---------------------------------------------------------- M14PEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/18/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Compressor issue (Didier Blouzard) 2. 12:35 AM - Re: Compressor issue (Jan Mevis) 3. 04:42 AM - Re: Compressor issue (A. Dennis Savarese) 4. 08:36 AM - Re: Compressor issue (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 5. 02:22 PM - Re: Compressor issue (Didier BLOUZARD) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:35 AM PST US From: Didier Blouzard Subject: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue Hi Yak friends, My friend have a problem with the air in his 52. His air bottle does not refill. We tested yesterday part of the system and here are some symptoms. First the air bottle when closed does not leak. When opened no leak heard also and all is working properly. Gear brakes flaps. Only visible symptom is that the pressure doesn't rise. After landing when opening the water collector, no air is coming out. We tryed all the following by turning the prop by hands : I put my hand on the compressor filter and can feel the air going in. So we unmounted the pipe coming from the compressor to the water collector in order to see if air is coming out. Putting my thumb on the pipe with soap water, I barely could feel anything coming out... I blowed into the water collector and air is passing thrue. Any hints regarding these symptoms please guys??? -- Didier BLOUZARD didier.blouzard@gmail.com 0624243672 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:09 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue What happens is that the shear pin of the compressor breaks. I've seen this a couple of times. Could also be the pipe from the compressor to the water separator: they usually crack at one of the ends. I'd run the engine and use soapy water for that. By moving the prop manually you won't build up a lot of pressure. The compressor is a two-stages pump. BR, Jan From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard Sent: dinsdag 18 januari 2011 9:05 Subject: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue Hi Yak friends, My friend have a problem with the air in his 52. His air bottle does not refill. We tested yesterday part of the system and here are some symptoms. First the air bottle when closed does not leak. When opened no leak heard also and all is working properly. Gear brakes flaps. Only visible symptom is that the pressure doesn't rise. After landing when opening the water collector, no air is coming out. We tryed all the following by turning the prop by hands : I put my hand on the compressor filter and can feel the air going in. So we unmounted the pipe coming from the compressor to the water collector in order to see if air is coming out. Putting my thumb on the pipe with soap water, I barely could feel anything coming out... I blowed into the water collector and air is passing thrue. Any hints regarding these symptoms please guys??? -- Didier BLOUZARD didier.blouzard@gmail.com 0624243672 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:51 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue Hi Didier, There are 2 things that will cause the symptom you have defined. - The compressor has a coupling between it and the accessory case. This coupling has 3 shear pins which if sheared, stops the compressor from functioning when the engine is in operation. Unfortunately, to gain access to the shear coupling the compressor has to be removed from the accessory case. There are six 11 mm nuts around the base of the compressor where it mounts to the accessory case. In the Russian tool box is a long T-handle tool with a curve toward the end with an 11 mm box end wrench. Its sole purpose in life is to remove the nuts on the compressor. Most likely you will be making a few tools to reinstall the nuts. I am certain you will use a lot of foul language removing and reinstalling the nuts because they are quite difficult to get to. Remove everything in front of the compressor, including the exhaust section for ease of access to the base of the compressor. - Secondly, (and the first thing I would try) remove the output check valve from the compressor. This is the valve where the line coming from the water separator bottle that has the banjo fitting on the end, attaches to the compressor. The nut size I believe is 22 mm. When you remove the output check valve, look at the flat surface. In the center you will see a small circle about the size of a pencil eraser. Push the circle down. If it doesn't move, the output check valve in carboned up. Disassemble the sections of the output check valve and clean. The little circle I mentioned is actually a little "valve" that is held in place by a small spring which is inside the output check valve. You will need a new set of crush washers when you reassemble. Once you remove the output check valve, put your thumb or finger on the hole and have someone rotate the prop. See if you feel output