Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: Over- rated Convairs (Michael Conkling)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Adjustable Trim (Ken Rickards)
3. 06:52 AM - Trim & other drawings online thanks to Carl Loar (Michael D Cuy)
4. 07:18 AM - Re: Trim & other drawings online thanks to Carl L (Ken Rickards)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: thoughtfully rated Corvairs (del magsam)
6. 01:05 PM - DXF Pietenpol Drawings (Gary McNeel, Jr.)
7. 01:13 PM - Weight and Balance... (Gary McNeel, Jr.)
8. 01:17 PM - Weight and Balance... (Gary McNeel, Jr.)
9. 01:38 PM - Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings (Kent Hallsten)
10. 01:38 PM - Airfoil (Chris)
11. 02:13 PM - Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings (DJ Vegh)
12. 02:15 PM - Re: Airfoil (DJ Vegh)
13. 02:33 PM - Re:Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings (catdesigns@juno.com)
14. 02:37 PM - Re:Airfoil (catdesigns@juno.com)
15. 02:55 PM - lift and weigh (Carl Loar)
16. 03:05 PM - Re: lift and weigh (del magsam)
17. 03:12 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (walter evans)
18. 03:29 PM - Re: lift and weigh (walter evans)
19. 03:33 PM - Re:Airfoil (The Huizenga's)
20. 03:36 PM - Re:Airfoil (The Huizenga's)
21. 03:38 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (DJ Vegh)
22. 03:47 PM - my friend put me with the pics of the guys that fly at our field (walter evans)
23. 04:22 PM - data on the fabric punch test (walter evans)
24. 04:41 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (walter evans)
25. 05:13 PM - Re: Airfoil (Kevin Holcomb)
26. 05:29 PM - Re: lift and weigh (Richard Navratril)
27. 06:16 PM - Re: Re:Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings (William Dearinger)
28. 06:20 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (del magsam)
29. 06:45 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (William Dearinger)
30. 06:58 PM - Re: lift and weigh (Gene Rambo)
31. 07:04 PM - Re: my friend put me with the pics of the guys that fly at our field (Gene Rambo)
32. 08:20 PM - Re: 65HP climb rate (Kip & Beth Gardner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Over- rated Convairs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs@southwind.net>
So.... you guys going to "race" for "N" numbers, Airworthiness slips or
what?? -- got to make it interesting for us on the ground watching!!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Over- rated Convairs
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
>
> OK fellows,
>
> Bring 'em on, your 100+ hp Corvairs. Any time, any place!
>
> Also bring your scales so that we can have equal gross weights. Same
airport, same time, climb to 10,000 feet above sea level. Altimeters to be
yellow tagged, set to same barometric pressure and three judges in a chase
plane.
>
> Brodhead next year perhaps?
>
> John Dilatush NX114D
> Salida, Colorado
>
>
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Thanks Jack, I have Mike Cuy's Video but haven't looked at it for a while.
Where did you get the plans for this design.
Ken.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips [mailto:jackphillips@earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Adjustable Trim
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
<jackphillips@earthlink.net>
HI Ken,
I installed a spring type system similar to the one Mike Cuy designed. I
haven't flown yet so can't say how it works, but Mike uses his and has good
results with it. It consists of a pair of springs that pull on the elevator
bellcrank. Moving a lever changes the tension on the springs, thus changing
the loading on the stick.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken & Lisa
Rickards
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Adjustable Trim
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken & Lisa Rickards"
<KL0914@cogeco.ca>
Has anyone installed adjustable trim on their Piet or GN1? If so, was it
from plans, or, parden the pun, did you just wing it? looking for any
details before I get going on my elevators.
Ken
Message 3
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| Subject: | Trim & other drawings online thanks to Carl Loar |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Group---Carl Loar has been kind enough to post some of his and my
chicken-scratch
drawings on his web site. Check them out if you like
at: http://cvl.virtualave.net/mikedraw.htm
Message 4
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| Subject: | Trim & other drawings online thanks to Carl L |
oar
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Thanks Michael. All will be useful.
I really enjoyed your video!
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy [mailto:Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trim & other drawings online thanks to Carl
Loar
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Group---Carl Loar has been kind enough to post some of his and my
chicken-scratch
drawings on his web site. Check them out if you like
at: http://cvl.virtualave.net/mikedraw.htm
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: thoughtfully rated Corvairs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
John
what you are saying is mostly true. but with a little
inconsistensy...the only way to measure horsepower is
to measure the final result on a dyno, although
comparing it to another engine with a known horsepower
will give you a really good idea, if it will move an
airplane at the same speed etc.
but now you are pushing numbers around and saying the
vair doesn't add up, is that measuring the final
result? what about all of the unknown values? such as
drag, aerodynamics, OAT, altitude etc etc.
