doing this.- However it bea
rs mentioning what the problem COULD be.- When you extend the length of t
he supply air line, you increase resistance and decrease flow volume.- Re
ducing the flow volume is not catastrophic of course, it could just mean sl
ightly longer times for gear movement, flap movement (if you have gear and
flaps that move by pneumatics to begin with of course!) and engine starting
issues.- Probably not a problem for gear or flaps since they are both fl
ow RESTRICTED-with-aircraft that use air for that purpose.- Starting
though.... Hmmm.-- Wish I had the math of figure that... but I do not..
. not off the top of my head anyway.- I will defer with someone who can c
ompute it.- However, if it were me... I might consider stepping up-size
on the line from say a #4 AN fitting to a #6, sizing the line itself
accordingly.- This might indeed be overkill... but it darn sure would ne
ver hurt either.- I'll be interested in what other input you get.- =0A
=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom: DAVID STROUD <dstroud@storm.ca>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 6:22:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List
: Fw: air start=0A=0A=0AMy firewall is too small to put these important bit
s up front, but behind the third row of seats I have 26=0Acubic feet of bag
gage space so part of it will become the "mechanical room"-and will house
the=0Aair tank, it's valves etc and the electrical panel. In this configur
ation, one air tube will run forward and=0Aanother rearward each about 10 f
eet in length. Can anyone see any reason why this should not work?=0AThanks
...=0A-=0ADavid Stroud---- Ottawa, Canada=0AChristavia C-FDWS=0AF
airchild 51 replica=0Aunder- construction C-FYXV=0A----- Original Message
----- =0AFrom: B-L Pollock =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0ASent:
Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air s
tart=0A=0AHi Mark=0A- Your right it is the start valve.I have decided to
take good advice and-hang all the air start valves and discharged valve o
==========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
Probably not a problem for starting either.
I am starting my Model 12 with a start bottle that is behind the rear
seat and fed by a 1/4 " line. Early on I tested the system out with a
12 foot length of line and it turned the engine fine. Can't speak for
flight controls or gear since I don't move those.
Dan Young
On Jan 4, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:
> This gets into an engineering level discussion that we need Brian
> Lloyd for. There probably will be no problem at all doing this.
> However it bears mentioning what the problem COULD be. When you
> extend the length of the supply air line, you increase resistance
> and decrease flow volume. Reducing the flow volume is not
> catastrophic of course, it could just mean slightly longer times for
> gear movement, flap movement (if you have gear and flaps that move
> by pneumatics to begin with of course!) and engine starting issues.
> Probably not a problem for gear or flaps since they are both flow
> RESTRICTED with aircraft that use air for that purpose. Starting
> though.... Hmmm. Wish I had the math of figure that... but I do
> not... not off the top of my head anyway. I will defer with someone
> who can compute it. However, if it were me... I might consider
> stepping up size on the line from say a #4 AN fitting to a #6,
> sizing the line itself accordingly. This might indeed be
> overkill... but it darn sure would never hurt either. I'll be
> interested in what other input you get.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> From: DAVID STROUD <dstroud@storm.ca>
> To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 6:22:29 PM
> Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start
>
> My firewall is too small to put these important bits up front, but
> behind the third row of seats I have 26
> cubic feet of baggage space so part of it will become the
> "mechanical room" and will house the
> air tank, it's valves etc and the electrical panel. In this
> configuration, one air tube will run forward and
> another rearward each about 10 feet in length. Can anyone see any
> reason why this should not work?
> Thanks...
>
> David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
> Christavia C-FDWS
> Fairchild 51 replica
> under construction C-FYXV
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: B-L Pollock
> To: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start
>
> Hi Mark
> Your right it is the start valve.I have decided to take good
> advice and hang all the air start valves and discharged valve on the
> firewall.Keep the system simple!
>
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
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> ======================
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> ======================
> _-
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> ======================
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> ======================
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
Are you using the original Russian valve?- If so, there is good reason fo
r putting it under the seat.- The older style valve of this type had a ma
nual lever on the side that allowed them to be activated by hand if the ele
ctrical side of the house went Tango Uniform.- The newer Russian model va
lve does not have this feature, but can be retrofitted easily if you happen
to lay your hands on the older style valve down the road.- In the YAK-52
you can activate the level on this valve with your foot.- In the 50, you
need to go up and into the nose hell hole to get to it.- =0A=0ASomething
to think about.- If this is a totally new install (as in a "Moose") and
this is NOT the Russian designed starter valve,- it would be a very smart
move to put a MANUAL valve in parallel with the electrically activated one
.- That way, if total electrical power is lost out in the boonies, you ca
n start the engine by manually opening an air valve. =0A=0AMark Bitterlich
=0AN50YK=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: B-L P
ollock <lbpollock@sympatico.ca>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent
: Sunday, January 4, 2009 1:49:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: a
ir start=0A=0A=0AHi Mark=0A- Your right it is the start valve.I have deci
ded to take good advice and-hang all the air start valves and discharged
valve on the firewall.Keep the system simple!=0A=0A--------
------------------- Bill----- Origina
l Message ----- =0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:27 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List
: Fw: air start=0A=0AWell... being less than all knowing... I have to ask:
- What is the "air start Packer Valve Assy"?- My guess is that it is so
me kind of American made part that replaces the normal air starter valve.
