Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 12/17/02


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:56 AM - Re: PIET: Buying wood (Jack Phillips)
     2. 04:59 AM - Fuel Tank Mold (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     3. 05:59 AM - Fueling safety (Seibert Bob-r18643)
     4. 06:05 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Mold (Doyle Combs)
     5. 07:33 AM - Re: refueling from cans ()
     6. 08:32 AM - Re: refueling from cans (del magsam)
     7. 10:50 AM - refueling from cans (Oscar Zuniga)
     8. 10:58 AM - buying wood (Oscar Zuniga)
     9. 12:14 PM - Fw: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up) (walter evans)
    10. 12:33 PM - Re: Fw: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up) (John_Duprey@vmed.org)
    11. 01:21 PM - Re: buying wood (Isablcorky@aol.com)
    12. 03:26 PM - Re: refueling from cans (Caroll & Mara Holmstrom)
    13. 07:23 PM - Re: Fw: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up) (Dmott9@aol.com)
    14. 07:47 PM - Re: refueling from cans (Ted Brousseau)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:56:56 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
    Subject: PIET: Buying wood
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net> Good point, Walt. This is where Wicks Aircraft Supply came from. Wicks has been a manufacturer or pipe organs for years before they decided to get into the aircraft supply business. I got my spars from Wicks and they are beautiful. Wicks still builds nice pipe organs. Jack --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> Just a tidbit on wood. Seems that one big industry for aircraft grade spruce was to make organ pipes for the old pipe organs of the old churches. remember when I was a teen, my neighbor was a contractor for a large construction firm. and he showed me a pile of wood in his basement that came from an old pipe organ that they had dismantled. Didn't know it at the time, but what I saw could have made many Piets. Wonder where that wood is now??? I guess if kept dry, the spruce should be ok? anybody know? Guess my point is,,,don't be afraid to look around, and ask questions, you never know what might turn up. walt


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:59:33 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Fuel Tank Mold
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com I just finished making the mold for the front tank, to make the cowl tank out of fiberglass. Short fuse, Continental engine. It took me alot of time to design & build it to use every nook & cranny up there to put fuel in. It's all waxed up, ready for the glass. I still don't know how well it will work, though, but so far it looks promising. The bottom is sloped forward, so when the plane is in the static laiden position (tail on the ground) any drops of water will drain out of the tank, into the gascolator. No fuel lines or fittings are in the front cockpit. I installed a fitting on the top, at about 10 O'Clock position (viewed from the cockpit), to fill it from the wing tank, so there will be some fuel management with this set up. Boink !! Idea: What if we set up some kind of info base, where those of us that have built jigs, and molds, would donate these items for all to use. Some kind of tracking system would have to be employed to know who has what. We could set up something in the Matronics Arcive, with a specific 'Subject Line' to keep track of who has what. It would certainly save any newbee's alot of time. I'm going to include instructions, and material list, written on one of the plywood sides, if anyone is interested. User pays shipping cost. Chuck Gantzer Wichita, KS


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:59:08 AM PST US
    From: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
    Subject: Fueling safety
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com> I need to add my small amount of knowledge to the conversation. I have been hauling auto fuel for my RV-6 for 10 years now and also work in the electronics industry where electrostatic discharge is dealt with on a daily basis. The main culprit with the rise in accidents is low humidity. Refueling on a humid muggy morning is relatively safe, on a dry day it is much more dangerous. Wintertime temperature extremes also cause humidity extremes. If you use plastic cans (who doesn't?), put them on the ground to fill them. This doesn't guarantee grounding but its probably the best we can normally do. Touch them with your grounded hand or to a grounded piece of metal BEFORE putting the gas nozzle in the opening. When you get to the airport, the gas containers will probably have a charge built back up in them again. That gas has been sloshing around against the plastic all the way from the gas station. This definitely will create a charge even if there was not one in existence when they were filled. My personal experience is that the highest charge is at this point in the refueling cycle. Ground the aircraft tank. Use an alligator clip and ground the plastic can with a wire. All this is a lot of bother but probably many of us know of people in our home town who have been maimed and killed by not treating gasoline with respect. Regards, Bob Seibert Piet "almost ready" to cover in Taylor, TX.