pressure from the compressor. If not, go back to removing the compressor to replace the shear coupling. Hope this helps. Dennis A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (cell) Skype: Yakguy1 www.yak-52.com On 1/18/2011 2:04 AM, Didier Blouzard wrote: > Hi Yak friends, > > My friend have a problem with the air in his 52. His air bottle does not > refill. > We tested yesterday part of the system and here are some symptoms. > First the air bottle when closed does not leak. > When opened no leak heard also and all is working properly. Gear brakes > flaps. > Only visible symptom is that the pressure doesn't rise. After landing > when opening the water collector, no air is coming out. > > We tryed all the following by turning the prop by hands : > > I put my hand on the compressor filter and can feel the air going in. > So we unmounted the pipe coming from the compressor to the water > collector in order to see if air is coming out. Putting my thumb on the > pipe with soap water, I barely could feel anything coming out... > I blowed into the water collector and air is passing thrue. > > > Any hints regarding these symptoms please guys??? > > -- > Didier BLOUZARD > didier.blouzard@gmail.com > 0624243672 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Everyone has a different way of doing things, my suggestion is based on having the right tools in hand and .... being basically lazy. Having had a lot of leaks to deal with on Russian aircraft, I developed this procedure. Admittedly, without the right tools and fittings, it is not easy to do. I obtained the tools, I made the fittings. They have been a life-saver over time. My suggestion is to obtain a regulated air source that can input 700 PSI or so. This can be difficult, but I happen to have one. Next, take the line off the snot valve that feeds back to the engine compressor. Connect your air source to that line. Pressurize that line. Yes, you are putting the air in "backwards" so to speak. Listen for leaks. As has already been mentioned, this line fails....a LOT. Also, it is very common for leaks to occur at the check valve and banjo fitting area located at the compressor. Then.... hook your pressure line to the snot valve, and once again pressurize the system. Listen for leaks. Soapy water, etc. You can do all this in a hangar with the with the engine shut off. If all this works without any leaks, move to step number 2, which is to do exactly what Dennis said to check the compressor itself. Good luck. My best guess is that you have something wrong with a line or fitting between the compressor and the snot valve. A common fault. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:40 AM Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue Hi Didier, There are 2 things that will cause the symptom you have defined. - The compressor has a coupling between it and the accessory case. This coupling has 3 shear pins which if sheared, stops the compressor from functioning when the engine is in operation. Unfortunately, to gain access to the shear coupling the compressor has to be removed from the accessory case. There are six 11 mm nuts around the base of the compressor where it mounts to the accessory case. In the Russian tool box is a long T-handle tool with a curve toward the end with an 11 mm box end wrench. Its sole purpose in life is to remove the nuts on the compressor. Most likely you will be making a few tools to reinstall the nuts. I am certain you will use a lot of foul language removing and reinstalling the nuts because they are quite difficult to get to. Remove everything in front of the compressor, including the exhaust section for ease of access to the base of the compressor. - Secondly, (and the first thing I would try) remove the output check valve from the compressor. This is the valve where the line coming from the water separator bottle that has the banjo fitting on the end, attaches to the compressor. The nut size I believe is 22 mm. When you remove the output check valve, look at the flat surface. In the center you will see a small circle about the size of a pencil eraser. Push the circle down. If it doesn't move, the output check valve in carboned up. Disassemble the sections of the output check valve and clean. The little circle I mentioned is actually a little "valve" that is held in place by a small spring which is inside the output check valve. You will need a new set of crush washers when you reassemble. Once you remove the output check valve, put your thumb or finger on the hole and have someone rotate the prop. See if you feel output pressure from the compressor. If not, go back to removing the compressor to replace the shear coupling. Hope this helps. Dennis A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (cell) Skype: Yakguy1 www.yak-52.com On 1/18/2011 2:04 AM, Didier Blouzard wrote: > Hi Yak friends, > > My friend have a problem with the air in his 52. His air bottle does not > refill. > We tested yesterday part of the system and here are some