I don't have a dyno, but what I do have is information
from many different sources that I have compiled that
give me a good idea that Williams claims are legit and
given in a "thoughtful way". I have installing a vair
in a sonex and will be comparing it to a Jab 3300
which has a advertised horsepower value of 120. from
the info that I have gathered I know the vair will use
the same prop as that engine. when the airplane flys I
will do a careful thoughtful report, so that others
will be reassured that the engine is doing, or not
doing, what william has reported. And if its not
doing, I will find out why. This report will be from a
"final result".
Del
--- John Dilatush <dilatush@amigo.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John
> Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
>
> Oscar,
>
> A simulated set of curves comparing one engine's
> performance, even using the same prop does not give
> you the standard measurement for horsepower. It
> only gives you a set of comparative values. What if
> the engine that you are using for comparison has
> over or understated it's horsepower? Or perhaps the
> comparison engine is developing it's stated
> horsepower at a different rpm? You are only
> comparing one engine against another.
>
> There is only one way to measure horsepower and that
> is on a dyno (water brake or other) which will
> measure the foot pounds of torque produced by the
> engine at different rpm's using a wide open throttle
> setting. Then one can use the standard formula
> which is: Horsepower torque times rpm and this
> result divided by 5252. This result has to be
> corrected for standard temperature and pressure
> then. Only when this is done, can the horsepower
> and torque curves be plotted.
>
> When I was designing and racing sport cars, many
> many years ago, I had a dyno in the shop and tested
> a fair number of engines. I found that in some
> cases even the manufacturers overstated their
> outputs (a couple were conservative, probably to
> fool the competition). It is only human nature to
> exaggerate the numbers a little bit if the product
> is their pride and joy.
>
> I am only saying that Wynne's numbers don't add up,
> or else he would actually have a better rate of
> climb than he says. A Corvair is a good engine, no
> question about that, it simply needs to be presented
> to the users in a thoughtful and well documented
> manner.
>
> John
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
Message 6
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| Subject: | DXF Pietenpol Drawings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Does anyone have any 3D .dxf or .3ds Piet drawings? Or a good 2D side view
in CorelDraw would work too. If so, would you send it to me directly?
Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel@mykitplane.com
gmcneel@simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=68
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Hey all. I took the little weight and balance chart from Carl's website and
made it into a JavaScript one. No picture of the Piet yet, but the
calculations (highly complex, I must say) ;) work. You get to do the
rounding up or down on your own for now.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel@mykitplane.com
gmcneel@simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=68
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Oops! forgot the link:
http://www.mykitplane.com/planes/pietenpolWeightAndBalance.cfm
Hey all. I took the little weight and balance chart from Carl's website and
made it into a JavaScript one. No picture of the Piet yet, but the
calculations (highly complex, I must say) ;) work. You get to do the
rounding up or down on your own for now.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel@mykitplane.com
gmcneel@simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=68
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
Message 9
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| Subject: | DXF Pietenpol Drawings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
I also would like one, please.
Thanks
Kent Hallsten pietbuilder@yahoo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary McNeel, Jr. [mailto:gmcneel@mykitplane.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DXF Pietenpol Drawings
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Does anyone have any 3D .dxf or .3ds Piet drawings? Or a good 2D side view
in CorelDraw would work too. If so, would you send it to me directly?
Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Does anyone know what Airfoil the Air camper uses and have the data for
it?
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I have one in .3ds and lightwave formats... I thought it may have been up on
your website...
if not I'll email it to ya...
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary McNeel, Jr.
To: Pietenpol Group
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DXF Pietenpol Drawings
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Does anyone have any 3D .dxf or .3ds Piet drawings? Or a good 2D side view
in CorelDraw would work too. If so, would you send it to me directly?
Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel@mykitplane.com
gmcneel@simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID43
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID68
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
=
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Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
as I recall the airfoil is called an FC-10
FC denotes that a drafters french curve was used.. and the 10 denotes that it took
Bernie 10 minutes to draw it up....
true story... other than that I have no further info
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoil
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Does anyone know what Airfoil the Air camper uses and have the data for
it?
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: catdesigns@juno.com
I have a side view and a top view drawn in MS Paint (BMP file). It comes in Ford,
Lycoming, and Corvair engine versions as well as strait and spring style gear.
