Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:09 AM - Re: Landing gear reinforcement straps (clif)
2. 06:53 AM - (Michael D Cuy)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Bell crank location (Sam Marinucci)
4. 08:31 AM - Re: Bell crank location (Isablcorky@aol.com)
5. 08:43 AM - Worthy item for To Fly! (Christian Bobka)
6. 08:43 AM - Email number one: Flitzer storyline (Christian Bobka)
7. 08:44 AM - email number 3: Articles on the Flitzer (Christian Bobka)
8. 08:44 AM - email number 2: Flitzer Article PFA Magazine Jan/Feb 2003 (Christian Bobka)
9. 08:44 AM - emial number 4: Flitzer email (Christian Bobka)
10. 08:44 AM - email number 6: [Flitzer-Builders] Re: I am new (Christian Bobka)
11. 08:44 AM - email number 5: Gobwing (Christian Bobka)
12. 08:58 AM - Re: Landing gear reinforcement straps (Hubbard, Eugene)
13. 09:01 AM - Flitzer attachments (Christian Bobka)
14. 09:22 AM - mike impedance (Wayne McIntosh)
15. 10:51 AM - Re: mike impedance (Gary Gower)
16. 01:26 PM - Re: mike impedance (The Huizenga's)
17. 02:00 PM - FW: Worthy item for To Fly! (Christian Bobka)
18. 03:45 PM - Re: mike impedance (Cy Galley)
19. 06:04 PM - Re: I'm a little bugged (Alex Sloan)
20. 07:09 PM - Re: mike impedance (Wayne McIntosh)
21. 09:49 PM - Re: Landing gear reinforcement straps (clif)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear reinforcement straps |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
I've added a chart of wing loads on
a wing from the center to the tip in my
picture file on www.mykitplane.com
It's #21-second page-Clif Dawson's pics.
It's a generic chart using percent of distance
out from the center related to the percent of
total span load. In other words, the innermost
20% of the wing area handles the load
percentage listed in the boxs below it. each
% area has three boxes below it representing
three different aspect ratios. The top line,
AR=6, is the one to use for the piet wing.
You can see from this that the outer area of
the wing carries considerably less load than
the inner. This means that the cabane struts
are absolutely necessary!
Even on a one piece wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@charter.net>
>
> Gene,
>
> The mechanical engineers say here on the piet list that the one piece wing
> really does not need the cabanes at all except to stabilize the wing when
> the spars are in compression much like the jury struts stablize the wing
> struts. The wing area outboard of the wing struts is equal to the area
> inboard so the up lift outboard causes the inboard to deflect down but
this
> is countered by the inboard lift force up which is countered by....well
you
> know the rest.
>
> Look at the wing as a column. If you pull G's, then the straps are trying
> to move closer to the cabane/wing joint, putting the fuselage sides and
the
> cabanes in compression. Obviously with the increased G's, the wing is
> lifting that much harder and the fuselage weight is pulling down away from
> the cabane/wing joint. The wing strut attach points at the wing are
trying
> to move toward one another putting the wing spars between the wing strut
> attach fittings, wing to wing, in compression. The wing section is fairly
> thin and the 20:1 max slenderness ratio rule comes into play. The spars
> become axially loaded columns with a deflection.
>
> Think of your leg in a cast vs. having a flexible knee joint. A column
with
> a pinned joint half way along its length has to behave substantially
> different from a solid column with no joint, especially when it is being
> deflected.
>
> The pinned joint on the multiple piece wing changes things, right?
>
> Amateur engineer still learning,
>
> chris bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hubbard,
> Eugene
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
>
> Chris,
>
> I don't see that the one-piece wing can possibly be stiff enough to affect
> the cabane and lift strut loading ratios. My reasoning is that I have no
> doubt that I could, with hand pressure, flex the one-piece wing with the
> cabane struts removed such that the distance between atatch points changes
> measurably. This is really a crude way of establishing a Young's modulus
of
> maybe a few hundred to a thousand pounds per inch of displacement.
