Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:47 PM - Moose style fuel system diagram needed (DAVID STROUD)
2. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 (lawsondj@comcast.net)
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Subject: | Moose style fuel system diagram needed |
Giday George. Do you know if anyone has a diagram of an appropriate fuel
system for a
homebuilt similar to a Moose ? My Fairchild will have three tanks
leading to a common
manifold and then on to the gascolator etc., but I'm not familiar with
the Huosai system needs
after the gascolator. I'm thinking it must be very similar to the needs
of an M14P. I've appealed
to two lists for help with this but to no avail. I'd sure be willing to
pay for a diagram. I'm not sure
if I need a debubbler and I'm not sure if the pressure carb has it's own
relief for excess fuel/
vapour or does that have to get built into the fuel supply just before
the carb ? I hear it is a good
thing to use an aux electric fuel pump for backup and prime and would
like to build that in. I don't
plan to do any flying inverted or such. Thanks.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: George Coy
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs -
01/12/10
I have to comment on the fuel system design for the Moose.There has
been at least one accident that can be traced to a poor fuel system
design. When designing the fuel system please bear in mind that the
pressure carburetor is like a throttle body injection system. there is
no float bowl or and storage of fuel in the carburetor. One drop of air
and it is like turning the magnetos to the OFF position until the air is
worked through the engine. Worse yet if there is a slug of air it can
cause the mechanical fuel pump to cavitate and the fuel pressure to
drop. It is called a pressure carb because it requires fuel pressure to
work. No pressure and no fuel. It is rather instantaneous.
We highly recommend a vapor return system as part of your fuel
system. It allows fuel to be returned to the header or main tank.
Another gotcha is a partial loop with a horizontal section of the fuel
line between the pump and the carburetor. This is often done to
accommodate a fuel flow sensor. It can trap a bubble of air that will
move along to the carb when the aircraft changes pitch and or at high
power settings. (Like take Off). The Yaks use a system with a return
line with a restrictor in it . This allows the pump to maintain fuel
pressure while allowing for a fuel return path for any vapors or air.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID
STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:43 AM
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs -
01/12/10
Hello, Sylvain. Any chance you may have a fuel system diagram you
could let me have
a copy of, please ? I need to understand everything forward of the
gascolator including
any fuel returns to main tank(s) and electric boost pump. Thank you.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Sylvain April
To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:36 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs -
01/12/10
Hi,
I ram my moose radial without the wings, you must make sure your
fuselage it is well attached because this engine is pulling really hard.
Regards
Sylvain April
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:56:51 -0800
> From: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
> To: murphymoose-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
>
> *
>
>
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
> Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in
either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose
>
>
>
======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>
======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 01/12/10: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 02:45 PM - Re: Murphy Moose (HBaker)
> 2. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Greg Young)
> 3. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Jeff Micheal)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:45:44 PM PST US
> Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> From: "HBaker" <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
>
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the
wings attached
> to the A/C.
>
> Henry
>
> Moose 294
>
> --------
> Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:09:31 PM PST US
> From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
> Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
>
>
> I'm not sure how stabile the Moose is but there's a video floating
around
> the web of a Lancair IV that started his engine sans wings. He
wrapped it in
> a ball. Why risk it?
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of HBaker
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:45 PM
> > To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> >
> > --> <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Hi Jeff
> >
> > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with
> > out the wings attached to the A/C.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Moose 294
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:51:15 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> From: Jeff Micheal <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> Are you going to video your start up ?
>
> The only Murphy start up without wings that I know of is the Rebel
Radial,
> the wheels chocked and aircraft tail was secured. So you can start
up
> without wings on a Rebel, I can't say if it would be the same for
the
> Moose.......