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:05:38 AM PST US
    From: "Doyle Combs" <dcombs@ltex.net>
    Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Mold
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle Combs" <dcombs@ltex.net> I would certainly be interested in the sharing of the mold. Doyle Combs Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd@aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Tank Mold > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > I just finished making the mold for the front tank, to make the cowl tank out > of fiberglass. Short fuse, Continental engine. It took me alot of time to > design & build it to use every nook & cranny up there to put fuel in. It's > all waxed up, ready for the glass. I still don't know how well it will work, > though, but so far it looks promising. The bottom is sloped forward, so when > the plane is in the static laiden position (tail on the ground) any drops of > water will drain out of the tank, into the gascolator. No fuel lines or > fittings are in the front cockpit. I installed a fitting on the top, at > about 10 O'Clock position (viewed from the cockpit), to fill it from the wing > tank, so there will be some fuel management with this set up. > > Boink !! Idea: What if we set up some kind of info base, where those of us > that have built jigs, and molds, would donate these items for all to use. > Some kind of tracking system would have to be employed to know who has what. > We could set up something in the Matronics Arcive, with a specific 'Subject > Line' to keep track of who has what. It would certainly save any newbee's > alot of time. I'm going to include instructions, and material list, written > on one of the plywood sides, if anyone is interested. User pays shipping > cost. > > Chuck Gantzer > Wichita, KS > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:33:05 AM PST US
    Subject: refueling from cans
    From: "" <genet@iwon.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" <genet@iwon.com> do not archive A while back my work took me into several refineries and I found a report from shell oil company alerting employees to the dangers of using cell phones around gasoline. Shell has had three cases of customers badly burned while refueling automobiles with cell phones on their persons. The newer type cellphones idel at a low power state until they receive a call and then come up to full power. On some phones this involves a small relay which causes enough of a spark to ignight fumes as they leave the tank being filled. I know this isen't likely to happen to one of us but it does put things into perspective regards fuel saifty Gene in Ferguson Can a Web portal forever change your life? Win up to $25 Million on iWon - click here!


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:32:09 AM PST US
    From: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
    Subject: refueling from cans
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com> Shell has had three cases of customers > badly burned while refueling automobiles with cell > phones on their persons. 3 cases of customers? is that like 3 cases of oil? :>) Del ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com"