> Similarly, I cannot imagine, under any circumstances, changing the length
of
> the cabane struts in a similar way. This strongly suggests that any force
> on the cabane attach points will be taken up by the struts long before the
> stiffness of the wing itself becomes a factor, and that attach point
> stresses should be nearly identical between one and three-piece wings.
>
> I totally agree with your other comments though, that the bottom of the
> fuselage is always in tension, and that force on the cabanes, whether
> tension or compression, is minimal.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
>
> _
>
>
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
At 09:36 PM 12/21/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril"
><horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
>Mike
>Isn't there a small referance to this dream in your video?
>Dick
Dick---actually I did a lot of taxiing with Karen in the front seat and
that scene does show that she got in and rode to the
north end of the runway with me, then got out. BUT......at about the 15
hour mark I had that dream and actually did take her
for a ride:)))
Mike C.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Bell crank location |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sam Marinucci" <srmjem@ezol.com>
>Anyone know of a reason why the elevator bell crank couldn't be located on
>the front of the upright instead of the rear?
When I was in New Jersey a few years ago I stopped in on Jim Malley and
noticed that the elevator bellcrank is mounted on the front of the upright
on his award winning Piet.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bell crank location |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Just a little thought about the bell crank location. Wouldn't matter, front
or rear except, the cables to the elevator horns MIGHT want to travel too
close to a structure member. One could eliminate this tragedy by completing
the tail feathers and mock them up BEFORE decidng on the crank location.
Remeber, you build these things backwards. Think the completed plane and
build to that.
Corky in La waiting for Santa
Message 5
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Worthy item for To Fly! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Doc,
A few issues ago in ToFly!, it was discussed that an agreement was made with
the PFA when somebody, like maybe Chuck Parnall (?), went to England so that
SAA could use articles form their monthly publication.
I just received a copy of an article on the Flitzer series of airplanes. It
was sent to me by Lynn Williams, its designer. The design has been getting
quite a bit of attention in Europe. A chat group is up and running at
Flitzer-Builders@yahoogroups.com . A plans ditributor has been established
in Ontario. His name is Gary Steadman and his email is
gsteadman@rpcomposites.com . A website exists for the aircraft at
www.Flitzer-Aero.com . A wood kit is available and laser cut metal parts are
or are nearly available. And aircraft of this design ARE FLYING!
Construction is identical to that of the Pietenpol, an SAA favorite. The
power is VW and other engines.
The appeal is there. Greg Cardinal and I are going nuts over it. It was
briefly coverd in a Kitplanes article on the Cranford Rally about 4 years
ago. Otherwise, not much is heard about it.
The design has its roots in a novel by Lynn Williams that has never been
published. Email number one will list the story line of the novel which may
be a good intro for the aircraft. Emails number two through six include a
copy of the PFA article and other interesting facts about the plans, engine
choices, etc. .
I contend that Lynn Williams be contacted at flitzer@btopenworld.com and
permission be sought to publish the article by Tony Morris in To Fly! along
with some other intro material that can be gleaned from these emails.
chris
Message 6
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
| Subject: | Email number one: Flitzer storyline |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Fw: Happy Christmas
Hi Chris,
You are quite right!
The Flitzer's putative German heritage is a conundrum which I have invented
to mystify the public, but really it springs from the stillborn novel, which
lurks in my bottom drawer.
The Staaken Z-1 Flitzer D692, is the unwitting pawn, the
Luftschiffsparasitapparat suspended beneath the cat's cradle of wires slung
from the catwalk extending from the gondola of the old Schutte-Lanz airship,
the Danzig Freihaven. Operating from the Freeport of Danzig, in 1926, drop
tests are carried out beyond the reach of the Inter-Allied Military Control
Commission, which was supervising the rest of occupied Germany after WW1.
Flitzerlos! Air drop test, Vistula 1926, with Paul Strahle's Halberstadt
CL.IV camera ship in attendance.
The secret intent is to extend the reconnaissance range of the airship,
together with that of its mooring and supply ship, the icebraker 'Eisbar'.