If you want the file (and I can find it on my hard drive) I will send it
to whomever wants it. It is not to scale but it looks very close. No 3D drawing,
sorry.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
---------- "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@governair.com> writes:
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: DXF Pietenpol Drawings
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
I also would like one, please.
Thanks
Kent Hallsten pietbuilder@yahoo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary McNeel, Jr. [mailto:gmcneel@mykitplane.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DXF Pietenpol Drawings
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Does anyone have any 3D .dxf or .3ds Piet drawings? Or a good 2D side view
in CorelDraw would work too. If so, would you send it to me directly?
Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: catdesigns@juno.com
Pietenpol drew up his own airfoil based on his trial and error efforts (IE build
it, fly it, crash it). Sorry no data is avalible that I am aware of.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
---------- Chris <chrisw3@cox.net> writes:
From: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoil
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Does anyone know what Airfoil the Air camper uses and have the data for
it?
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@megsinet.net>
Here's one I thought I'd throw out to the group. What seems to be the best
way to lift the plane when you
are getting ready to weigh it. Since one side has the scale and the other
has to be blocked to level, I was
wondering what different techiques have been used to do this. I know this
sounds dumb but as I was freezing
my behind the other day in the hanger looking at the bird and thinking, how
should I do this.
Thanks,, Carl
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: lift and weigh |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
Carl
Its better to roll it up on the scales because when
you lift it and set it down the wheels push out as the
weight settles on it.
Del
--- Carl Loar <skycarl@megsinet.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar"
> <skycarl@megsinet.net>
>
> Here's one I thought I'd throw out to the group.
> What seems to be the best
> way to lift the plane when you
> are getting ready to weigh it. Since one side has
> the scale and the other
> has to be blocked to level, I was
> wondering what different techiques have been used to
> do this. I know this
> sounds dumb but as I was freezing
> my behind the other day in the hanger looking at the
> bird and thinking, how
> should I do this.
> Thanks,, Carl
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
Sorry that I haven't followed this conversation completely, cause I just
walked in the door 2 hours ago from 5 days away.
This debate comes along every year or so, and just wanted to throw in my two
cents.
If you look at sites estimating HP of certain engines, what they tell you is
that it's just physics, you can only get so much power out of a certain
displacement engine, give or take, without supercharging, at a certain RPM.
period. That's it.
My Mentor, who has been in the business for alot of years, is very much
against these claims of high HP from a Corvair. He has built a few gear
reduced Corvair engines, that put out more HP ( and wanted to gear them more
for more HP)
His estimate of output for a nongeared Corvair is , I believe, around 50 to
60 HP at normal prop. rpm. Think he said that they are very smooth which
gives you the feeling that it is more powerful.
walt
PS My a-65 piet climbs at 700 FPM, and I'm still smiling
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> ++++++++++++++++++++
> Oscar,
>
> I don't mean that :YOU have made these claims for horsepower and
> performance, I know that these are the figures that Wynne comes up with.
To
> me, they just don't check out. I have heard that he is running direct
drive
> at a fairly high rpm, but where do the curves show the horsepower at THIS
> rpm, not at the top of the curve? I't just that his quoted performance
and
> claimed horsepower numbers don't add up. I for one, would like to see the
> actual curves published on his web site, not just his claims.
>
> I have always felt that a Corvair engine is a fine engine and very suited
to
> use in a airplane, and I would certainly not hesitate to use one. But I
> don't believe that one in his enthusiasm for the engine should overrate
it's
> output at the ACTUAL RPM'S that are used to turn a prop in a plane. I
> would worry that someone not too knowlegable would attempt to put an
> over-rated Covair into an air frame that is designed for, say a 100 hp
> Lycoming and then find that the performance is disappointing . Probably
> would spend the rest of his days bad mouthing auto conversions!
>
> As for your suggestion that I would challenge anyone to a climb contest, I
> would not pit my 111 hp engine against a 145 hp engine. There is no
> question that the 145 hp engine would win! Both engines are working at
> their peak power with props designed for the engine at that rpm and
properly
> matched to the airframe. And it is actual, not guessed at, horsepower
that
> will determine the rate of climb. But put my plane against a CLAIMED 110
hp
> Corvair Pietenpol and I'll be willing to bet the farm that my plane would
> win!
>
> John
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > John writes:
> >
> > >we would predict a rate of climb of 1056 fpm!
> > >Yet he gets only max rate of climb of 700 fpm and sometimes less
> > >This might indicate that his horsepower ratings are somewhat
> > >optimistic.
> >
> > Well, I didn't want to over-inflate the claims that William makes, but
> they
> > are there for the world to see on his website at
> http://www.flycorvair.com.