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
> Good luck with the start up........ hope everything goes well. Be
Safe.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, HBaker
<henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Hi Jeff
> >
> > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out
the wings
> > attached to the A/C.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Moose 294
> >
> > --------
> > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be
appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207
> >
> >
>
> =====================
>====================
>
>
>
>
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01/13/10 07:35:00
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10 |
George,
I, for one, plan to use the "bubbler tank",(pressure vessel) from a Yak with the
restrictor and return line. My question concerns where does the return line
go back to? In the Yak, the return line goes back to the header tank, but I don't
have a header tank in the Moose. I could take the return line to a pair of
vented 1.5 gal surge tanks located under the floor . Each surge tank is fed independently
from its corresponding wing tank. That means a split in the return
line to each surge tank and probably the need for check valves at ends of the
return lines. An alternative is to run the return line up to, and couple into,
the common vent line between the two wing tanks. Any experience as to which
would be better? Also, is a check valve needed in the return line to prevent
reverse fuel into the bubbler tank when the fuel system is shut down?
Thanks,
Jack Joos, SR 193
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:56:18 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
I have to comment on the fuel system design for the Moose.There has been at least
one accident that can be traced to a poor fuel system design. When designing
the fuel system please bear in mind that the pressure carburetor is like a throttle
body injection system. there is no float bowl or and storage of fuel in
the carburetor. One drop of air and it is like turning the magnetos to the OFF
position until the air is worked through the engine. Worse yet if there is
a slug of air it can cause the mechanical fuel pump to cavitate and the fuel pressure
to drop. It is called a pressure carb because it requires fuel pressure
to work. No pressure and no fuel. It is rather instantaneous.
We highly recommend a vapor return system as part of your fuel system. It allows
fuel to be returned to the header or main tank. Another gotcha is a partial
loop with a horizontal section of the fuel line between the pump and the carburetor.
This is often done to accommodate a fuel flow sensor. It can trap a bubble
of air that will move along to the carb when the aircraft changes pitch and
or at high power settings. (Like take Off). The Yaks use a system with a return
line with a restrictor in it . This allows the pump to maintain fuel pressure
while allowing for a fuel return path for any vapors or air.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com
From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
Hello, Sylvain. Any chance you may have a fuel system diagram you could let me
have
a copy of, please ? I need to understand everything forward of the gascolator including
any fuel returns to main tank(s) and electric boost pump. Thank you.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Sylvain April
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:36 AM
Subject: MurphyMoose-List: RE: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
Hi,
I ram my moose radial without the wings, you must make sure your fuselage it is
well attached because this engine is pulling really hard.
Regards
Sylvain April
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:56:51 -0800
> From: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
> To: murphymoose-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/12/10
>
> *
>
>
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
> Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-01-12&Archive=MurphyMoose
>
>
> =======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> =======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 01/12/10: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 02:45 PM - Re: Murphy Moose (HBaker)
> 2. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Greg Young)
> 3. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Murphy Moose (Jeff Micheal)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:45:44 PM PST US
> Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> From: "HBaker" <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
>
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings attached
> to the A/C.
>
> Henry
>
> Moose 294
>
> --------
> Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:09:31 PM PST US
> From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
> Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
>
>
> I'm not sure how stabile the Moose is but there's a video floating around
> the web of a Lancair IV that started his engine sans wings. He wrapped it in
> a ball. Why risk it?
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of HBaker
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:45 PM
> > To: murphymoose-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> >
> > --> <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Hi Jeff
> >
> > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with
> > out the wings attached to the A/C.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Moose 294
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:51:15 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Murphy Moose
> From: Jeff Micheal <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> Are you going to video your start up ?
>
> The only Murphy start up without wings that I know of is the Rebel Radial,
> the wheels chocked and aircraft tail was secured. So you can start up
> without wings on a Rebel, I can't say if it would be the same for the
> Moose.......
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
> Good luck with the start up........ hope everything goes well. Be Safe.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, HBaker <henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > henry.baker@nf.sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Hi Jeff
> >
> > Getting ready to start the engine , can this be done with out the wings
> > attached to the A/C.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Moose 294
> >
> > --------
> > Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281207#281207
> >
> >
>
> ======================
>=====================
>
>
>
>
Spread the cheer with Messenger for mobile. Learn more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List
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