The expedition of the Arktisch Vermessungs Abteilung (Arctic Survey Unit)
under the aegis of the Anstalt fur Geo-Wissenschaftlich Forschung
(Establishment for Geo-Scientific Research) mission is to search for a
reported landmass in the Greenland Sea, (mentioned in the ship's logs of
old, long lost Nantucket whalers) and to journey north of Jan Mayan Land, to
claim a tiny piece of territory for the Weimar Republic, after all of the
overseas possessions had been confiscated under the terms of the
Versaillesdiktat, after 1919.
The plan is to use the rock for the legitimate refuelling of trans-Atlantic
airmail seaplanes, but the deeper plan is to build a U-boat base there to
control the North Atlantic, for a future war. However, it is all a smoke
screen! and the real treasure is Romanoff gold and a $100,000,000 fortune in
gold bullion, hijacked from a soviet train, after it had been commandeered
in secret by Lenin. That train had been bound for Vladivostock in the
aftermath of revolution, but the traincrew was murdered, and the treasure
was hidden in the wastes of Siberia. Others now want to use it for the
purposes of funding re-armament, the de-stabilisation of buffer territories,
and the destruction of Bolshevism.......
However, it is also the story of betrayal, espionage, and bitter
post-revolutionary Russian genocide of minority native populations, against
the backdrop of massed slavery on the hydro-electric and White Sea 5-Year
grand projects to industrialise the agrarian Soviet economy.
Ultimately, on the brink of WW2, there is an audacious attempt to
assassinate Hitler at his Bavarian mountain retreat at Berchtesgaden, using
De Havilland DH 88 Comet racers, camouflaged to look like Grigorovitch DG55s
(Russian copies of the DH 88) in an attempt to kill the German dictator, or
at least force his hand against the East in the face of an apparent breach
of the Russo-German pact.
Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr, is one of the minds behind all of this,
with a view to bringing the Ukrainian Govt. in exile into the Axis alliance,
to provide dedicated fighting soldiers who'd fight like wolves alongside the
Wehrmacht to the gates of Moscow, and avenge the famine engineered by Stalin
in the '30s when 10,000 innocent people died, and to provide provisioning
for the troops through Ukranian grain production. And ultimately, a conduit
to the oil fields of the eastern regions, and world domination.
The Flitzer was designed and built partly to star in a movie about all this.
One day I will finish it, so you, and your wife, and hopefully many others
will read it, and who knows, one day even see the film.
Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to you, and I wish you a very happy and
successful New Year.
Lynn
---
Message 7
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
| Subject: | email number 3: Articles on the Flitzer |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Articles on the Flitzer
Hi Chris,
Don't despair! The future of the Flitzer range in N. America is in the
capable hands of Gary Steadman, whose advertising campaign is just starting,
with some results so far.
It is our aim to see these agile and evocative miniature classics flying in
every State of the Union, before we lay up our glue sticks! It isn't fair
that just a handful of people should have had all the fun in flying the only
three examples of the Flitzers to take to the air so far. It's so
exhilirating that every pilot who has dreamed of time-travelling in an
uncompromisingly 'vintage' biplane with an unequalled performance on basic
VW power, should be able to participate, and the plans and kits now
available are making that possible.
An increasing range of options are now becoming available, through the
expertise of Gary, who is a qulified stress engineer engaged in analysing
the various Flitzer sub-types, with good results so far.
I am expecting the latest UK Popular Flying magazine to arrive any time now,
which contains an article by Tony Morris on building and flying the Flitzer
Z-21A. It also covers the emerging range of sub-types in some detail, and I
will email a scanned edition of all this to you.
Best regards,
Lynn Williams
---
Message 8
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | email number 2: Flitzer Article PFA Magazine Jan/Feb |
2003
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Tucker; Christian Bobka; dwpullum1@swbell.net; e.parrein%tiscali.fr;
Eduardo; Gary Steadman; Gerard Killam; Haack, Maj Joseph; Herve Ribet;
Ionescu Constantin Serban; james.woolford@bt.com; JefRaskin@aol.com; Jim
Corbett; kwpullum1@netzero.com; Marcel; Patrick N Rogers; Patrick Rose; Rob
Kennedy; Robert Rogers; Roger John; Steve Smith; zebadiahs@hotmail.com
Subject: Flitzer Article PFA Magazine Jan/Feb 2003
Hi Flitzerfans,
Here's a copy of the recent PFA article on building and flying the Z-21A, by
Tony Morris.