> > Based on the actual, measured static RPM and actual, measured thrust
that
> > William's plane was getting, it developed more like 110 HP. The point
> was,
> > as Mike Cuy explained, you need to know your plane's limitations based
on
> > what engine you have bolted to the firewall because there are things you
> > just can't do with 65 or less horsepower up there. I will also point
out
> > that the climb rates that William stated were with passengers, in the
busy
> > traffic pattern at SNF. You really don't want to be climbing out at
best
> > climb in traffic or with passengers if there aren't any obstacles to
> clear,
> > due to reduced visibility over the nose and speeds nearer to stall.
Given
> > that the plane was not being operated at best climb, the stated climbs
> were
> > pretty good. William quoted some climb numbers higher than this to me
but
> I
> > didn't use them in my post because the point was made without them.
> >
> > To the rest of the folks on this list, be aware that John is running a
> > turbocharged Subaru with a redrive, so his Piet will have truly stellar
> > climb performance and if I were him I would challenge that
Warner-powered
> > Piet to a climb contest! And if I may again state my innermost feelings
> > about the quintessential Piet image, it is of a plane that has a
radiator
> > out in front and an inline Ford 4-cylinder driving the prop!
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: lift and weigh |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
I just made some 2X6 ramps. I controlled the tail, while two friends
"turned" the wheels up the ramps.( If one pulls a little too much, the tail
will be all over the place). Weighing the plane seems like a big process,
but once you get it on the scales and leveled, You just need a plumbbob and
tape measure to call out the measure points. Then put the plane away and go
home to the calculator. Or use one of the programs.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift and weigh
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@megsinet.net>
>
> Here's one I thought I'd throw out to the group. What seems to be the best
> way to lift the plane when you
> are getting ready to weigh it. Since one side has the scale and the other
> has to be blocked to level, I was
> wondering what different techiques have been used to do this. I know this
> sounds dumb but as I was freezing
> my behind the other day in the hanger looking at the bird and thinking,
how
> should I do this.
> Thanks,, Carl
>
>
Message 19
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|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Huizenga's" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
I believe that the Flying and Glider manual with the Aircamper
references a modification to an existing airfoil. Take a look if you
have the manual or I'll see if I can find it.
Kirk
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: catdesigns@juno.com
>
>Pietenpol drew up his own airfoil based on his trial and error
>efforts (IE build it, fly it, crash it). Sorry no data is avalible
>that I am aware of.
>
>Chris
>Sacramento, Ca
>
>---------- Chris <chrisw3@cox.net> writes:
>
>From: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoil
>Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:38:31 -0600
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
>Does anyone know what Airfoil the Air camper uses and have the data for
>it?
>
>--
>Chris Woodhouse
>3147 SW 127th St.
>Oklahoma City, OK 73170
>405-691-5206 (home)
>chrisw@programmer.net
>N35 20.492'
>W97 34.342'
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
Message 20
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Huizenga's" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Well, I found my copy sooner than expected and B.H.P states on page 16 that
"I am told by experts that the curve is practically an Eiffel 36,
with ordinances increased 25% all alond the chord." Later it says
that the "Eiffel 36 was the curve used by the Curtiss Jennies."
Hope this helps - even though I could never find any info on the
Eiffel airfoils
Kirk
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
50-60 hp at normal prop RPM's?? I assume you mean cruise??
....even at cruise I KNOW the 'vair gives more than 60hp.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans"
<wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Sorry that I haven't followed this conversation completely, cause I just
> walked in the door 2 hours ago from 5 days away.
> This debate comes along every year or so, and just wanted to throw in my
two
> cents.
> If you look at sites estimating HP of certain engines, what they tell you
is
> that it's just physics, you can only get so much power out of a certain
> displacement engine, give or take, without supercharging, at a certain
RPM.
> period. That's it.
> My Mentor, who has been in the business for alot of years, is very much
> against these claims of high HP from a Corvair. He has built a few gear
> reduced Corvair engines, that put out more HP ( and wanted to gear them
more
> for more HP)
> His estimate of output for a nongeared Corvair is , I believe, around 50
to
> 60 HP at normal prop. rpm. Think he said that they are very smooth which
> gives you the feeling that it is more powerful.
> walt
> PS My a-65 piet climbs at 700 FPM, and I'm still smiling
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush"
<dilatush@amigo.net>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> > <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > ++++++++++++++++++++
> > Oscar,
> >
> > I don't mean that :YOU have made these claims for horsepower and
> > performance, I know that these are the figures that Wynne comes up with.