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:50:01 AM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: refueling from cans
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Gary writes- >I will like to know what happened and/or how to prevent this from >happening. Static electricity builds up as the fuel flows through the hose. The charge builds up on the plastic surfaces of the gas can or the truck bed liner, then discharges across an air gap when there is a great enough charge built up. When the air is relatively damp or moist, the charge dissipates through the air more readily than when the air is dry (like in Phoenix, DJ!) Placing the gas cans on the ground gives the static a more ready path to ground, assuming that it's concrete, earth, metal, or something like that. Touching the truck and the metal pump handle with your hand also dissipates built-up charge through your body, which dissipates the charge better than the sharp electrical gap created by the fuel nozzle and the fuel can. >Once I read about it in one list some years ago, but was not shure if >it was true... is dificult to believe. I wouldn't think it would be a problem in more humid climates (like Belize, where the Fisherman lurks) but up here we get some pretty good static when it gets cool and dry. I take out my keys whenever I slide across the truck seat to get out, and let the spark jump the end of my key rather than my finger. >Is a first hand info you got? The San Antonio Express-News. The most reliable source on the planet ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:58:39 AM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: buying wood
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Walt writes: >don't be afraid to look around, and ask questions, you never know what >might turn up. When searching for wood for my Flying Squirrel's spars, I asked around at the lumber yards for straight, clear fir. Everybody had it in varying quantities and dimensions, but at a price and not the full lengths I wished I had. Then a friend mentioned to me that there was a place that specialized in recycling building materials. The old barns and buildings around town were usually constructed with full-dimension lumber and timbers, and when they get ready to tear down an old building you would be amazed at the heft and condition of these old pieces. I found some fir beams and had the mill rough-saw them to my specs for length and thickness, and when I get ready to do final shaping I'll run them through a planer and select my spars from between the nail holes and minor flaws. I guess my point is, don't overlook the possibility of finding some good wood in an old structure that is being demolished, or in a "used lumber" place (as long as it's been kept dry and insect-free). Not likely you'll find spruce there (unless you're in the Pacific NW), but you may be surprised. Red fir, Douglas fir, hemlock, and other good wood is out there. I paid $75 for the material for 4 spars plus much more, rough-sawn to my specs. It is true that Doug fir has a smell of its own (I like it), and that it splinters easier than other woods, but if you learn on fir you'll have no problem with other building woods. And you'll have to learn to grade wood and detect flaws and defects, but isn't that what this homebuilding is all about anyway? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:14:52 PM PST US
    From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
    "piet discussion" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
    Subject: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up)
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> Had some time today, so called my FAA man for the repairman cert with my new building log and all the rest. Turns out he said he was on a different assignment, and to just come down and ask for the duty inspector. and he would take care of me. Stopped in and met the new fellow. Again very nice. We went into the conference room and I laid out all the stuff. He went right to the pictures and looked. Then asked me if I built at least 51%. After I told him that I did 100%, He went right to filling out the paperwork. Got my temporary cert in about an hour. walt now for the big PS,,,,didn't want to see my building log, actually never even mentioned it!!! Go figure. One of those bittersweet times of your life. Ain't life funny? ----- Original Message ----- From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> > > Thanks to all who replied, > I guess it is the idea that I have a log, and he told me in so many words to > go and make one. Seemed more interested in building hours. Again he admits > that he had not done one these before. Guess that's how it is in Gov't. > This way when his superior asks him if he saw a building log, he can say > yes. Said it didn't have to be fancy. > Flying to Fl. to see Mom tomorrow, and I hate how the two flights mean > sitting for hours in the two different airports waiting for interconnecting > flights. This way I'll take my notes, My new spiral bound "log to be" and > start making four years worth of entries. Come Monday P.M. on the rebound, > I'll have a log. > Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Funny that I'll have about 10 times > the hours in the log as getting it inspected by the DAR > walt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > > > Walt---My inspector here in Cleveland did not ask for a building log but I > > did provide him with > > tons of photos taken during construction, all my invoices from Wicks, > > Dillsburg, ASS, and such. > > That was as Jack P. and Webster's said "a record of perfomance". And it > > varies from inspector to > > inspector I'm sure. My guy simply got me the proper form, send me over > > to the FSDO office and I > > filled it out. The guy there mailed it to OKC and about a month later I > > got my repairman's ticket in the mail > > at home. > > > > I forwarded your e-mail Walt to my inspector in Cleve. here this AM to get > > his advice. Will forward that to > > the list when he replies. You should not have to mess around with > > creating an after-the-fact log since you have > > so many legitimate documents that are dated and show progress to even a > 3rd > > grader. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:33:48 PM PST US
    From: John_Duprey@vmed.org
    Subject: Re: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up)
    12/17/2002 03:33:27 PM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John_Duprey@vmed.org Hey Walt: Look at it this way you just took a course in Creative Writing courtesy of the Federal Government :-) At least you got your certificate... John Duprey "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>@matronics.com on 12/17/2002 03:12:10 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> cc: Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> Had some time today, so called my FAA man for the repairman cert with my new building log and all the rest. Turns out he said he was on a different assignment, and to just come down and ask for the duty inspector. and he would take care of me. Stopped in and met the new fellow. Again very nice. We went into the conference room and I laid out all the stuff. He went right to the pictures and looked. Then asked me if I built at least 51%. After I told him that I did 100%, He went right to filling out the paperwork. Got my temporary cert in about an hour. walt now for the big PS,,,,didn't want to see my building log, actually never even mentioned it!!! Go figure. One of those bittersweet times of your life. Ain't life funny? ----- Original Message ----- From: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net> > > Thanks to all who replied, > I guess it is the idea that I have a log, and he told me in so many words to > go and make one. Seemed more interested in building hours. Again he admits > that he had not done one these before. Guess that's how it is in Gov't. > This way when his superior asks him if he saw a building log, he can say > yes. Said it didn't have to be fancy. > Flying to Fl. to see Mom tomorrow, and I hate how the two flights mean > sitting for hours in the two different airports waiting for interconnecting > flights. This way I'll take my notes, My new spiral bound "log to be" and > start making four years worth of entries. Come Monday P.M. on the rebound, > I'll have a log. > Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Funny that I'll have about 10 times > the hours in the log as getting it inspected by the DAR > walt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > > > Walt---My inspector here in Cleveland did not ask for a building log but I > > did provide him with > > tons of photos taken during construction, all my invoices from Wicks, > > Dillsburg, ASS, and such. > > That was as Jack P. and Webster's said "a record of perfomance". And it > > varies from inspector to > > inspector I'm sure. My guy simply got me the proper form, send me over > > to the FSDO office and I > > filled it out. The guy there mailed it to OKC and about a month later I > > got my repairman's ticket in the mail > > at home. > > > > I forwarded your e-mail Walt to my inspector in Cleve. here this AM to get > > his advice. Will forward that to > > the list when he replies. You should not have to mess around with > > creating an after-the-fact log since you have > > so many legitimate documents that are dated and show progress to even a > 3rd > > grader. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:21:02 PM PST US
    From: Isablcorky@aol.com
    Subject: Re: buying wood
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Oscar and the other Pieters looking for good wood, First, I'm not a wood salesman but I will toot my horn for Edensaw Woods Ltd. I bought 128 bd ft, 8 pcs 2x6x16ft rough sawn KD VG w/ 18 to 24 gpi, no pitch pockets or knots, Douglas Fir. Beautiful wood, straight and light and strong. It dresses out perfect. I paid $4.65 bd ft plus freight from Puget Sound to Shreveport, about $140. For what I got it was more than a bargain. He also has sitka spruce at I don't know the price. Edensaw Woods Ltd 211 Seton rd Port Townsend, Wa 98368 800 745 3336 <A HREF="www.edensaw.com">www.edensaw.com Ask for Jim (Kiwi) Ferris For economy and strength try #1 Southern Pine for your cap strips. Buy 2x4s and rip


