---------------------------------------------------------- M14PEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/08/09: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:57 AM - Air start (HBaker) 2. 06:27 AM - Re: Air start (George Coy) 3. 01:59 PM - Re: Air start (Yak Pilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:34 AM PST US Subject: M14PEngines-List: Air start From: "HBaker" I' m hooking up the air start an was wondering about the water trap and the solonoids Is there three of these , one on the air start, one on the Isolaion valve and one on the water trap, are you hooking up the water trap with some kind of a colection ,loop or container before the valve? And 2 of the the valves are normally closed and one open? -------- Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229191#229191 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:18 AM PST US From: "George Coy" Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Air start Usually you exit the air compressor with some steel line. Put a loop or two in it for vibration isolation and some cooling to condense the water and oil vapors. It then goes to the water trap. From the water trap it usually goes to the air system through a check valve. The pressure bottle is usually isolated with a manual valve so you do not loose pressure while the aircraft is parked. The start valve is hooked to the system and is either electrically or mechanically activated. The electrical valves can have some problems as they sometimes gum up with the oil residues that are in the air system. Many of the eastern aircraft used a mechanical valve. This had the advantage that once thrown it left both hands free to work throttle, primer magi switches etc. If you go to the instillation section of the M14P engines on our website at motorstarna.com you will see a sample system schematic. There may also be some other useful information there as well. George Coy Motorstar NA 714 Airport Rd. Swanton VT 05488 802-868-5633 off 802-363-5782 cell george.coy@gmail.com SKYPE george.coy motorstarna.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HBaker Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: M14PEngines-List: Air start --> I' m hooking up the air start an was wondering about the water trap and the solonoids Is there three of these , one on the air start, one on the Isolaion valve and one on the water trap, are you hooking up the water trap with some kind of a colection ,loop or container before the valve? And 2 of the the valves are normally closed and one open? -------- Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229191#229191 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:01 PM PST US From: Yak Pilot Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Air start A comment on design if I may.- The original Yak design used a steel line with loops in it as George described.- With later models, they used a ste el line, a few loops and then a steel braided line connected to the end of it which then connected to the water trap.- =0A-=0ASukhoi designs simpl y used a braided high pressure steel line and never bothered with the hard steel line (loops or no loops).- =0A-=0AMy YAK-50, plus two YAK-52=92s that I know about have had problems when using a solid steel line, with the loops, connecting straight to the water trap (snot valve).- The reason i s fairly obvious.- The engine moves in it=92s shock mounts (rubbers).- The snot valve is connected to the firewall.- As the engine vibrates, thi s steel line has to flex and move with it.- Over time, it is going to fai l.- =0A-=0ABottom line, in my humble opinion, lose the steel line and r eplace it with a steel braided flex line.- Or=85use the steel line, but h ave a piece of braided flexible line between the steel line and the snot va lve.- On mine I managed to get the =0A-=0AThere are two models of start valves.- One has manual capability, one does not.- If you can find an old one that does not work, you can take the new model and steal the parts out of it to repair an old one so you do have manual capability, which is a very good thing to have as George points out.- =0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: George Coy =0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, February 8, 2009 9:25:58 AM=0ASubject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Air start=0A=0A--> M14PEngines -List message posted by: "George Coy" =0A=0AUsually you exit the air compressor with some steel line. Put a loop or two=0Ain it for vibration isolation and some cooling to condense the water and oil=0Avapor s. It then goes to the water trap. From the water trap it usually goes=0Ato the air system through a check valve. The pressure bottle is usually=0Aiso lated with a manual valve so you do not loose pressure while the aircraft =0Ais parked. The start valve is hooked to the system and is either=0Aelect rically or mechanically activated. The electrical valves can have some=0Apr oblems as they sometimes gum up with the oil residues that are in the air =0Asystem. Many of the eastern aircraft used a mechanical valve. This had t he=0Aadvantage that once thrown it left both hands free to work throttle, p rimer=0Amagi switches etc.=0A=0AIf you go to the instillation section of th e M14P engines on our website at=0Amotorstarna.com- you will see a sample system schematic. There may also be=0Asome other useful information there as well. =0A=0A=0AGeorge Coy=0A=0AMotorstar NA=0A714 Airport Rd.=0ASwanton VT 05488=0A802-868-5633 off=0A802-363-5782 cell=0Ageorge.coy@gmail.com=0ASK YPE george.coy=0Amotorstarna.com=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: ow ner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HBaker=0ASent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 8:57 AM=0ATo: m14pengines-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: M14PEngines-List: ry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>=0A=0AI' m hooking up the air start an was wonderi ng about the water trap and the=0Asolonoids Is there three of these , one o n the air start, one on the=0AIsolaion valve and one on the water trap, are you hooking up the water trap=0Awith some kind of a colection ,loop or con tainer before the valve? And- 2 of=0Athe the valves are normally closed a nd one open?=0A=0A--------=0ACurrently building a Murphy Moose - any help w ould be appreciated.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229191#229191=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =========================0A ==================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message m14pengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/M14PEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/m14pengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/m14pengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.