Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:16 AM - fuselage (pollock)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: fuselage (Dale Fultz)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: fuselage (pollock)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: fuselage (Scott Aldrich)
5. 06:22 PM - Re: fuselage (pollock)
Message 1
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I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4
angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need
extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall
and back to door post??? any ideas?
Bill
Moose 244
Message 2
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Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by running
the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane the
engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem
like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz
----- Original Message -----
From: pollock
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of
3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that
need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall
and back to door post??? any ideas?
Bill
Moose 244
Message 3
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Hi Dale
The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the
fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside
door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare the
both planes all the time,Is it needed ????
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Fultz
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by
running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane
the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem
like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz
----- Original Message -----
From: pollock
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of
3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that
need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire
wall and back to door post??? any ideas?
Bill
Moose 244
Message 4
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Hi Bill,
I would have to see what and where they tied the second V brace into? You
said mid firewall so I assume not the same place as the top V brace. I
could see this helping if the second brace was in tied into the cross
channel that runs between the two top engine mounts (or an added channel).
The firewall itself is too flimsy to attach much stuff too (I think the v
stiffener channels do there job, except you can=92t mount anything to or
through them) so I add a second horizontal channel about 1/3 up from the
bottom on the inside (bottom oil tank attach points go through this channel
on mine). We also added a vertical channel on the front side right up the
center from the bottom to the top cross channel. We added a vertical
channel on the inside at the top which goes up behind the MAM V brace
support angle. We changed the MAM V brace support angle to steel with side
gussets (Some used the aluminum angle but added gussets).
We did change our inner door posts to .063, we also changed the outer door
post skin but I can not remember the thickness =96 we changed to the seaplane
style doors so with the added lower =93wedge=94 being all one piece it really
stiffened this area up.
The top of the dash is too flimsy - some have added a skin doubler on the
top of the dash where it meets the firewall. Others have replaced the
entire top dash skin with thicker aluminum. I added three channels up under
the dash skin from the firewall back to the top of the instrument panel.
One in the center (the V brace goes through this) and one at each crease in
the dash skin on the sides (where the instrument panel makes the angle
change).
My fast build firewall is not flat. The top leans forward about 1/8 of an
inch. I discovered this because I removed the firewall and laid it flat to
make the jig for my engine mount. I then made my mount with all five attach
point on the same plane. So when I installed the engine mount and tightened
all of the mount bolts it pushed the top center of the firewall back. There
was a loud tin can =93bang=94. The dash had buckled as the top of the firewall
was forced back by the center engine mount. Ended up moving the top center
engine mount hole up to relieve this pressure =96 that meant remaking the V
brace mount as the hole in it was too low now also (with the firewall
leaning forward that effectively lowers the top hole a little).
I remade the V =96 brace out of large thicker tube also =96 I wanted to be able
to grab it and not worry about bending it.
We beefed up the tail cone similar to what you did but we put V hat channel
down center of the bottom corner wraps. One Moose I know of has wrinkles in
all of these corner wraps. It was most likely due to a hard landing on
floats so not sure if that was necessary or not.
We added a wrap or doubler over the cargo door sill =96 if you use it much it
will get beat up dragging stuff in and out. We used 2024 for this and a lot
of other additions due to fewer tendencies to dent.
Some have added a doubler inside the fuselage corner wrap that is right
behind the gear leg =96 then installed the drag brace through it. I made the
drag brace a little longer.
We stiffened the top of the doors with internal channels but this was only
because of the seaplane door hinge on the top.
MAM=92s new Moose demonstrator (they bought C-GATR it is on my completions
page of website) has some sort of doublers in front of the rear float attach
brackets. I have only seen it in a picture so not sure exactly what they
did. Murphy did not build this Moose they purchased after it was already
done so it is NOT a MAM mode that we have not heard about. They just
finished flying the time off of it so it will most likely be at Arlington
and Oshkosh for sure. No indication on their web about it yet but St=E9phane
said okay to tell =96 Ted knows more about it as he has talked with Ryan Mowat
who flew the time off (along with Doug from MAM) they couldn=92t get it done
in time for Sun n Fun.
Oh, just remembered - we replaced the inner rear door post skin strips with
.063 also after installing the fuel lines down the posts. The .063
continues across the bottom of the rear spar carry through.
This is unrelated to fuselage beef up but it really helps to add inspection
holes on the bottom of the fuselage right behind the firewall, particularly
if you have a bunch of stuff going through down there (we have air lines
along with fuel lines)
Sorry so long =96 can=92t think of anything else right now.
Also I can=92t say any of this is =93needed=94 it just looked right to me at the
time.
Scott
Moose 174
_____
From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pollock
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Hi Dale
The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that
the fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the
inside door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they
compare the both planes all the time,Is it needed ????