> To
> > me, they just don't check out. I have heard that he is running direct
> drive
> > at a fairly high rpm, but where do the curves show the horsepower at
THIS
> > rpm, not at the top of the curve? I't just that his quoted performance
> and
> > claimed horsepower numbers don't add up. I for one, would like to see
the
> > actual curves published on his web site, not just his claims.
> >
> > I have always felt that a Corvair engine is a fine engine and very
suited
> to
> > use in a airplane, and I would certainly not hesitate to use one. But I
> > don't believe that one in his enthusiasm for the engine should overrate
> it's
> > output at the ACTUAL RPM'S that are used to turn a prop in a plane. I
> > would worry that someone not too knowlegable would attempt to put an
> > over-rated Covair into an air frame that is designed for, say a 100 hp
> > Lycoming and then find that the performance is disappointing .
Probably
> > would spend the rest of his days bad mouthing auto conversions!
> >
> > As for your suggestion that I would challenge anyone to a climb contest,
I
> > would not pit my 111 hp engine against a 145 hp engine. There is no
> > question that the 145 hp engine would win! Both engines are working at
> > their peak power with props designed for the engine at that rpm and
> properly
> > matched to the airframe. And it is actual, not guessed at, horsepower
> that
> > will determine the rate of climb. But put my plane against a CLAIMED
110
> hp
> > Corvair Pietenpol and I'll be willing to bet the farm that my plane
would
> > win!
> >
> > John
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > >
> > > John writes:
> > >
> > > >we would predict a rate of climb of 1056 fpm!
> > > >Yet he gets only max rate of climb of 700 fpm and sometimes less
> > > >This might indicate that his horsepower ratings are somewhat
> > > >optimistic.
> > >
> > > Well, I didn't want to over-inflate the claims that William makes, but
> > they
> > > are there for the world to see on his website at
> > http://www.flycorvair.com.
> > > Based on the actual, measured static RPM and actual, measured thrust
> that
> > > William's plane was getting, it developed more like 110 HP. The point
> > was,
> > > as Mike Cuy explained, you need to know your plane's limitations based
> on
> > > what engine you have bolted to the firewall because there are things
you
> > > just can't do with 65 or less horsepower up there. I will also point
> out
> > > that the climb rates that William stated were with passengers, in the
> busy
> > > traffic pattern at SNF. You really don't want to be climbing out at
> best
> > > climb in traffic or with passengers if there aren't any obstacles to
> > clear,
> > > due to reduced visibility over the nose and speeds nearer to stall.
> Given
> > > that the plane was not being operated at best climb, the stated climbs
> > were
> > > pretty good. William quoted some climb numbers higher than this to me
> but
> > I
> > > didn't use them in my post because the point was made without them.
> > >
> > > To the rest of the folks on this list, be aware that John is running a
> > > turbocharged Subaru with a redrive, so his Piet will have truly
stellar
> > > climb performance and if I were him I would challenge that
> Warner-powered
> > > Piet to a climb contest! And if I may again state my innermost
feelings
> > > about the quintessential Piet image, it is of a plane that has a
> radiator
> > > out in front and an inline Ford 4-cylinder driving the prop!
> > >
> > > Oscar Zuniga
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Message 22
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"Fishnet" <Fishnet@topica.com>
| Subject: | my friend put me with the pics of the guys that fly at |
our field
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
Check it out!
http://gtalexander.home.att.net/
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
Message 23
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"Fishnet" <Fishnet@topica.com>
| Subject: | data on the fabric punch test |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
Anyone know the specs on the fabric punch test for 1.7 oz. fabric?
Just in case my inspector for my repairman's cert asks.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
DJ,
No , I think this is overall. He's not new to Corvairs, been working with
them for years. I'm not sure of the numbers, I can ask him next time I see
him.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> 50-60 hp at normal prop RPM's?? I assume you mean cruise??
>
> ....even at cruise I KNOW the 'vair gives more than 60hp.
>
> DJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans"
> <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
> >
> > Sorry that I haven't followed this conversation completely, cause I just
> > walked in the door 2 hours ago from 5 days away.
> > This debate comes along every year or so, and just wanted to throw in my
> two
> > cents.
> > If you look at sites estimating HP of certain engines, what they tell
you
> is
> > that it's just physics, you can only get so much power out of a certain
> > displacement engine, give or take, without supercharging, at a certain
> RPM.
> > period. That's it.
> > My Mentor, who has been in the business for alot of years, is very much
> > against these claims of high HP from a Corvair. He has built a few gear
> > reduced Corvair engines, that put out more HP ( and wanted to gear them
> more
> > for more HP)
> > His estimate of output for a nongeared Corvair is , I believe, around 50
> to
> > 60 HP at normal prop. rpm. Think he said that they are very smooth
which
> > gives you the feeling that it is more powerful.