A list of current projects and development types is also included.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all,
Lynn Williams
---
Message 9
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"Doc Mosher" <docshop@tds.net>, "Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | emial number 4: Flitzer email |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Flitzer email
Hi Christian,
I just sent you an email which you might be afraid to open as it has as the
subject the word 'Gobwing', together with an attachment!
It is quite safe and contains engine information, and a picture of the
gorgeous Rotec radial motor. The term 'Gobwing' applies to the Flitzer
Goblin wing area, and refers to an email forwarded to Gary Steadman, the N.
American framchisee, referring to this engine.
Just in case you thought it was some virus!
Best wishes,
Lynn Williams
Designer:Flitzer Series
---
Message 10
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: email number 6: [Flitzer-Builders] Re: I am new |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: gsteadmn <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>
[mailto:gsteadman@rpcomposites.com]
Subject: [Flitzer-Builders] Re: I am new
--- In Flitzer-Builders@yahoogroups.com, "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@c...> wrote:
> What are engine options other than the VW?
>
> Chris Bobka
> Minneapolis, MN
Chris;
There are quite a few engine options for the Flitzer Z-21, depending
upon your budget and your preferences. Just be careful to keep the
weight and balance within specs. With such a small airplane as the
Flitzer, even a few pounds can make quite a difference.
If you are looking in the direction of certified engines, then the
Jabiru 2200 or the Rotax 912 are about the right weight and size.
They are pricey, but maybe you can find a used or rebuilt at a good
price. Can't use a Continental or Lycoming; they are too heavy.
Several of the newer 2 cylinder 4-stroke experimenal engines on the
market are possible choices (Werner, HKS, Hexadyne, etc. ) Not many
have tried these in a biplane configuration, but if one is careful
they should work out well. Be careful that they are not too light!!!;
this can have as serious effect on weight and balance as being too
heavy. For this reason most of the two-stroke engines are not
suitable. Besides, their fuel consumption seriously inhibits the
range available.
If you want to save some money, there are several auto conversions
that are alternatives to the VW. The smaller Subaru conversion can be
made to work, but watch the weights carefully. Some people in Europe
are considering the BMW motorcycle conversion.
For the money, the VW conversion is really the best choice. Besides,
the Flitzer Z-21 was designed specifically around this engine, so you
know it will work the best. Consider a belt reduction drive on a VW
if you are looking for a big jump in horsepower for not a big jump in
weight or cost. Some of the larger bore VW's can reach 100 HP output
with a reduction drive.
There is probably more information and more parts available for the VW
conversion than any other suitable engine.
If you are a master machinist, you could consider building the smaller
HKS Radial Engine from plans. Imagine, your own radial engine biplane
;>).....
Happy hunting in the engine department.
Cheers;
Gary Steadman
Flitzer-Aero
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Flitzer-Builders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Message 11
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"Lynn Williams" <flitzer@btopenworld.com>,
"Gary Steadman" <gsteadman@rpcomposites.com>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>,
"Chris Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
| Subject: | email number 5: Gobwing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Fw: Gobwing
Hi Chris,
Regarding your enquiry, engine options apart from the VW would include,
among the older type engines currently being installed in Flitzers and their
sub-types, the Praga D75 and Salmson AD. 9, but these are not practical
alternatives due to their rarity and vintage status.
In Nova Scotia, a Z-1 Type S Stummelflitzer will be equipped with a geared
Subaru motor, and another Type S is being fitted with a BMW flat twin with a
belted redrive (gear) which should deliver 80 hp. with a propeller speed of
2500 rpm, or thereabouts, so propeller efficiency is high.