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Fultz <mailto:dfultz7@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish
by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger
plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I
would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on
this. Dale Fultz
----- Original Message -----
From: pollock <mailto:lbpollock@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of
3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas
that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid
fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas?
Bill
Moose 244
Message 5
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Hi Scott
I took photos of that underdash V brace and it goes at the top of the center
of firewall right below the dash, straight back to door post below dash not tied
into cross channel ,I think there idea was to secure the post in two spots
with 4130 tube one at the top of the cabin and one mid point.They did not like
the side skin between the fire wall to the post to take the stress load?
Thanks Dale and Scott for your input.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Aldrich
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Hi Bill,
I would have to see what and where they tied the second V brace into? You said
mid firewall so I assume not the same place as the top V brace. I could see
this helping if the second brace was in tied into the cross channel that runs
between the two top engine mounts (or an added channel). The firewall itself
is too flimsy to attach much stuff too (I think the v stiffener channels do
there job, except you can't mount anything to or through them) so I add a second
horizontal channel about 1/3 up from the bottom on the inside (bottom oil tank
attach points go through this channel on mine). We also added a vertical
channel on the front side right up the center from the bottom to the top cross
channel. We added a vertical channel on the inside at the top which goes up
behind the MAM V brace support angle. We changed the MAM V brace support angle
to steel with side gussets (Some used the aluminum angle but added gussets).
We did change our inner door posts to .063, we also changed the outer door post
skin but I can not remember the thickness - we changed to the seaplane style
doors so with the added lower "wedge" being all one piece it really stiffened
this area up.
The top of the dash is too flimsy - some have added a skin doubler on the top
of the dash where it meets the firewall. Others have replaced the entire top
dash skin with thicker aluminum. I added three channels up under the dash skin
from the firewall back to the top of the instrument panel. One in the center
(the V brace goes through this) and one at each crease in the dash skin on
the sides (where the instrument panel makes the angle change).
My fast build firewall is not flat. The top leans forward about 1/8 of an inch.
I discovered this because I removed the firewall and laid it flat to make
the jig for my engine mount. I then made my mount with all five attach point
on the same plane. So when I installed the engine mount and tightened all of
the mount bolts it pushed the top center of the firewall back. There was a loud
tin can "bang". The dash had buckled as the top of the firewall was forced
back by the center engine mount. Ended up moving the top center engine mount
hole up to relieve this pressure - that meant remaking the V brace mount as
the hole in it was too low now also (with the firewall leaning forward that effectively
lowers the top hole a little).
I remade the V - brace out of large thicker tube also - I wanted to be able to
grab it and not worry about bending it.
We beefed up the tail cone similar to what you did but we put V hat channel down
center of the bottom corner wraps. One Moose I know of has wrinkles in all
of these corner wraps. It was most likely due to a hard landing on floats so
not sure if that was necessary or not.
We added a wrap or doubler over the cargo door sill - if you use it much it will
get beat up dragging stuff in and out. We used 2024 for this and a lot of
other additions due to fewer tendencies to dent.
Some have added a doubler inside the fuselage corner wrap that is right behind
the gear leg - then installed the drag brace through it. I made the drag brace
a little longer.
We stiffened the top of the doors with internal channels but this was only because
of the seaplane door hinge on the top.
MAM's new Moose demonstrator (they bought C-GATR it is on my completions page
of website) has some sort of doublers in front of the rear float attach brackets.
I have only seen it in a picture so not sure exactly what they did. Murphy
did not build this Moose they purchased after it was already done so it is
NOT a MAM mode that we have not heard about. They just finished flying the time
off of it so it will most likely be at Arlington and Oshkosh for sure. No
indication on their web about it yet but St=E9phane said okay to tell - Ted knows
more about it as he has talked with Ryan Mowat who flew the time off (along
with Doug from MAM) they couldn't get it done in time for Sun n Fun.
Oh, just remembered - we replaced the inner rear door post skin strips with .063
also after installing the fuel lines down the posts. The .063 continues across
the bottom of the rear spar carry through.
This is unrelated to fuselage beef up but it really helps to add inspection holes
on the bottom of the fuselage right behind the firewall, particularly if
you have a bunch of stuff going through down there (we have air lines along with
fuel lines)
Sorry so long - can't think of anything else right now.
Also I can't say any of this is "needed" it just looked right to me at the time.
Scott
Moose 174
From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pollock
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 AM
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Hi Dale
The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the
fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside
door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare
the both planes all the time,Is it needed ????
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Fultz
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish
by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane
the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just
seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale
Fultz
----- Original Message -----
From: pollock
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage
I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces
of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas
that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire
wall and back to door post??? any ideas?
Bill
Moose 244
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