> > walt
> > PS My a-65 piet climbs at 700 FPM, and I'm still smiling
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush"
> <dilatush@amigo.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> > > <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > > ++++++++++++++++++++
> > > Oscar,
> > >
> > > I don't mean that :YOU have made these claims for horsepower and
> > > performance, I know that these are the figures that Wynne comes up
with.
> > To
> > > me, they just don't check out. I have heard that he is running direct
> > drive
> > > at a fairly high rpm, but where do the curves show the horsepower at
> THIS
> > > rpm, not at the top of the curve? I't just that his quoted
performance
> > and
> > > claimed horsepower numbers don't add up. I for one, would like to see
> the
> > > actual curves published on his web site, not just his claims.
> > >
> > > I have always felt that a Corvair engine is a fine engine and very
> suited
> > to
> > > use in a airplane, and I would certainly not hesitate to use one. But
I
> > > don't believe that one in his enthusiasm for the engine should
overrate
> > it's
> > > output at the ACTUAL RPM'S that are used to turn a prop in a plane.
I
> > > would worry that someone not too knowlegable would attempt to put an
> > > over-rated Covair into an air frame that is designed for, say a 100 hp
> > > Lycoming and then find that the performance is disappointing .
> Probably
> > > would spend the rest of his days bad mouthing auto conversions!
> > >
> > > As for your suggestion that I would challenge anyone to a climb
contest,
> I
> > > would not pit my 111 hp engine against a 145 hp engine. There is no
> > > question that the 145 hp engine would win! Both engines are working
at
> > > their peak power with props designed for the engine at that rpm and
> > properly
> > > matched to the airframe. And it is actual, not guessed at, horsepower
> > that
> > > will determine the rate of climb. But put my plane against a CLAIMED
> 110
> > hp
> > > Corvair Pietenpol and I'll be willing to bet the farm that my plane
> would
> > > win!
> > >
> > > John
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > John writes:
> > > >
> > > > >we would predict a rate of climb of 1056 fpm!
> > > > >Yet he gets only max rate of climb of 700 fpm and sometimes less
> > > > >This might indicate that his horsepower ratings are somewhat
> > > > >optimistic.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I didn't want to over-inflate the claims that William makes,
but
> > > they
> > > > are there for the world to see on his website at
> > > http://www.flycorvair.com.
> > > > Based on the actual, measured static RPM and actual, measured thrust
> > that
> > > > William's plane was getting, it developed more like 110 HP. The
point
> > > was,
> > > > as Mike Cuy explained, you need to know your plane's limitations
based
> > on
> > > > what engine you have bolted to the firewall because there are things
> you
> > > > just can't do with 65 or less horsepower up there. I will also
point
> > out
> > > > that the climb rates that William stated were with passengers, in
the
> > busy
> > > > traffic pattern at SNF. You really don't want to be climbing out at
> > best
> > > > climb in traffic or with passengers if there aren't any obstacles to
> > > clear,
> > > > due to reduced visibility over the nose and speeds nearer to stall.
> > Given
> > > > that the plane was not being operated at best climb, the stated
climbs
> > > were
> > > > pretty good. William quoted some climb numbers higher than this to
me
> > but
> > > I
> > > > didn't use them in my post because the point was made without them.
> > > >
> > > > To the rest of the folks on this list, be aware that John is running
a
> > > > turbocharged Subaru with a redrive, so his Piet will have truly
> stellar
> > > > climb performance and if I were him I would challenge that
> > Warner-powered
> > > > Piet to a climb contest! And if I may again state my innermost
> feelings
> > > > about the quintessential Piet image, it is of a plane that has a
> > radiator
> > > > out in front and an inline Ford 4-cylinder driving the prop!
> > > >
> > > > Oscar Zuniga
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Message 25
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kevin Holcomb" <ksholcomb@mindspring.com>
The Pietenpol airfoil as several others mentioned is something that
Pietenpol came up with himself. I was curious how it compared to other
airfoils so I worked up a set of coordinates based on the published plans
(and smoothed, as shown in the plans leaves a bit to be desired
mathematically as measurements closer than 1/32 for plans are not very
practical.) I then fed the coordinates to XFOIL, a rather nice CFD airfoil
analysis program with a neat viscous flow solver. Also, I had to guess a
bit at what the shape was at the leading edge as the plans are not very
detailed in that region. The data and coordinates are on the Air Camper
page within my personal web page which can be found at:
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/
It is a high lift/high drag airfoil as one would expect from a low and slow
flier.
