MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive

Fri 01/15/10


Total Messages Posted: 2



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:47 PM - Moose style fuel system diagram needed (DAVID STROUD)
     2. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 (lawsondj@comcast.net)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:47:23 PM PST US
    From: "DAVID STROUD" <dstroud@xplornet.com>
    Subject: Moose style fuel system diagram needed
    Giday George. Do you know if anyone has a diagram of an appropriate fuel system for a homebuilt similar to a Moose ? My Fairchild will have three tanks leading to a common manifold and then on to the gascolator etc., but I'm not familiar with the Huosai system needs after the gascolator. I'm thinking it must be very similar to the needs of an M14P. I've appealed to two lists for help with this but to no avail. I'd sure be willing to pay for a diagram. I'm not sure if I need a debubbler and I'm not sure if the pressure carb has it's own relief for excess fuel/ vapour or does that have to get built into the fuel supply just before the carb ? I hear it is a good thing to use an aux electric fuel pump for backup and prime and would like to build that in. I don't plan to do any flying inverted or such. Thanks. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada Christavia C-FDWS Fairchild 51 replica under construction C-FYXV ----- Original Message ----- From: George Coy To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 I have to comment on the fuel system design for the Moose.There has been at least one accident that can be traced to a poor fuel system design. When designing the fuel system please bear in mind that the pressure carburetor is like a throttle body injection system. there is no float bowl or and storage of fuel in the carburetor. One drop of air and it is like turning the magnetos to the OFF position until the air is worked through the engine. Worse yet if there is a slug of air it can cause the mechanical fuel pump to cavitate and the fuel pressure to drop. It is called a pressure carb because it requires fuel pressure to work. No pressure and no fuel. It is rather instantaneous. We highly recommend a vapor return system as part of your fuel system. It allows fuel to be returned to the header or main tank. Another gotcha is a partial loop with a horizontal section of the fuel line between the pump and the carburetor. This is often done to accommodate a fuel flow sensor. It can trap a bubble of air that will move along to the carb when the aircraft changes pitch and or at high power settings. (Like take Off). The Yaks use a system with a return line with a restrictor in it . This allows the pump to maintain fuel pressure while allowing for a fuel return path for any vapors or air. George Coy Motorstar NA 714 Airport Rd. Swanton VT 05488 802-868-5633 off 802-363-5782 cell george.coy@gmail.com SKYPE george.coy motorstarna.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:43 AM To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 Hello, Sylvain. Any chance you may have a fuel system diagram you could let me have a copy of, please ? I need to understand everything forward of the gascolator including any fuel returns to main tank(s) and electric boost pump. Thank you. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada Christavia C-FDWS Fairchild 51 replica under construction C-FYXV ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvain April To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:36 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 Hi, I ram my moose radial without the wings, you must make sure your fuselage it is well attached because this engine is pulling really hard. Regards Sylvain April > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:56:51 -0800 > From: murphymoose-list@matronics.com > To: murphymoose-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 > > * > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose > > > ====================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ====================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 01/12/10: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 02:45 PM - Re: Murphy Moose (HBaker) > 2. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Greg Young) > 3. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Jeff Micheal) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:45:44 PM PST US > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > From: "HBaker" <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > Hi Jeff > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings attached > to the A/C. > > Henry > > Moose 294 > > -------- > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:09:31 PM PST US > From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com> > Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > > > I'm not sure how stabile the Moose is but there's a video floating around > the web of a Lancair IV that started his engine sans wings. He wrapped it in > a ball. Why risk it? > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On > > Behalf Of HBaker > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:45 PM > > To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com > > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > > > > --> <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > > Hi Jeff > > > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with > > out the wings attached to the A/C. > > > > Henry > > > > Moose 294 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:51:15 PM PST US > Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > From: Jeff Micheal <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com> > > Hi Henry, > > Are you going to video your start up ? > > The only Murphy start up without wings that I know of is the Rebel Radial, > the wheels chocked and aircraft tail was secured. So you can start up > without wings on a Rebel, I can't say if it would be the same for the > Moose....... > > Cheers, > Jeff > > Good luck with the start up........ hope everything goes well. Be Safe. > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, HBaker <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > > Hi Jeff > > > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings > > attached to the A/C. > > > > Henry > > > > Moose 294 > > > > -------- > > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207 > > > > > > ===================== >==================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Spread the cheer with Messenger for mobile. Learn more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Release Date: 01/12/10 07:35:00 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/13/10 07:35:00


