Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:03 AM - M14P intake leak test procedure. (waterpro)
2. 12:13 PM - Re: M14P intake leak test procedure. (George Coy)
3. 12:21 PM - Re: M14P intake leak test procedure. (George Coy)
4. 12:33 PM - Re: M14P intake leak test procedure. (Monty Barrett Sr)
5. 03:48 PM - Re: M14P intake leak test procedure. (waterpro)
Message 1
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| Subject: | M14P intake leak test procedure. |
Thought I would post this to give back to the community and to help others keep
their M14`s in top shape.
One thing we have noticed with an engine that has been sitting for awhile, or may
be up in time, is that the intake manifold pipes can leak at the seals from
either end and cause a lean condition, or rough running on the associated cylinder
The intake manifold pipes on the M14 have a solid gasket at the cylinder head end
and a rubber `Quad`gasket at the supercharger end. Both are held in place and
sealed by compression from tightening a threaded ring to either the cylinder
jug or the rear engine casting.
The rubber quad rings will shrink over time and necessitate tightening of the rings
to keep air from leaking in at the joint.
Eventually you can not tighten the rings any more and an air leak will develop
meaning that replacement of the rings is the only option.
This is not an easy task and will probably set you back 2-3 hours at best if you
have easy access to the entire engine and have the M14 tool kit with the special
wrenches. (Wrench 14-24-571 and Wrench 10-32-12)
The big question is "How do I know if I have a leak ?"
If you have a 9 cylinder Display for EGT you may see a slightly higher temperature
on one or 2 cylinders. This may or may not mean a leak but it can be an indication
especially if the temperatures have been rising over time or appears
suddenly.
For the rest of us poor folk without fancy digital engine gauges, here is an easy
way to check for leaks.
You will need only 4 general shop items and one not so easy to get item.
(1) A decent Shop Vac that can have the hose attached for a blower.
(2) A roll of "Tuck Tape" (Sealing tape for home vapor barriers)
(3) A spray bottle full of clean water.
(4) A few drops of dish soap.
And the hard to get item is an old pair (or new) of panty hose.
Process:
Hook up the Shop Vac so the hose is on the "Outlet" side of the vacuum.
Place one leg of the panty hose over the end of the hose. (this is to keep from
blowing dust or other material in to your engine)
Wrap the panty hose on the the vacuum hose with tape to keep it from blowing off.
Now place the hose against your carb air intake wherever it is convenient and tape
it on so that there is no leaks between the hose and the attachment point.
(The carb heat hose fitting is a great place to do this)
Use more tape to block off any other points of your air box or intake so that when
the vacuum starts blowing air in to the engine it will not come out anywhere.
Turn on the vacuum. (Blower)
Make sure that there are no leaks around the hose or intake. Block with tape if
required.
You should hear air coming out of the exhaust as the vacuum blows air through he
engine.
Take your spray bottle full of water and add a few drops of dish soap to it. (Don't
forget to return the dish soap to the kitchen or your wife will be quite
upset. Also wipe the oily fingerprints off of it so she does not know you used
it.)
Here is the fun part.....
Start spraying the soapy water around the joints in the intake manifold pipes at
the engine casting and the cylinder heads.
Do one at a time and watch for small bubble to appear anywhere around the joint.
If you see bubbles, you've got a manifold intake air leak!
Tighten any joints you see bubbles coming from using the special wrenches from
the tool kit, and spray again to see if it has sealed the leak.
If bubbles are still present after tightening, you need to replace that seal.*
When you are sure that there are no leaks, shut the vacuum off and remove any tape.
That's it. Your done. You now know that there are no intake air leaks in your engine.
Peter.
*Thank you to George Coy who was very helpful in supplying new seals for us and
for his exceptionally fast service.
He has spent hours on the phone with us diagnosing problems and pointing us in
the right direction. We probably have not spent the money that others have with
him, but he has treated us as if we did.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363217#363217
Message 2
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| Subject: | M14P intake leak test procedure. |
Hmmmmm maybe you should be careful when pressurizing a pressure carburetor.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of waterpro
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: M14P intake leak test procedure.