I understand that Gary Steadman www.Flitzer-Aero.com intends to improve on
an existing redrive for the basic Type III VW, which might be adaptable for
the BMW and others. The HCI radial motor (US) and other small engines such
as the Rotax 912 should provide a very good performance with the basic Z-21
Flitzer, as well as the Type S. A further developed Type S is the so-called
Type 'R'. which will be optimised for the superb Rotec R 2800 Fireball
radial engine of 110 hp (see this page) which, as it weighs 220 lbs,
requires some changes to the Type S airframe, including an increase in wing
area and other structural modifications to maintain the same aerobatic
reserve factors and wing loadings. One of these is under construction in
France, where the Praga-powered Type S is also well on the way to
completion. Bona fide Flitzer builders can benefit from a 20% discount on
the Rotec engine, through Gary Steadman, with full warrantees etc., if
certain requirements are fulfilled.
In Belgium, a new lightweight helicopter engine, the 'Masquito' motor, of
about 2800 cc, is about to be launched as a competitor to the 80-100 hp.
Jabiru engines, which are also suitable. The Masquito is apparently better
engineered, more powerful and much tougher than the Jab.
Virtually any small engine in the 60 -100 hp. category, provided that its
installed length is not excessive (which eliminates the relatively heavier
A65, C90 and most of the Lycomings) will apply. Even an A65 with the
accessories removed from the rear case, and fitted with a lightweight
electronic ignition system might work for the Z-21 (with the re-positioned
firewall bulkhead), the Type S, or the Z-2 two-seat Flitzer derivative, a
prototype of which is now under construction. A later example of this
variant might be fitted with the Rotec R2800.
Note that Gary Steadman can supply high quality timber kits for the
Flitzers, and that laser cut parts will be available for the Z-21 soon from
the UK, with the fuselage fittings having been completed so far. Gary also
hopes to be in a position to launch a complete kitplane, the Z-1 Type K
Goblin, which kit will ultimately also include a new 5-cylinder radial
engine, also in kit form. This engine would also retrospectively fit any of
the single-seat Flitzer models.
I hope this information is helpful.
Sincerely,
Lynn Williams
----
---
File has not been scanned
Message 12
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| Subject: | Landing gear reinforcement straps |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Clif,
I found your entry on mykitplane.com, but didn't find your chart. I will
agree that taking a (nominally) elliptical lift profile into account, the
inner half of the wing will be providing more lift than the outer half.
Doing the math, I get about 61% if the lift struts attach exactly half way
from the cabanes to the wingtips. This assumes that the center section
doesn't do anything in particular, probably a good assumption if you have a
cutout or a radiator.
Assuming that the wing pivots about the lift struts, this puts about 22% of
the total load on the cabanes, or around 110 lb on each side at 1000 lb
gross. Pick your favorite load ratio between front and rear spars, but
we're still not talking large loads here.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: clif [mailto:cdawson5854@shaw.ca]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
I've added a chart of wing loads on
a wing from the center to the tip in my
picture file on www.mykitplane.com
It's #21-second page-Clif Dawson's pics.
It's a generic chart using percent of distance
out from the center related to the percent of
total span load. In other words, the innermost
20% of the wing area handles the load
percentage listed in the boxs below it. each
% area has three boxes below it representing
three different aspect ratios. The top line,
AR=6, is the one to use for the piet wing.
You can see from this that the outer area of
the wing carries considerably less load than
the inner. This means that the cabane struts
are absolutely necessary!
Even on a one piece wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@charter.net>
>
> Gene,
>
> The mechanical engineers say here on the piet list that the one piece wing
> really does not need the cabanes at all except to stabilize the wing when
> the spars are in compression much like the jury struts stablize the wing
> struts. The wing area outboard of the wing struts is equal to the area
> inboard so the up lift outboard causes the inboard to deflect down but
this
> is countered by the inboard lift force up which is countered by....well
you
> know the rest.