    Message 2


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    Time: 10:12:38 PM PST US
    From: lawsondj@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
    George, I, for one, plan to use the "bubbler tank",(pressure vessel) from a Yak with the restrictor and return line. My question concerns where does the return line go back to? In the Yak, the return line goes back to the header tank, but I don't have a header tank in the Moose. I could take the return line to a pair of vented 1.5 gal surge tanks located under the floor . Each surge tank is fed independently from its corresponding wing tank. That means a split in the return line to each surge tank and probably the need for check valves at ends of the return lines. An alternative is to run the return line up to, and couple into, the common vent line between the two wing tanks. Any experience as to which would be better? Also, is a check valve needed in the return line to prevent reverse fuel into the bubbler tank when the fuel system is shut down? Thanks, Jack Joos, SR 193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:56:18 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 I have to comment on the fuel system design for the Moose.There has been at least one accident that can be traced to a poor fuel system design. When designing the fuel system please bear in mind that the pressure carburetor is like a throttle body injection system. there is no float bowl or and storage of fuel in the carburetor. One drop of air and it is like turning the magnetos to the OFF position until the air is worked through the engine. Worse yet if there is a slug of air it can cause the mechanical fuel pump to cavitate and the fuel pressure to drop. It is called a pressure carb because it requires fuel pressure to work. No pressure and no fuel. It is rather instantaneous. We highly recommend a vapor return system as part of your fuel system. It allows fuel to be returned to the header or main tank. Another gotcha is a partial loop with a horizontal section of the fuel line between the pump and the carburetor. This is often done to accommodate a fuel flow sensor. It can trap a bubble of air that will move along to the carb when the aircraft changes pitch and or at high power settings. (Like take Off). The Yaks use a system with a return line with a restrictor in it . This allows the pump to maintain fuel pressure while allowing for a fuel return path for any vapors or air. George Coy Motorstar NA 714 Airport Rd. Swanton VT 05488 802-868-5633 off 802-363-5782 cell george.coy@gmail.com SKYPE george.coy motorstarna.com From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:43 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 Hello, Sylvain. Any chance you may have a fuel system diagram you could let me have a copy of, please ? I need to understand everything forward of the gascolator including any fuel returns to main tank(s) and electric boost pump. Thank you. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada Christavia C-FDWS Fairchild 51 replica under construction C-FYXV ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvain April Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:36 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 Hi, I ram my moose radial without the wings, you must make sure your fuselage it is well attached because this engine is pulling really hard. Regards Sylvain April > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:56:51 -0800 > From: murphymoose-list@matronics.com > To: murphymoose-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 > > * > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose > > > ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 01/12/10: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 02:45 PM - Re: Murphy Moose (HBaker) > 2. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Greg Young) > 3. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Jeff Micheal) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:45:44 PM PST US > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > From: "HBaker" <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > Hi Jeff > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings attached > to the A/C. > > Henry > > Moose 294 > > -------- > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:09:31 PM PST US > From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com> > Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > > > I'm not sure how stabile the Moose is but there's a video floating around > the web of a Lancair IV that started his engine sans wings. He wrapped it in > a ball. Why risk it? > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On > > Behalf Of HBaker > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:45 PM > > To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com > > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > > > > --> <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > > Hi Jeff > > > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with > > out the wings attached to the A/C. > > > > Henry > > > > Moose 294 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:51:15 PM PST US > Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose > From: Jeff Micheal <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com> > > Hi Henry, > > Are you going to video your start up ? > > The only Murphy start up without wings that I know of is the Rebel Radial, > the wheels chocked and aircraft tail was secured. So you can start up > without wings on a Rebel, I can't say if it would be the same for the > Moose....... > > Cheers, > Jeff > > Good luck with the start up........ hope everything goes well. Be Safe. > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, HBaker <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> > > > > Hi Jeff > > > > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings > > attached to the A/C. > > > > Henry > > > > Moose 294 > > > > -------- > > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207 > > > > > > ====================== >===================== > > > > Spread the cheer with Messenger for mobile. Learn more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - Release Date: 01/12/10 07:35:00 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com




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