Thought I would post this to give back to the community and to help others
keep their M14`s in top shape.
One thing we have noticed with an engine that has been sitting for awhile,
or may be up in time, is that the intake manifold pipes can leak at the
seals from either end and cause a lean condition, or rough running on the
associated cylinder
The intake manifold pipes on the M14 have a solid gasket at the cylinder
head end and a rubber `Quad`gasket at the supercharger end. Both are held in
place and sealed by compression from tightening a threaded ring to either
the cylinder jug or the rear engine casting.
The rubber quad rings will shrink over time and necessitate tightening of
the rings to keep air from leaking in at the joint.
Eventually you can not tighten the rings any more and an air leak will
develop meaning that replacement of the rings is the only option.
This is not an easy task and will probably set you back 2-3 hours at best if
you have easy access to the entire engine and have the M14 tool kit with the
special wrenches. (Wrench 14-24-571 and Wrench 10-32-12)
The big question is "How do I know if I have a leak ?"
If you have a 9 cylinder Display for EGT you may see a slightly higher
temperature on one or 2 cylinders. This may or may not mean a leak but it
can be an indication especially if the temperatures have been rising over
time or appears suddenly.
For the rest of us poor folk without fancy digital engine gauges, here is an
easy way to check for leaks.
You will need only 4 general shop items and one not so easy to get item.
(1) A decent Shop Vac that can have the hose attached for a blower.
(2) A roll of "Tuck Tape" (Sealing tape for home vapor barriers)
(3) A spray bottle full of clean water.
(4) A few drops of dish soap.
And the hard to get item is an old pair (or new) of panty hose.
Process:
Hook up the Shop Vac so the hose is on the "Outlet" side of the vacuum.
Place one leg of the panty hose over the end of the hose. (this is to keep
from blowing dust or other material in to your engine)
Wrap the panty hose on the the vacuum hose with tape to keep it from blowing
off.
Now place the hose against your carb air intake wherever it is convenient
and tape it on so that there is no leaks between the hose and the attachment
point. (The carb heat hose fitting is a great place to do this)
Use more tape to block off any other points of your air box or intake so
that when the vacuum starts blowing air in to the engine it will not come
out anywhere.
Turn on the vacuum. (Blower)
Make sure that there are no leaks around the hose or intake. Block with tape
if required.
You should hear air coming out of the exhaust as the vacuum blows air
through he engine.
Take your spray bottle full of water and add a few drops of dish soap to it.
(Don't forget to return the dish soap to the kitchen or your wife will be
quite upset. Also wipe the oily fingerprints off of it so she does not know
you used it.)
Here is the fun part.....
Start spraying the soapy water around the joints in the intake manifold
pipes at the engine casting and the cylinder heads.
Do one at a time and watch for small bubble to appear anywhere around the
joint. If you see bubbles, you've got a manifold intake air leak!
Tighten any joints you see bubbles coming from using the special wrenches
from the tool kit, and spray again to see if it has sealed the leak.
If bubbles are still present after tightening, you need to replace that
seal.*
When you are sure that there are no leaks, shut the vacuum off and remove
any tape.
That's it. Your done. You now know that there are no intake air leaks in
your engine.
Peter.
*Thank you to George Coy who was very helpful in supplying new seals for us
and for his exceptionally fast service.
He has spent hours on the phone with us diagnosing problems and pointing us
in the right direction. We probably have not spent the money that others
have with him, but he has treated us as if we did.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363217#363217
Message 3
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| Subject: | M14P intake leak test procedure. |
AND It might be wise to disconnect the manifold pressure gage as well
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of waterpro
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: M14P intake leak test procedure.
Thought I would post this to give back to the community and to help others
keep their M14`s in top shape.