Kevin Holcomb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <chrisw3@cox.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoil
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
> Does anyone know what Airfoil the Air camper uses and have the data for
> it?
>
> --
> Chris Woodhouse
> 3147 SW 127th St.
> Oklahoma City, OK 73170
> 405-691-5206 (home)
> chrisw@programmer.net
> N35 20.492'
> W97 34.342'
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: lift and weigh |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I have a automotive floor jack that slides under very easily.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift and weigh
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@megsinet.net>
>
> Here's one I thought I'd throw out to the group. What seems to be the best
> way to lift the plane when you
> are getting ready to weigh it. Since one side has the scale and the other
> has to be blocked to level, I was
> wondering what different techiques have been used to do this. I know this
> sounds dumb but as I was freezing
> my behind the other day in the hanger looking at the bird and thinking,
how
> should I do this.
> Thanks,, Carl
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: DXF Pietenpol Drawings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Dearinger" <mrclean@arkansas.net>
I'd like a copy.Thanks.Bill
- @juno.com
>
> I have a side view and a top view drawn in MS Paint (BMP file). It comes
in Ford, Lycoming, and Corvair engine versions as well as strait and spring
style gear. If you want the file (and I can find it on my hard drive) I
will send it to whomever wants it. It is not to scale but it looks very
close. No 3D drawing, sorry.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
Now we have some new numbers to play with. Lets see. a
2700cc 6cylinder engine that has the same horsepower
as 2180cc 4 cylinder VW.....hmmmm, I am really going
to have a tough time understanding that one. I know, I
talked to your mentor on the phone and he told me the
same thing. Of course, I didn't waste a lot of time
believing that one.
Del
--- walter evans <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans"
> <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
>
> DJ,
> No , I think this is overall. He's not new to
> Corvairs, been working with
> them for years. I'm not sure of the numbers, I can
> ask him next time I see
> him.
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> > 50-60 hp at normal prop RPM's?? I assume you mean
> cruise??
> >
> > ....even at cruise I KNOW the 'vair gives more
> than 60hp.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter
> evans"
> > <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
> > >
> > > Sorry that I haven't followed this conversation
> completely, cause I just
> > > walked in the door 2 hours ago from 5 days away.
> > > This debate comes along every year or so, and
> just wanted to throw in my
> > two
> > > cents.
> > > If you look at sites estimating HP of certain
> engines, what they tell
> you
> > is
> > > that it's just physics, you can only get so much
> power out of a certain
> > > displacement engine, give or take, without
> supercharging, at a certain
> > RPM.
> > > period. That's it.
> > > My Mentor, who has been in the business for alot
> of years, is very much
> > > against these claims of high HP from a Corvair.
> He has built a few gear
> > > reduced Corvair engines, that put out more HP (
> and wanted to gear them
> > more
> > > for more HP)
> > > His estimate of output for a nongeared Corvair
> is , I believe, around 50
> > to
> > > 60 HP at normal prop. rpm. Think he said that
> they are very smooth
> which
> > > gives you the feeling that it is more powerful.
> > > walt
> > > PS My a-65 piet climbs at 700 FPM, and I'm still
> smiling
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John
> Dilatush"
> > <dilatush@amigo.net>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 65HP climb rate
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar
> Zuniga"
> > > > <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > > > ++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > Oscar,
> > > >
> > > > I don't mean that :YOU have made these claims
> for horsepower and
> > > > performance, I know that these are the figures
> that Wynne comes up
> with.
> > > To
> > > > me, they just don't check out. I have heard
> that he is running direct
> > > drive
> > > > at a fairly high rpm, but where do the curves
> show the horsepower at
> > THIS
> > > > rpm, not at the top of the curve? I't just
> that his quoted
> performance
> > > and
> > > > claimed horsepower numbers don't add up. I
> for one, would like to see
> > the
> > > > actual curves published on his web site, not
> just his claims.
> > > >
> > > > I have always felt that a Corvair engine is a
> fine engine and very
> > suited
> > > to
> > > > use in a airplane, and I would certainly not
> hesitate to use one. But
> I
> > > > don't believe that one in his enthusiasm for
> the engine should
> overrate
> > > it's
> > > > output at the ACTUAL RPM'S that are used to
> turn a prop in a plane.
> I
> > > > would worry that someone not too knowlegable
> would attempt to put an
> > > > over-rated Covair into an air frame that is
> designed for, say a 100 hp
> > > > Lycoming and then find that the performance
> is disappointing .