>
> Look at the wing as a column. If you pull G's, then the straps are trying
> to move closer to the cabane/wing joint, putting the fuselage sides and
the
> cabanes in compression. Obviously with the increased G's, the wing is
> lifting that much harder and the fuselage weight is pulling down away from
> the cabane/wing joint. The wing strut attach points at the wing are
trying
> to move toward one another putting the wing spars between the wing strut
> attach fittings, wing to wing, in compression. The wing section is fairly
> thin and the 20:1 max slenderness ratio rule comes into play. The spars
> become axially loaded columns with a deflection.
>
> Think of your leg in a cast vs. having a flexible knee joint. A column
with
> a pinned joint half way along its length has to behave substantially
> different from a solid column with no joint, especially when it is being
> deflected.
>
> The pinned joint on the multiple piece wing changes things, right?
>
> Amateur engineer still learning,
>
> chris bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hubbard,
> Eugene
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
>
> Chris,
>
> I don't see that the one-piece wing can possibly be stiff enough to affect
> the cabane and lift strut loading ratios. My reasoning is that I have no
> doubt that I could, with hand pressure, flex the one-piece wing with the
> cabane struts removed such that the distance between atatch points changes
> measurably. This is really a crude way of establishing a Young's modulus
of
> maybe a few hundred to a thousand pounds per inch of displacement.
> Similarly, I cannot imagine, under any circumstances, changing the length
of
> the cabane struts in a similar way. This strongly suggests that any force
> on the cabane attach points will be taken up by the struts long before the
> stiffness of the wing itself becomes a factor, and that attach point
> stresses should be nearly identical between one and three-piece wings.
>
> I totally agree with your other comments though, that the bottom of the
> fuselage is always in tension, and that force on the cabanes, whether
> tension or compression, is minimal.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
>
> _
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Flitzer attachments |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
If anybody wants the Flitzer attachments, let me know and I will send them
to you.
This plane is built exactly like the piet and has the same appeal.
How would an A powered one look?
chris bobka
Message 14
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<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Does anyone know the impedance of the microphone used in general aviation headsets?
I want to hook one up to use in the mortorcycle helmet I use in my ultralight.
Motorcycle headset microphones will not work. I called the manufacturer
of my radio (Sportys) and they will not tell me.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: mike impedance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Wayne,
I know there is a homebuilt electronic project for this, the parts are
bought from Radio Shack and fitted inside a photo roll plastic box...
I read it some weeks ago, but as the electronic projects are not my
choise, I dont remember what I did with it. It can be done easyly.
In fact was designed to use the home Stereo headsets for a pasenger (in
fact no microphone) to hear the radio and at the same time as ear
protection. Was in another list, I will ask around.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Wayne McIntosh <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh"
> <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
>
> Does anyone know the impedance of the microphone used in general
> aviation headsets? I want to hook one up to use in the mortorcycle
> helmet I use in my ultralight. Motorcycle headset microphones will
> not work. I called the manufacturer of my radio (Sportys) and they
> will not tell me.
> Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: mike impedance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Huizenga's" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Try RST Engineering
I think it is
http://www.rst-eng.com
Kirk
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
>Wayne,
>
>I know there is a homebuilt electronic project for this, the parts are
>bought from Radio Shack and fitted inside a photo roll plastic box...
>
>I read it some weeks ago, but as the electronic projects are not my
>choise, I dont remember what I did with it. It can be done easyly.
>
>In fact was designed to use the home Stereo headsets for a pasenger (in
>fact no microphone) to hear the radio and at the same time as ear
>protection. Was in another list, I will ask around.
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>
>--- Wayne McIntosh <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com> wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh"
>> <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
>>
>> Does anyone know the impedance of the microphone used in general
>> aviation headsets? I want to hook one up to use in the mortorcycle
>> helmet I use in my ultralight. Motorcycle headset microphones will
>> not work. I called the manufacturer of my radio (Sportys) and they
>> will not tell me.
>> Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
>>
>>
>>
>> _->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
Message 17
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>
| Subject: | FW: Worthy item for To Fly! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Re: Worthy item for To Fly!
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the emails and suggestions, Chris.
Note I've made a typographical mistake on the number of innocents who died
of famine in Ukraine. That should be ten million (10,000,000) not 10,000!