One thing we have noticed with an engine that has been sitting for awhile,
or may be up in time, is that the intake manifold pipes can leak at the
seals from either end and cause a lean condition, or rough running on the
associated cylinder
The intake manifold pipes on the M14 have a solid gasket at the cylinder
head end and a rubber `Quad`gasket at the supercharger end. Both are held in
place and sealed by compression from tightening a threaded ring to either
the cylinder jug or the rear engine casting.
The rubber quad rings will shrink over time and necessitate tightening of
the rings to keep air from leaking in at the joint.
Eventually you can not tighten the rings any more and an air leak will
develop meaning that replacement of the rings is the only option.
This is not an easy task and will probably set you back 2-3 hours at best if
you have easy access to the entire engine and have the M14 tool kit with the
special wrenches. (Wrench 14-24-571 and Wrench 10-32-12)
The big question is "How do I know if I have a leak ?"
If you have a 9 cylinder Display for EGT you may see a slightly higher
temperature on one or 2 cylinders. This may or may not mean a leak but it
can be an indication especially if the temperatures have been rising over
time or appears suddenly.
For the rest of us poor folk without fancy digital engine gauges, here is an
easy way to check for leaks.
You will need only 4 general shop items and one not so easy to get item.
(1) A decent Shop Vac that can have the hose attached for a blower.
(2) A roll of "Tuck Tape" (Sealing tape for home vapor barriers)
(3) A spray bottle full of clean water.
(4) A few drops of dish soap.
And the hard to get item is an old pair (or new) of panty hose.
Process:
Hook up the Shop Vac so the hose is on the "Outlet" side of the vacuum.
Place one leg of the panty hose over the end of the hose. (this is to keep
from blowing dust or other material in to your engine)
Wrap the panty hose on the the vacuum hose with tape to keep it from blowing
off.
Now place the hose against your carb air intake wherever it is convenient
and tape it on so that there is no leaks between the hose and the attachment
point. (The carb heat hose fitting is a great place to do this)
Use more tape to block off any other points of your air box or intake so
that when the vacuum starts blowing air in to the engine it will not come
out anywhere.
Turn on the vacuum. (Blower)
Make sure that there are no leaks around the hose or intake. Block with tape
if required.
You should hear air coming out of the exhaust as the vacuum blows air
through he engine.
Take your spray bottle full of water and add a few drops of dish soap to it.
(Don't forget to return the dish soap to the kitchen or your wife will be
quite upset. Also wipe the oily fingerprints off of it so she does not know
you used it.)
Here is the fun part.....
Start spraying the soapy water around the joints in the intake manifold
pipes at the engine casting and the cylinder heads.
Do one at a time and watch for small bubble to appear anywhere around the
joint. If you see bubbles, you've got a manifold intake air leak!
Tighten any joints you see bubbles coming from using the special wrenches
from the tool kit, and spray again to see if it has sealed the leak.
If bubbles are still present after tightening, you need to replace that
seal.*
When you are sure that there are no leaks, shut the vacuum off and remove
any tape.
That's it. Your done. You now know that there are no intake air leaks in
your engine.
Peter.
*Thank you to George Coy who was very helpful in supplying new seals for us
and for his exceptionally fast service.
He has spent hours on the phone with us diagnosing problems and pointing us
in the right direction. We probably have not spent the money that others
have with him, but he has treated us as if we did.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363217#363217
Message 4
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| Subject: | M14P intake leak test procedure. |
I don't think you will see a higher EGT at wide open throttle. You may
see a slight drop in maximum attainable manifold pressure. This applies
to only the case end of the pipe leaking. IF it leaks at the cylinder
flange that one cylinder will likely run lean.
However, when the engine is operating at less than ambient pressure you
will see some increase in ALL EGT's because a leaking pipe joint is
common to the whole induction system, meaning that it is in a big
plenum. Also idle will become more rough and there will be a slight
increase in idle RPM compared to the previously set value.
The text book answer is to check these for security at each condition
inspection. End of problem.
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
waterpro
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:59 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: M14P intake leak test procedure.
Thought I would post this to give back to the community and to help
others keep their M14`s in top shape.
