Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:37 AM - Re: exhaust outlet Question (KJKimball@aol.com)
2. 06:52 AM - Vertical stab variations (Chris In Madison)
3. 08:29 AM - Re: Vertical stab variations (ScottA)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: Vertical stab variations (ScottA)
5. 11:13 AM - Re: Vertical stab variations (Chris In Madison)
6. 11:17 AM - Re: Vertical stab variations (Chris In Madison)
7. 01:05 PM - Tailwheel issues (Jake Singleton)
8. 01:15 PM - Tailwheel issues (Jake Singleton)
9. 08:45 PM - Re: Tailwheel issues (ScottA)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust outlet Question |
Thanks Mark. That is the number we have too.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball,
VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
_www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/)
_www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Vertical stab variations |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Good morning all,
Looking through a number of photos of completed Meese, I noticed a pretty significant
difference in almost all of the vertical stabs, or at least the fairings
leading up to them. Some were really quite tall, while others not. Why the
variation? What benefits are realized by a larger surface area here?
I'm reading the current price list and in the available options I see a dorsal
fin kit (which I presume is the fairing ahead of the vertical stab), a seafin
kit (which I presume are the little wings I see on some horizontal stabs near
the elevator hinges), and a ventral fin kit (which I presume goes beneath the
vertical stab on the underside of the tail).
So, who among you are using a custom setup, and who has the one Murphy offers?
Do I need to plan for some additional work here, or are all the parts there?
I see that Scott did something custom here.
Are these parts replaceable/removable as the role of the aircraft changes (floats
vs. wheels)?
Best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55505#55505
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical stab variations |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
If going not going on floats the standard fin fairing is fine, nothing else needed.
It is the smallest one you see out there.
As you may already know on floats you need more vertical area to offset the yawing
moments that can be produced by the floats sticking out in front of the CG.
Without increased vertical stab area if you get a little yaw going the floats
tend to increase the yaw and it feels bad.
Not sure what "dorsal" fin kit MAM is selling now but my guess it is the larger
fiberglass one that you see on Mowat's Moose. (Email Nancy in shipping and see
if she can send a picture?) A few of us (see Steve's and Ron's on my completion
page) didn't like the look of that one (thought it didn't "flow" into the
fin very well) so we copied the C-185 - and made it out of aluminum. The bottom
ventral fin and stab sea fins are all just ways to increase the vertical area.
Those are all removable, but generally the top fin fairing is not. Originally
Montana Float came up with those on their installation.
Don't mean to try and be the shell answer man but stuck at the in-laws with bad
wx and an internet connection...
Plus not much activity on this site, hopefully more Moose guys will find it and
start using it.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55536#55536
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical stab variations |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
The problem with using the forum to post - no auto spell and grammer checker.
Of course that first sentence was "If not going on floats.."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55539#55539
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical stab variations |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Hehe... spell checker... good one :-)
I certainly appreciate your time, Mr. Answer Man. The more info out there, the
better. I, too, am glad my in-laws have an Internet conneciton, for the very
same reasons. I figure if I've got these seemingly odd questions, someone else
has probably thought about them, too. Hopefully, we can build up a reasonable
knowledge base here. I've already learned a lot :-)
I don't know a thing about seaplanes (other than I think I need one!), so I'm happy
for any info I get. Especially since nobody seems to be using the seaplane
forums. I never thought about the floats being ahead of the CG, but it makes
sense. The vertical stab area makes perfect sense now.
Appreciate the insight.
Best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55572#55572
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical stab variations |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Does the larger vertical stab area negatively affect aircraft performance when
on wheels? Seems like more sail area if landing in a crosswind. I've never flown
in a tailwheel aircraft, and I've got kind of a fear of the dreaded ground
loop I keep hearing about. I was out on Controller.com last night looking at
C-175s and C-185s and many of them had damage history from ground loops, although
they claim to have been repaired.
Best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55573#55573
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tailwheel issues |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "Jake Singleton" <singleberry@hotmail.com>
Attn Scott, (et al)
I noticed you had a mention of a tailwheel issue, please forgive me if I am
telling you something you already know. (I probably learned it off of a
link on your site, lol)
Quote:
I had a tail issue from a severe shimmy on my second landing. I
then put a "real"
(i.e. real expensive) tail wheel on and went back to the original
MAM stinger with a steel rod inside and have had no issues since. Of
course many variables so don't know the exact cause but I believe a
combination of too flexible stinger and a poorly machined tail wheel (it
was the "large" tail wheel from MAM that is really an Elite nose
wheel).
End Quote
I do know that the castor angle of the tailwheel pivot must be positive (ie
leading with the lower side of the tailwheel spindle, at least I think this
is considered positive) This seems counter-intuitive from a static
standpoint, but for dynamic stability it is very important.
A Murphy Moose builder had a wonderful write-up on this issue of which I now
can not locate but could re-create if anyone wanted.
Cheers all
Jake
(Wishing I had a moose to build)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tailwheel issues |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "Jake Singleton" <singleberry@hotmail.com>
Of course the second I send that I find the link I was looking for, it is
off of Ted Waltman's web site, and redirects you to the following article
http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php
cheers
Jake
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel issues |
--> MurphyMoose-List message posted by: "ScottA" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
Thanks Jake,
I do agree with that article on tail wheel angles. It gets confusing because everybody
has a different idea of what is "positive" and what is "negative" castor
angle. There is a link at the bottom of that article showing "good" and "bad"
geometry. I agree with it as do all the high time TW guys I talked too -
but you find just as many that don't agree.
Flat is ideal but you don't want to start flat because as you load you will go
negative angle (which many think is "good" - I do not). Also the angle is only
part of the shimmy story the tightness ("preload" is what XP calls it) of the
tail wheel swivel makes a big difference - especially on the large tail wheels
and needs to be tightened periodically.
FWIW
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55672#55672
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