By all means use whatever I've sent you in any article. It'll all help the
cause! Note that the construction of the Flitzers is not identical to the
Pietenpol, although there are similarities. It was the old Flitzer 'Type 1'
tailplane and fin/rudder of the prototype Z-1 (Z-21) which was structurally
almost identical to the Piet. Later versions are simplified and further
stiffened, while the basic Z-21 fuselage is entirely ply-covered, unike the
Piet's, although several of the sub-types do have fabric-covered
rear-fuselages.
Both the early and the later versions of the various tailgroups are also
shown on the drawings, for reference, being clearly marked, with
explanations of their evolution included. Indeed one sheet shows almost the
whole evolution of the Z-series to date.
I attach another picture of a Flitzer practice drop from Dz.1 over the River
Vistula, in 'January 1926'.
The essence of the Flitzer is a lightweight, strong, and simple design
philosophy, which was the hallmark of great lightplane designs, like Jack D.
Irwin's Meteorplanes, the Lincoln Sport, and others that were the triggers.
With that tradition, comes the retro-look, which befits this unashamed
contemporary 'classic', and a lightness of control, together with stability
and easy manoeuvrability, which makes you want to just go and fly it again
and again!
Cheers,
Lynn Williams
PS. I can scan you other articles, if you'd like.
---
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: mike impedance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Ask Mel Sorton in West Lafayette. Tell him Cy sent you. 765-743-2936
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mike impedance
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh"
<mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
>
> Does anyone know the impedance of the microphone used in general aviation
headsets? I want to hook one up to use in the mortorcycle helmet I use in my
ultralight. Motorcycle headset microphones will not work. I called the
manufacturer of my radio (Sportys) and they will not tell me.
> Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: I'm a little bugged |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
Walter,
Your Builders log can be only a day's date and a brief comment of what was
done that day. Do not go into details. It is not necessary. You can
take your pictures and use them to refresh yourself and keep it very brief.
The purpose of the log is to show that YOU did the work and not a hired gun.
I plans built an RV-3 and kit built an RV-6 and this is what I did for the
DAR inspection.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm a little bugged
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
>
> Walter,
>
> Think of it this way: Your photos aren't "as good as a log" they ARE a
log.
> I'm sure you've arranged them sequentially, and put them in an album.
They
> show what you did, and when you did it. What else can they ask for?
>
> Gene Hubbard
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: mike impedance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Cy, Chris, & Gary
Thanks I have e-mailed RST and Mel was not home, I will call after
Christmas.
Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: mike impedance
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Ask Mel Sorton in West Lafayette. Tell him Cy sent you. 765-743-2936
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>; <CorvAircraft@mailinglists.org>;
> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: mike impedance
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh"
> <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know the impedance of the microphone used in general
aviation
> headsets? I want to hook one up to use in the mortorcycle helmet I use in
my
> ultralight. Motorcycle headset microphones will not work. I called the
> manufacturer of my radio (Sportys) and they will not tell me.
> > Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear reinforcement straps |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
For some strange reason I took the one
piece, center to strut distance as the
number for the 3 piece, makes a big
difference. Look twice, calc. once to
parody the prime directive. So the load
difference is quite small. Now about that
60 degree bank...and gust loads, etc.?
The chart pic is on the second page of
my picture file. I just checked, it's there.
Down to the bottom and press "next 20".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear reinforcement straps
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
>
> Clif,
>
> I found your entry on mykitplane.com, but didn't find your chart. I will
> agree that taking a (nominally) elliptical lift profile into account, the
> inner half of the wing will be providing more lift than the outer half.
> Doing the math, I get about 61% if the lift struts attach exactly half way
> from the cabanes to the wingtips. This assumes that the center section
> doesn't do anything in particular, probably a good assumption if you have
a
> cutout or a radiator.
>
> Assuming that the wing pivots about the lift struts, this puts about 22%
of
> the total load on the cabanes, or around 110 lb on each side at 1000 lb
> gross. Pick your favorite load ratio between front and rear spars, but
> we're still not talking large loads here.
>
>
>
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