One thing we have noticed with an engine that has been sitting for
awhile, or may be up in time, is that the intake manifold pipes can leak
at the seals from either end and cause a lean condition, or rough
running on the associated cylinder The intake manifold pipes on the M14
have a solid gasket at the cylinder head end and a rubber `Quad`gasket
at the supercharger end. Both are held in place and sealed by
compression from tightening a threaded ring to either the cylinder jug
or the rear engine casting. The rubber quad rings will shrink over time
and necessitate tightening of the rings to keep air from leaking in at
the joint. Eventually you can not tighten the rings any more and an air
leak will develop meaning that replacement of the rings is the only
option. This is not an easy task and will probably set you back 2-3
hours at best if you have easy access to the entire engine and have the
M14 tool kit with the special wrenches. (Wrench 14-24-571 and Wrench
10-32-12)
The big question is "How do I know if I have a leak ?"
If you have a 9 cylinder Display for EGT you may see a slightly higher
temperature on one or 2 cylinders. This may or may not mean a leak but
it can be an indication especially if the temperatures have been rising
over time or appears suddenly.
For the rest of us poor folk without fancy digital engine gauges, here
is an easy way to check for leaks.
You will need only 4 general shop items and one not so easy to get item.
(1) A decent Shop Vac that can have the hose attached for a blower.
(2) A roll of "Tuck Tape" (Sealing tape for home vapor barriers)
(3) A spray bottle full of clean water.
(4) A few drops of dish soap.
And the hard to get item is an old pair (or new) of panty hose.
Process:
Hook up the Shop Vac so the hose is on the "Outlet" side of the vacuum.
Place one leg of the panty hose over the end of the hose. (this is to
keep from blowing dust or other material in to your engine) Wrap the
panty hose on the the vacuum hose with tape to keep it from blowing off.
Now place the hose against your carb air intake wherever it is
convenient and tape it on so that there is no leaks between the hose and
the attachment point. (The carb heat hose fitting is a great place to do
this) Use more tape to block off any other points of your air box or
intake so that when the vacuum starts blowing air in to the engine it
will not come out anywhere. Turn on the vacuum. (Blower) Make sure that
there are no leaks around the hose or intake. Block with tape if
required. You should hear air coming out of the exhaust as the vacuum
blows air through he engine.
Take your spray bottle full of water and add a few drops of dish soap to
it. (Don't forget to return the dish soap to the kitchen or your wife
will be quite upset. Also wipe the oily fingerprints off of it so she
does not know you used it.) Here is the fun part..... Start spraying the
soapy water around the joints in the intake manifold pipes at the engine
casting and the cylinder heads. Do one at a time and watch for small
bubble to appear anywhere around the joint. If you see bubbles, you've
got a manifold intake air leak! Tighten any joints you see bubbles
coming from using the special wrenches from the tool kit, and spray
again to see if it has sealed the leak. If bubbles are still present
after tightening, you need to replace that seal.* When you are sure that
there are no leaks, shut the vacuum off and remove any tape.
That's it. Your done. You now know that there are no intake air leaks in
your engine.
Peter.
*Thank you to George Coy who was very helpful in supplying new seals for
us and for his exceptionally fast service. He has spent hours on the
phone with us diagnosing problems and pointing us in the right
direction. We probably have not spent the money that others have with
him, but he has treated us as if we did.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363217#363217
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: M14P intake leak test procedure. |
All good points.
> Hmmmmm maybe you should be careful when pressurizing a pressure carburetor.
I had thought about that but was not worried about it too much as there is not
much likelihood of the air not being able to escape from the engine with at least
one intake and one exhaust valve open to some degree at any point of the prop
rotation.
Would the pressure on the carb with the engine stopped even be an issue to the
barometer in the carb?
I am guessing that it would not be any worse than ram air entering the carb when
the engine is stopped or at low idle.
Not knowing the carb like you do, I have to go by what you suggest.
> AND It might be wise to disconnect the manifold pressure gage as well
>
I agree 100%
Peter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363422#363422
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