symptoms. > First the air bottle when closed does not leak. > When opened no leak heard also and all is working properly. Gear brakes > flaps. > Only visible symptom is that the pressure doesn't rise. After landing > when opening the water collector, no air is coming out. > > We tryed all the following by turning the prop by hands : > > I put my hand on the compressor filter and can feel the air going in. > So we unmounted the pipe coming from the compressor to the water > collector in order to see if air is coming out. Putting my thumb on the > pipe with soap water, I barely could feel anything coming out... > I blowed into the water collector and air is passing thrue. > > > Any hints regarding these symptoms please guys??? > > -- > Didier BLOUZARD > didier.blouzard@gmail.com > 0624243672 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: M14PEngines-List: Compressor issue From: Didier BLOUZARD Dennis, As always your advice is very precious, thanks so much for this.I will proceed step by step as you write and hope to find where this problem come from. By chance I have a spare shear pin and the specific tool for removing the compressor. So if it is necessary, I will use all the bad words I know but hopefully be successful. I'll let you know. Thanks very much to all of you for your kind answers and particularly to Jan for his advices and his time. He is really a precious man skilled generous and patient. We are lucky to have such persons on this side of the world in addition to Dennis. Didier Blouzard +33(0)6 2424 3672 Le 18 janv. 2011 13:39, "A. Dennis Savarese" a crit : > > Hi Didier, > There are 2 things that will cause the symptom you have defined. > - The compressor has a coupling between it and the > accessory case. This coupling has 3 shear pins which if sheared, stops the compressor from functioning when the engine is in operation. Unfortunately, to gain access to the shear coupling the compressor has to be removed from the accessory case. There are six 11 mm nuts around the base of the compressor where it mounts to the accessory case. In the Russian tool box is a long T-handle tool with a curve toward the end with an 11 mm box end wrench. Its sole purpose in life is to remove the nuts on the compressor. Most likely you will be making a few tools to reinstall the nuts. I am certain you will use a lot of foul language removing and reinstalling the nuts because they are quite difficult to get to. Remove everything in front of the compressor, including the exhaust section for ease of access to the base of the compressor. > > - Secondly, (and the first thing I would try) remove the output check valve from the compressor. This is the valve where the line coming from the water separator bottle that has the banjo fitting on the end, attaches to the compressor. The nut size I believe is 22 mm. When you remove the output check valve, look at the flat surface. In the center you will see a small circle about the size of a pencil eraser. Push the circle down. If it doesn't move, the output check valve in carboned up. Disassemble the sections of the output check valve and clean. The little circle I mentioned is actually a little "valve" that is held in place by a small spring which is inside the output check valve. You will need a new set of crush washers when you reassemble. > > Once you remove the output check valve, put your thumb or finger on the hole and have someone rotate the prop. See if you feel output pressure from the compressor. If not, go back to removing the compressor to replace the shear coupling. > Hope this helps. > Dennis > > A. Dennis Savarese > 334-285-6263 > 334-546-8182 (cell) > Skype: Yakguy1 > www.yak-52.com > > On 1/18/2011 2:04 AM, Didier Blouzard wrote: >> Hi Yak friends, >> >> My friend have a problem with the air in his 52. His air bottle does not >> refill. >> We tested yesterday part of the system and here are some symptoms. >> First the air bottle when closed does not leak. >> When opened no leak heard also and all is working properly. Gear brakes >> flaps. >> Only visible symptom is that the pressure doesn't rise. After landing >> when opening the water collector, no air is coming out. >> >> We tryed all the following by turning the prop by hands : >> >> I put my hand on the compressor filter and can feel the air going in. >> So we unmounted the pipe coming from the compressor to the water >> collector in order to see if air is coming out. Putting my thumb on the >> pipe with soap water, I barely could feel anything coming out... >> I blowed into the water collector and air is passing thrue. >> >> >> Any hints regarding these symptoms please guys??? >> >> -- >> Didier BLOUZARD >> didier.blouzard@gmail.com >> 0624243672 >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message m14pengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/M14PEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/m14pengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/m14pengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.