- ???=0A=0AMark=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: B-L Pollock <lbpollock@sympatico.ca>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 5:15:49 PM=0ASubject: M14PEngines-List
: Fw: air start=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: B-L Polloc
k =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 25, 200
8 11:37 AM=0ASubject: air start=0A=0AI am installing the air start Packer v
alves assembly ,I would like to put it under the pilot seat, but I heard it
is better on the fire wall to be higher than the air compressor .The reaso
n not to put it lower-was that all the oil and water will contaminate the
packer valve assembly-.Does anybody have information on this?=0A--
-------------------------
----------- Thankyou=0A----------
-------------------------
--- Bill=0A-------------------
------------------- Moose-244 =0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List"'>htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://for
ums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.
matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=0A________________________________=0A- 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date: 1/2/2
==================
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
Are you using the original Russian valve?- If so, there is good reason fo
r putting it under the seat.- The older style valve of this type had a ma
nual lever on the side that allowed them to be activated by hand if the ele
ctrical side of the house went Tango Uniform.- The newer Russian model va
lve does not have this feature, but can be retrofitted easily if you happen
to lay your hands on the older style valve down the road.- In the YAK-52
you can activate the level on this valve with your foot.- In the 50, you
need to go up and into the nose hell hole to get to it.- =0A=0ASomething
to think about.- If this is a totally new install (as in a "Moose") and
this is NOT the Russian designed starter valve,- it would be a very smart
move to put a MANUAL valve in parallel with the electrically activated one
.- That way, if total electrical power is lost out in the boonies, you ca
n start the engine by manually opening an air valve. =0A=0AMark Bitterlich
=0AN50YK=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: B-L P
ollock <lbpollock@sympatico.ca>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent
: Sunday, January 4, 2009 1:49:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: a
ir start=0A=0A=0AHi Mark=0A- Your right it is the start valve.I have deci
ded to take good advice and-hang all the air start valves and discharged
valve on the firewall.Keep the system simple!=0A=0A--------
------------------- Bill----- Origina
l Message ----- =0AFrom: Yak Pilot =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:27 PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List
: Fw: air start=0A=0AWell... being less than all knowing... I have to ask:
- What is the "air start Packer Valve Assy"?- My guess is that it is so
me kind of American made part that replaces the normal air starter valve.
- ???=0A=0AMark=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: B-L Pollock <lbpollock@sympatico.ca>=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 5:15:49 PM=0ASubject: M14PEngines-List
: Fw: air start=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: B-L Polloc
k =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 25, 200
8 11:37 AM=0ASubject: air start=0A=0AI am installing the air start Packer v
alves assembly ,I would like to put it under the pilot seat, but I heard it
is better on the fire wall to be higher than the air compressor .The reaso
n not to put it lower-was that all the oil and water will contaminate the
packer valve assembly-.Does anybody have information on this?=0A--
-------------------------
----------- Thankyou=0A----------
-------------------------
--- Bill=0A-------------------
------------------- Moose-244 =0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List"'>htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://for
ums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.
matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=0A________________________________=0A- 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date: 1/2/2
==================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: air start |
Well there you go!- 1/4" line is probably AN#4, so it looks safe to go wi
th that.- =0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0Ap.s, Thanks Daniel=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: Daniel Young <n35dy@bellsouth.net>=0A
PM=0ASubject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Fw: air start=0A=0AProbably not a probl
em for starting either.- =0AI am starting my Model 12 with a -start bot
tle that is behind the rear seat and fed by a 1/4 " line. -Early on I tes
ted the system out with a 12 foot length of line and it turned the engine f
ine. Can't speak for flight controls or gear since I don't move those.-
=0A=0ADan Young=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 4, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:=0A=0AT
his gets into an engineering level discussion that we need Brian Lloyd for.
- There probably will be no problem at all doing this.- However it bear
s mentioning what the problem COULD be.- When you extend the length of th
e supply air line, you increase resistance and decrease flow volume.- Red
ucing the flow volume is not catastrophic of course, it could just mean sli
ghtly longer times for gear movement, flap movement (if you have gear and f
laps that move by pneumatics to begin with of course!) and engine starting
issues.- Probably not a problem for gear or flaps since they are both flo
w RESTRICTED-with-aircraft that use air for that purpose.- Starting t
hough.... Hmmm.-- Wish I had the math of figure that... but I do not...
not off the top of my head anyway.- I will defer with someone who can co
mpute it.- However, if it were me... I might consider stepping up-size
on the line from say a #4 AN fitting to a #6, sizing the line itself
accordingly.- This might indeed be overkill... but it darn sure would ne
ver hurt either.- I'll be interested in what other input you get.-=0A
=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom:-DAVID STROUD <dstroud@storm.ca>=0ATo:-m14pengines-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent:-Sunday, January 4, 2009 6:22:29 PM=0ASubject:-Re: M14PEngine
s-List: Fw: air start=0A=0A=0AMy firewall is too small to put these importa
nt bits up front, but behind the third row of seats I have 26=0Acubic feet
of baggage space so part of it will become the "mechanical room"-and will
house the=0Aair tank, it's valves etc and the electrical panel. In this co
nfiguration, one air tube will run forward and=0Aanother rearward each abou
t 10 feet in length. Can anyone see any reason why this should not work?=0A
Thanks...=0A-=0ADavid Stroud---- Ottawa, Canada=0AChristavia C-FD
WS=0AFairchild 51 replica=0Aunder- construction C-FYXV=0A----- Original M
essage -----=0AFrom:-B-L Pollock=0ATo:-m14pengines-list@matronics.com
=0ASent:-Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:49 PM=0ASubject:-Re: M14PEngines-Li
st: Fw: air start=0A=0AHi Mark=0A- Your right it is the start valve.I hav
e decided to take good advice and-hang all the air start valves and disch
arged valve on the firewall.Keep the system simple!=0A=0Ahttp://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?M14PEngines-List=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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