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:26:52 PM PST US
    From: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom" <caroll@mninter.net>
    Subject: Re: refueling from cans
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom" <caroll@mninter.net> The problem with static charges causing a fire has been dealt with by the Army many years ago. They have to solider filling up the truck connect a ground strap (conductive cable to dissipate static) from the truck to earth-n-ground or the can if a can is being used before contact is made. At least they did when I was in the service. Although less likely a static charge can be generated in humid climates depending the type of clothing and shoes the person is wearing. I don't know why the oil industry has not required something like that a ground strap at a gas station. Probably because of the cost.


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:23:06 PM PST US
    From: Dmott9@aol.com
    Subject: Re: I'm a little bugged ( ironic follow-up)
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dmott9@aol.com In a message dated 12/17/02 3:15:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, wbeevans@worldnet.att.net writes: > now for the big PS,,,,didn't want to see my building log, actually never > even mentioned it!!! Go figure. > One of those bittersweet times of your life. Ain't life funny? ..and Walt, if you had not spent all the time in preparing that building log, he would have wanted to see it. Its the fact that you had all the right documentation that HE was looking for at the time. This appears to be totally random, whether they want to see the building log and/or the photo log. Life is all about these "quirks" ain't it ?


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:47:45 PM PST US
    From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
    Subject: Re: refueling from cans
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net> I believe the hose and nozzle is grounded and it grounds the car when slid into the opening. Ted Brousseau I knew this humid place was good for something Naples, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom" <caroll@mninter.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom" <caroll@mninter.net> > > The problem with static charges causing a fire has been dealt with by the > Army many years ago. They have to solider filling up the truck connect a > ground strap (conductive cable to dissipate static) from the truck to > earth-n-ground or the can if a can is being used before contact is made. At > least they did when I was in the service. > Although less likely a static charge can be generated in humid climates > depending the type of clothing and shoes the person is wearing. > I don't know why the oil industry has not required something like that a > ground strap at a gas station. Probably because of the cost. > >




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