> > Probably
> > > > would spend the rest of his days bad mouthing
> auto conversions!
> > > >
> > > > As for your suggestion that I would challenge
> anyone to a climb
> contest,
> > I
> > > > would not pit my 111 hp engine against a 145
> hp engine. There is no
> > > > question that the 145 hp engine would win!
> Both engines are working
> at
> > > > their peak power with props designed for the
> engine at that rpm and
> > > properly
> > > > matched to the airframe. And it is actual,
> not guessed at, horsepower
> > > that
> > > > will determine the rate of climb. But put my
> plane against a CLAIMED
> > 110
> > > hp
> > > > Corvair Pietenpol and I'll be willing to bet
> the farm that my plane
> > would
> > > > win!
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > John writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > >we would predict a rate of climb of 1056
> fpm!
> > > > > >Yet he gets only max rate of climb of 700
> fpm and sometimes less
> > > > > >This might indicate that his horsepower
> ratings are somewhat
> > > > > >optimistic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I didn't want to over-inflate the
> claims that William makes,
> but
> > > > they
> > > > > are there for the world to see on his
> website at
> > > > http://www.flycorvair.com.
> > > > > Based on the actual, measured static RPM and
> actual, measured thrust
> > > that
> > > > > William's plane was getting, it developed
> more like 110 HP. The
> point
> > > > was,
> > > > > as Mike Cuy explained, you need to know your
> plane's limitations
> based
> > > on
> > > > > what engine you have bolted to the firewall
> because there are things
> > you
> > > > > just can't do with 65 or less horsepower up
> there.
=== message truncated ===
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Dearinger" <mrclean@arkansas.net>
For what it is worth a late (1964 and newer 164") Corvair engine with .060
oversize cylinders has approx. the same cubic inches as a Continental A-65,
A-75 and A-80(170").The A-65 is rated at 2300 rpm and the A-80 at 2700 rpm.
If the Corvair is no more efficient than the antique Continental it should
have approx 95 hp at 3100. We flew our plane for 160 hours with a Corvair
with a stock cam and then installed a C90-8 with 0-200 internals.The cont
was lighter and had more torque and a longer prop and it would climb better
but wouldn't go any faster and it used more fuel. Bill
> His estimate of output for a nongeared Corvair is , I believe, around 50
to
> 60 HP at normal prop. rpm. Think he said that they are very smooth which
> gives you the feeling that it is more powerful.
> walt
> PS My a-65 piet climbs at 700 FPM, and I'm still smiling
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: lift and weigh |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" <rambog@erols.com>
I don't think I would try to do it with only one scale.
Gene Rambo
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: my friend put me with the pics of the guys that fly |
at our field
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" <rambog@erols.com>
Walt,
Is that the second bounce, or . . . . . ?
Gene
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 65HP climb rate |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 9:47 PM -0500 12/09/02, William Dearinger wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Dearinger"
><mrclean@arkansas.net>
>
> For what it is worth a late (1964 and newer 164") Corvair engine with .060
>oversize cylinders has approx. the same cubic inches as a Continental A-65,
>A-75 and A-80(170").The A-65 is rated at 2300 rpm and the A-80 at 2700 rpm.
>If the Corvair is no more efficient than the antique Continental it should
>have approx 95 hp at 3100. We flew our plane for 160 hours with a Corvair
>with a stock cam and then installed a C90-8 with 0-200 internals.The cont
>was lighter and had more torque and a longer prop and it would climb better
>but wouldn't go any faster and it used more fuel. Bill
Gang,
I missed something somewhere back at the beginning of this whole
conversation, but William told me that his Pietenpol climbed at 1000fpm at
sea level - or as close as Daytona is to sea level, anyway :). Also, It's
always been my understanding that he claims 100hp as the maximum,
non-turbo'd hp for the engine, not 110hp.
Now, how does his climb number fit with all the debate about hp?
Sure doesn't sound like a 50hp engine to me.
With all due respect Walt, I'm not sure your mentor is totally up on how to
get good power out of the Corvair. William goes into great detail about the
importance of cam design and timing & why the OT-10 cam and correct advance
are the keys to the performance he gets out of the engine. He also has a
very good explanation of why reduction gearing is actually a losing
proposition for getting more hp out of it. It's all in the new manual.
BTW Oscar, thanks for forwarding Wm's comments about his center section
fuel tank. I liked the idea very much when he showed it to me & then I had
reservations after his crash. If you find out more about the self-closing
valves he now recommends, I'd like to hear about it.
Regards,
Kip Gardner
(spent this past weekend unsucessfully trying to lower the deer population
at Barber Airport)
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
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